Monterey Arabish: A new dialect of English

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Tom K.
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Monterey Arabish: A new dialect of English

Postby Tom K. » 2005-09-28, 17:18

I suppose it's inevitable: you get a bunch of people together who are all studying the same language, and little bits of that language are going to start appearing in the way they speak their native language. Hang around some DLI Arabic students in Monterey for a while and you're bound to hear exchanges like this:

"Who has cash?" "Ana." (Ana = I)
"There's 12 feet of water fy New Orleans." (fy = in)
"How was class break?" "Jayid jidden." (very good)
"I finally made Phase IV, al hamdu li-lah." (praise be to God)
"I can't pay attention to people singing Karaoke. Walakin, you picked a good song." (walakin = but)

I overheard someone saying the other day he was talking to his mother on the phone, said "jayid jidden" without really thinking about it, and his mother of course could only say "huh?" Other words that have crept into our English include "shukran" (thank you), "mumtaz" (excellent), "limatha?" (why?), "mumkin" (maybe), "tayyib" (OK), "in shah allah" (God willing), "ma salaama," (goodbye), the greetings "marhaban" and "ahlan wa sahlan," and of course "naam" (yes) and "la" (no), and probably lots of other stuff that I can't think of now.

People studying other languages probably also do this too, but I haven't heard much. I asked some Korean students about it and they said they don't do that with Korean because "we hate Korean!" (apparently people find Korean too frustrating) However, I asked some Chinese students and they said they do the same thing with Chinese we do with Arabic. They call it "Chinglish." I wonder if anyone speaks "Farsish" or "Darish" around here?
Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.

icx

Postby icx » 2005-09-28, 19:39

Sometimes i do the same thing, but with Spanish, French, Esperanto, English or Romanian. :lol: It's fun and improves my languages. ;)

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Postby Rounin » 2005-09-28, 20:58

I often have to jokingly tell people that I expect anyone I talk to to know a little bit of Japanese. Even with languages that different, I suppose it's impossible to keep them entirely separate in one's mind.

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Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2005-09-29, 18:03

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Last edited by Quetzalcoatl on 2012-02-06, 15:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Alcadras » 2005-09-29, 19:17

i sometimes speak english and finnish(to improve) and my family stare at me :D

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Postby Stan » 2005-09-29, 19:56

I speak Spanglish :P
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Postby bebo » 2005-09-30, 3:09

Were i live there is a large mexican population so sometimes out of no were one of my freinds will say something like donde me pluma and me a the other people have no earthly idea what they meen[/quote]

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Postby Lee » 2005-09-30, 7:43

I speak Indonesish occasionally. Often I think about the Indonesian equivalent of a word so much it pops into my mind before an English one, and sometimes Indonesian learners become confused as to the spelling of some English words that have been borrowed by Indonesian, e.g. popular/populer, traditional/tradisional etc. With my Chinglish, I'm used to using the Chinese word for some things so much (e.g. cloth) that you see me pause for about a second, trying to remember the word in English. :D
言葉にならいない気持ち

icx

Postby icx » 2005-09-30, 17:45

Stan wrote:I speak Spanglish :P


:lol:

In this case, i speak Frospenglish :lol: [Fr, Ro, Eo, En] :lol:

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Postby Gormur » 2005-09-30, 18:40

Stan wrote:I speak Spanglish :P


When I attempt Spanish, I sometimes use Spanglish words, since they're printed all over in my area. Nowaydays, it's changing though...less and less Spanglish, because Mexico is taking over again. :lol:

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Postby Stan » 2005-09-30, 21:38

bebo wrote:Were i live there is a large mexican population so sometimes out of no were one of my freinds will say something like donde me pluma and me a the other people have no earthly idea what they meen
[/quote]

you mean "¿dónde está mi pluma?"

it means "where is my pen?"
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Postby ZombiekE » 2005-10-01, 0:17

No offence, but I personally hate Spanglish, I think it's ridiculous xD

People who are Spanish speaking use English words in Spanish because they don't know their own language well enough or just because they think English is any cooler than Spanish. I try to separate both languages as much as I can.

