running, runneen, or runnin'

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Rom
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running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Rom » 2005-10-22, 16:46

Which one do you say? Do you actually say -ing or does it come out as -een or -in'?

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Kirk » 2005-10-22, 21:25

Rom wrote:Which one do you say? Do you actually say -ing or does it come out as -een or -in'?


If I'm using the [ŋ] form it tends to come out more like [ˈɹʌniŋ] since in my dialect my front vowels raise before [ŋ]. However, the [n] form comes out as [ˈɹʌnɪn], since there is no [ŋ] to raise the vowel.
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Rom » 2005-10-22, 22:02

Kirk wrote:
Rom wrote:Which one do you say? Do you actually say -ing or does it come out as -een or -in'?


If I'm using the [ŋ] form it tends to come out more like [ˈɹʌniŋ] since in my dialect my front vowels raise before [ŋ]. However, the [n] form comes out as [ˈɹʌnɪn], since there is no [ŋ] to raise the vowel.

Interesting. In the Pacific NW we don't have the [ŋ] sound at all except in 1 syllable words (like sing or king). We also don't have [ˈɹʌnɪn]. It's always pronounced [ˈɹʌnin] (if that's the correct transcription of "runneen". All 2 syllable words that end in -ing are pronounced -een.

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Kirk » 2005-10-22, 22:38

Rom wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Rom wrote:Which one do you say? Do you actually say -ing or does it come out as -een or -in'?


If I'm using the [ŋ] form it tends to come out more like [ˈɹʌniŋ] since in my dialect my front vowels raise before [ŋ]. However, the [n] form comes out as [ˈɹʌnɪn], since there is no [ŋ] to raise the vowel.

Interesting. In the Pacific NW we don't have the [ŋ] sound at all except in 1 syllable words (like sing or king). We also don't have [ˈɹʌnɪn]. It's always pronounced [ˈɹʌnin] (if that's the correct transcription of "runneen". All 2 syllable words that end in -ing are pronounced -een.


Interesting. I still would find it hard to believe some people didn't use [ŋ] in a word like "running" some of the time. What vowel do you have in "king" and "sing," by the way? I have [i] in those, while I have [ɪ] in "kin" and "sin." It's interesting you bring up this issue as on a couple other forums I've come across discussions dealing with front-vowel raising in (Western) North American dialects. I made a nifty chart based on my speech compared to a friend I have who's originally from Washington state and General American.
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Gormur » 2005-10-22, 23:00

Rom wrote:Which one do you say?


ing

Do you actually say -ing?


Yep

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Kirk » 2005-10-22, 23:01

Gormur wrote:
Rom wrote:Which one do you say?


ing

Do you actually say -ing?


Yep


I'm curious, Gormur, do you have the same (or very similar) vowel in the pair "keen/king" or the pair "kin/king?"
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Gormur » 2005-10-22, 23:04

Kirk wrote:I'm curious, Gormur, do you have the same (or very similar) vowel in the pair "keen/king" or the pair "kin/king?"


Hm, I just recorded it, and I believe it's the former ("keen/king"). Either that, or it's something between the two. I'm trying to record a sample here...I'm quite slow and I've been busy. Hopefully I'll have something up very soon-like. :)

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Postby Rom » 2005-10-22, 23:20

Click here
I recorded myself saying these words:
walking
talking
going
sing
sin
length
king
kin
tenth
bang
Ann can
anchor
income
ink

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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-22, 23:25

Interesting, Rom. Which program are you using to record the files, if I may ask? I'm having a bit of trouble with mine.

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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-10-22, 23:33

I also say the -ing.
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Rom
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Postby Rom » 2005-10-22, 23:54

Gormur wrote:Interesting, Rom. Which program are you using to record the files, if I may ask? I'm having a bit of trouble with mine.

I'm using sndrec32. If you're still having trouble with it, you can use the free telephone-to-email service, and then I can upload the file to my web host. To use the telephone-to-email service just call Image and leave a message of whatever you want recorded, and after you finish saying your message dial 41 (my email number), and then hang up and that will automatically send your message as an email attachment to me, and then I'll upload it.

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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby ZombiekE » 2005-10-23, 0:28

Kirk wrote:
Rom wrote:Which one do you say? Do you actually say -ing or does it come out as -een or -in'?


If I'm using the [ŋ] form it tends to come out more like [ˈɹʌniŋ] since in my dialect my front vowels raise before [ŋ]. However, the [n] form comes out as [ˈɹʌnɪn], since there is no [ŋ] to raise the vowel.


I think I use those too. Is your dialect very spread in the media? Music, series, films?
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Re: running, runneen, or runnin'

Postby Rom » 2005-10-23, 0:50

ZombiekE wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Rom wrote:Which one do you say? Do you actually say -ing or does it come out as -een or -in'?


If I'm using the [ŋ] form it tends to come out more like [ˈɹʌniŋ] since in my dialect my front vowels raise before [ŋ]. However, the [n] form comes out as [ˈɹʌnɪn], since there is no [ŋ] to raise the vowel.


I think I use those too. Is your dialect very spread in the media? Music, series, films?

He's from California, so yeah, it's the most popular film accent.

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Postby Stan » 2005-10-23, 1:09

walking = walkin'
talking = talkin'
going = goin'
if I was President,
I'd get elected on Friday
assassinated on Saturday
buried on Sunday

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Postby Kirk » 2005-10-23, 1:23

Rom wrote:Click here
I recorded myself saying these words:
walking
talking
going
sing
sin
length
king
kin
tenth
bang
Ann can
anchor
income
ink


Cool recording, Rom! It appears you also have some front-vowel raising before /ŋ/. For instance, your vowel is higher and more tense (towards [i]) in "king" as compared to your lax and lower [ɪ] in "sin." Interestingly, you raise "length," as expected, but more to [i] than to [e], which is what I raise it to (non-raising dialects have [ɛ] in "length," meaning they have the same vowel in "tenth" and "length").

From the recording it's kind of hard to hear if you have [n] or [ŋ] at the end of the "-ing" words (as verbs), but your vowel seems to be closer to [i] in those as well. My guess would be that even if you weren't using [ŋ] there, the underlying form is /ŋ/, and since you raise that vowel before it, then you'll still raise it even if it comes out as [n] in those words. This explains why you'd have a different vowel in "runnin'" and "sin."

Gormur wrote:
Kirk wrote:I'm curious, Gormur, do you have the same (or very similar) vowel in the pair "keen/king" or the pair "kin/king?"


Hm, I just recorded it, and I believe it's the former ("keen/king"). Either that, or it's something between the two. I'm trying to record a sample here...I'm quite slow and I've been busy. Hopefully I'll have something up very soon-like.


Cool--yeah I'm not surprised since you're originally from here, and front-vowel raising before /ŋ/ is common here. Many people (which don't have this form of raising) have the same or nearly the same vowel in "kin/king" as compared to "keen/king" which rhyme here (but this phenomenon is obviously not exclusive to California, as Rom's examples show. Also, I know some other North Americans have at least some front-vowel raising before /ŋ/ but also many don't).

Rom wrote:
ZombiekE wrote:I think I use those too. Is your dialect very spread in the media? Music, series, films?


He's from California, so yeah, it's the most popular film accent.


Yeah I think that's true. Of course a lot of people come to California to make movies who aren't originally from California but it is true that California speech is widely heard in broadcasting, whether on radio, TV, or movies.
Image
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Rom » 2005-10-23, 1:57

I wonder where the person who sings the theme for "Star Trek: Enterprise" comes from. He says "strinth" (not stringth) for "strength". ("I've got strength of the soul..." or something like that.) I used to know someone who used this pronunciation, and linth for length, but I could never figure out where she was from. She also said "pitcher" for "picture".

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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-23, 2:36

Rom wrote:
Gormur wrote:Interesting, Rom. Which program are you using to record the files, if I may ask? I'm having a bit of trouble with mine.

I'm using sndrec32. If you're still having trouble with it, you can use the free telephone-to-email service, and then I can upload the file to my web host. To use the telephone-to-email service just call Image and leave a message of whatever you want recorded, and after you finish saying your message dial 41 (my email number), and then hang up and that will automatically send your message as an email attachment to me, and then I'll upload it.


Thanks for the help, Rom. I may indeed try that method as I'm able to record but the sound is all distorted. I checked Microsoft to see what they said, and all they suggested was to check the volume on the back of the tower (which is non-existent on my PC anyway) and in the Volume Control mixer.

Thanks again.


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