The funniest thing is that many people who use it are from Mexico, and I don't know if they are aware of the opinions many Americans may have about them. However, they try to be as much English-speaking as they can be. It's more of a desperate "I-wanna-be-American-because-the-American-dream-is-so-cool" than it may seem at first.

Spanish is a very rich language, and it doesn't need so many loan words except in some fields like IT or business.

I don't find annoying English speaking people who use Spanish words in their sentences as in this case, I'm sure it's most of times their choice as Spanish isn't the number one language in the world, they're likely to know the English word, and they are not trying to be "cool" people by doing it, they're not trying to pretend they're somebody else.
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Postby Stan » 2005-10-01, 0:27

ZombiekE wrote:No offence, but I personally hate Spanglish, I think it's ridiculous xD

People who are Spanish speaking use English words in Spanish because they don't know their own language well enough or just because they think English is any cooler than Spanish. I try to separate both languages as much as I can.

The funniest thing is that many people who use it are from Mexico, and I don't know if they are aware of the opinions many Americans may have about them. However, they try to be as much English-speaking as they can be. It's more of a desperate "I-wanna-be-American-because-the-American-dream-is-so-cool" than it may seem at first.

Spanish is a very rich language, and it doesn't need so many loan words except in some fields like IT or business.

I don't find annoying English speaking people who use Spanish words in their sentences as in this case, I'm sure it's most of times their choice as Spanish isn't the number one language in the world, they're likely to know the English word, and they are not trying to be "cool" people by doing it, they're not trying to pretend they're somebody else.


I have heard things like:
"un party"
"todos los weekends" (in a song)

have you heard these, amigo? :wink:

as for English, I hope it gets more Spanish loanwords. :P
if I was President,

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buried on Sunday

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Postby ZombiekE » 2005-10-01, 0:57

Actually, most Spaniglish we get comes from Latin American soap operas. Especially in those where the characters are wealthy people from Latin America who move to the US.

We use the word "party" for events in which people bring their own PC's and connect them to a LAN. I don't know if people from Latin America use "party" for that too. We have no word for that, but we don't use it for "fiesta".

We don't use "weekend" either. I think I heard it once in an advertisement on TV, but just there.
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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-01, 4:58

ZombiekE wrote: Spanish isn't the number one language in the world, they're likely to know the English word, and they are not trying to be "cool" people by doing it, they're not trying to pretend they're somebody else.


There are more native Spanish speakers in my city than English speakers by far. Everything is advertised in both Spanish and English, or only Spanish.

Spanglish isn't common where I live, but I have encountered it.

Castillian Spanish still uses loans from English, just in different ways. I have a list of those words somewhere...

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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-01, 5:29

ZombiekE wrote:The funniest thing is that many people who use it are from Mexico, and I don't know if they are aware of the opinions many Americans may have about them. However, they try to be as much English-speaking as they can be. It's more of a desperate "I-wanna-be-American-because-the-American-dream-is-so-cool" than it may seem at first.


Nah, more Venezuelans are like that. Everyone I know from there uses a form of Spanglish sentences like

"Hey, what's up? Voy al Mall para comprar jeans"

"Ah, es cool. No puedo ir contigo porque tengo que ir al gym. See you later!"


Ok, my Spanish sucks, but that's just a basic conversation of typical Venezuelan Spanish. I've heard much stranger things, to be sure... My old gf from Caracas said everything is printed in English in the capital: signs, buildings, lots of American and European media coming in, etc.

Anyway, I don't know of any people who fit the stereotype you mention. They must be like displaced immigrants in North Dakota or Maine or something. :lol:

There are Mexicans everywhere throughout the States. There are quite a few even in the midwest and on the east coast now as well, not to mention all of the Cubans, Ecuadorians, and Domincans living there. Spanish-speaking "Latinos" (I don't like this word, but don't know what else to use) are one of the least assimilating groups after Chinese. Perhaps Amish is the least assimilating. :lol:

I think if they were so "assimilant" then we wouldn't have everything printed bilingually in Spanish and English so as to accommodate them. :wink:

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Postby Strigo » 2005-10-01, 5:39

I've heard "partuza" in here :P
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Postby ExtraTerrestre » 2005-10-01, 5:55

Io falo portaliano :lol:
[I speak "Portalian"]
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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-01, 6:59

How about Portunol? I've heard some media in it before.

I found this:

Portuñol heard more often in Brazil
Portuñol, a mixture of Spanish and Portuguese, is being used more and more in Brazil, much as Spanglish is frequently used in the United States. One example of popular usage is sugo, a combination of the Spanish jugo and the Portuguese suco, both of which mean "juice." Brazilian leaders don't seem particularly concerned about the mixture of languages, saying that if anything it is symbolic of efforts by Brazil to integrate itself more completely with the rest of Latin America. Read more (in Spanish)... (Source: Reuters)


I know it's mainly (or officially) spoken in the frontier towns of Uruguay and Brazil. I've heard it on a radio station. I'll have to find it again...

Here's what wiki lists for Portuguese dialects and creoles:

Cape Verde:

Crioulo Barlavento (Criol)
Crioulo Sotavento (Kriolu)
Equatorial Guinea:

Falar de Ano Bom
Guinea-Bissau and Senegal:

Crioulo da Guiné (Kriol)
India:

Creole of Diu
Creole of Vaipim
Kristi
Língua da Casa
Macau, China:

Macaista
Malaysia, Singapore:

Papiá Kristang
Netherlands Antilles and Aruba:

Papiamento
São Tomé and Principe:

Angolar
Forro
Lunguyê
Sri Lanka:

Burgher
Suriname:

Saramacano
Some hybrid dialects came to exist after an interaction with Spanish:

A Fala — Spain
Barranquenho — Portugal
Portuñol — Uruguay, Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina


Languages for Uruguay quoted from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americ ... 229360.stm -

Major languages: Spanish, Portunol or Brazilero (Portuguese-Spanish mix)



P.S. - was the author of the thread talking about Llanito? Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanito

For Spanglish, a basic intro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanglish

I even have a Spanglish dictionary somewhere around here... :lol:

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Re: Monterey Arabish: A new dialect of English

Postby Gormur » 2005-10-01, 7:16

Tom K. wrote:I suppose it's inevitable: you get a bunch of people together who are all studying the same language, and little bits of that language are going to start appearing in the way they speak their native language. Hang around some DLI Arabic students in Monterey for a while and you're bound to hear exchanges like this:

"Who has cash?" "Ana." (Ana = I)
"There's 12 feet of water fy New Orleans." (fy = in)
"How was class break?" "Jayid jidden." (very good)
"I finally made Phase IV, al hamdu li-lah." (praise be to God)
"I can't pay attention to people singing Karaoke. Walakin, you picked a good song." (walakin = but)

I overheard someone saying the other day he was talking to his mother on the phone, said "jayid jidden" without really thinking about it, and his mother of course could only say "huh?" Other words that have crept into our English include "shukran" (thank you), "mumtaz" (excellent), "limatha?" (why?), "mumkin" (maybe), "tayyib" (OK), "in shah allah" (God willing), "ma salaama," (goodbye), the greetings "marhaban" and "ahlan wa sahlan," and of course "naam" (yes) and "la" (no), and probably lots of other stuff that I can't think of now.

People studying other languages probably also do this too, but I haven't heard much. I asked some Korean students about it and they said they don't do that with Korean because "we hate Korean!" (apparently people find Korean too frustrating) However, I asked some Chinese students and they said they do the same thing with Chinese we do with Arabic. They call it "Chinglish." I wonder if anyone speaks "Farsish" or "Darish" around here?


You can listen to a charicature of Icelandic-Canadian speech here: http://servefir.ruv.is/vesturfarar/e/SamGuttorm.html

Norwegian-American dialects (with audio): http://ruff.hiof.no/~arnstein/noriam.htm


I can't understand much of the Norwegian of these people. Too much dialect and strange English borrowings.

Pertaining to the question: I don't mix English into Norwegian (am very conscious), but I have mixed Norwegian in with English after a long holiday at home or in ND. Just minor things though, nothing serious...


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