The English of England.

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Travis B.
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Postby Travis B. » 2005-08-20, 10:32

greg-fr wrote:And of course anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes) and Anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes) also refer to the real (medieval) Anglo-Saxons...

Travis B. : what does Al diin basis is to us gehören! mean in IG ?


I knew someone'd ask me that at some point. It is basically my realization of "All your base are belong to us!" in Tviskengermaansk (IG), and, just like that off which it is modeled is very bad English, it is not grammatical Tviskengermaansk either. The grammatical Tviskengermaansk equivalent would be "Al diin basissen gehöör to us!", equivalent to "All your bases belong to us!" in English.
secretGeek on CodingHorror wrote:Type inference is not a gateway drug to more dynamically typed languages.

Rather "var" is a gateway drug toward "real" type inferencing, of which var is but a tiny cigarette to the greater crack mountain!

Travis B.
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Postby Travis B. » 2005-08-20, 10:40

MikeL wrote:But I like Scots, and (some) Irish, and Cockney, and most American varieties (some southern ones don't do it for me, though). And as for Strine...


Here's a random little question, but when you say "Scots" here, do you mean Scottish English, or are you truly referring to Scots (no, not Scots Gaelic) proper per se here?
secretGeek on CodingHorror wrote:Type inference is not a gateway drug to more dynamically typed languages.

Rather "var" is a gateway drug toward "real" type inferencing, of which var is but a tiny cigarette to the greater crack mountain!

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Postby ZombiekE » 2005-08-20, 12:37

Travis B. wrote:Travis B. : what does Al diin basis is to us gehören! mean in IG ?


[OFFTOPIC] WE HAVE AN AYBIBTU

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB

[/OFFTOPIC]
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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-08-20, 16:46

MikeL wrote:
reflexsilver86 wrote: Received Pronunciation is indeed very nice to listen to.


Hmmm... This is an interesting idea. The aesthetics (or esthetics) of pronunciation... How can any judgment do more than reflect the prejudice of the speaker? There is no "neutral", unaccented English to which any particular pronunciation can be compared. And how can I know what my accent "sounds like" to someone from the Bronx, or Lancashire, or Jamaica?
FWIW, I am prejudiced against the variety of RP spoken by the Royal Family: those back "a"s, those tortured triphthongs, the diphthongs trying so hard to be mono... Makes me cringe...
But I like Scots, and (some) Irish, and Cockney, and most American varieties (some southern ones don't do it for me, though). And as for Strine...
But all this has absolutely nothing to do with linguistics.


Because everyone thinks different things sound good, basically it's all a matter of opinion. Like music. And everyone knows how diverse musical tastes are.

Anyway, this is why linguists declare no one accent or dialect is better than the other, because as you see here, people's opinions diverge wildly on the matter.
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Postby shri420 » 2005-08-21, 0:39

Just for the record, all of my negative comments have been made in jest. I didn’t think for one moment that my posts would be taken seriously or be allowed to remain in this forum.

It really makes no difference which variety of English you learn; they are all very much the same.

All varieties of English are equally fine vehicles for communication. No particular variety of English or accent is nicer or better than any other.

Indeed The English language has been greatly enriched by its minor differences. The truth is I actually prefer other varieties of English.

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Postby Kirk » 2005-08-21, 2:22

Travis B. wrote:
greg-fr wrote:And of course anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes) and Anglo-saxon(s)(ne)(nes) also refer to the real (medieval) Anglo-Saxons...

Travis B. : what does Al diin basis is to us gehören! mean in IG ?


I knew someone'd ask me that at some point. It is basically my realization of "All your base are belong to us!" in Tviskengermaansk (IG), and, just like that off which it is modeled is very bad English, it is not grammatical Tviskengermaansk either. The grammatical Tviskengermaansk equivalent would be "Al diin basissen gehöör to us!", equivalent to "All your bases belong to us!" in English.


Not to boast but I understood the IG meaning of it right away ;) But it did greatly help that I already knew the context behind it--otherwise I would've been lost. Very clever, Travis! In fact, I award you 20 clever points.

Since this topic seems to be touching on prescriptivism vs. descriptivism, I thought I'd mention a little post I just made at lingcafé. There was a thread there started by a guy wanting to know what "mistakes" native English speakers make so of course it got into the whole prescriptivism discussion. I was one of a few descriptivist stalwarts in the topic but I got tired of arguing to unyielding ears/eyes, so in the end I just decided (mostly in jest) that the title of the thread should really be renamed something having to do with prescriptivism, as that's the prevailing opinion there at this point. Here's a few of the prescriptivist slogans I came up with (more on the real thread):


"Prescriptivism. I don't speak strangely. You do."

"Think Social Darwinism is still a fresh and viable concept? You'll love prescriptivism!"

"Prescriptivism. Arbitrary pickiness and unnatural usage since about 1753"

I don't normally shamelessly promote another forum like this, but I'd really like to see some other linguistics-oriented people's ideas for a slogan/title for the prescriptivist thread. My username is Kirk on that forum (my real name), just so you don't get confused.

Here's the thread. You can either post as a guest or sign up real fast and then post under a username (if you don't have one already). Once again, not to shamelessly draw attention to myself but I'd really like to see what other things people come up with!


:D
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I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

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Postby Stan » 2005-08-21, 2:49

what does "Wes þu hal! Ic hette Cirice" mean?
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Postby Kirk » 2005-08-21, 3:23

Stancel wrote:what does "Wes þu hal! Ic hette Cirice" mean?


it's Old English, and it means:

Wes þu hal=Hi (literally like "well to your health" or something like that)
Ic=I
hette=call (myself)...as in German 'heissen'

Cirice='church'. My real name is Kirk, which means "church." In Old English, "church" was 'cirice'.

'Kirk' is actually a Scots word (originally a Norse borrowing) but never mind that--and, plus, I wanted it to be Old English with no borrowings, so I made the relatively painless translation to Old English.

So...basically it's "hi! my name's Kirk" :)
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.

I eat prescriptivists for breakfast.

maɪ nemz kʰɜ˞kʰ n̩ aɪ laɪk̚ fɨˈnɛ̞ɾɪ̞ks

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Postby Ariki » 2005-08-21, 4:52

wow svenska84, I just read through some of the posts to the link you gave.

I was thinking to myself, hm, would it be appreciated by them if we told them in their native languages that native speakers of their language make mistakes? (notes that most of the people in the discussion were non-native English speakers....)

Prescriptivism is evil!
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

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Postby MikeL » 2005-08-21, 9:26

Travis B. wrote:
MikeL wrote:But I like Scots, and (some) Irish, and Cockney, and most American varieties (some southern ones don't do it for me, though). And as for Strine...


Here's a random little question, but when you say "Scots" here, do you mean Scottish English, or are you truly referring to Scots (no, not Scots Gaelic) proper per se here?


Scots, Scotch, Scottish - it's all the same to me...

But I was referrrring to the accent. Not the people - they're terrrible: dourrr, miserrrly, utterrrly devoid of any sense of humourrrr...

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Postby Jamie*On » 2005-10-06, 20:15

Mike L,

If you like the Scottish way of talking, you really have to read Filth or some other book by Irvine Welsh, he writes out the dialect and it varies from more or less standard English to really thick Scots, but if you don't like strong language, or depressing themes maybe you shouldn't read it. Here's some examples taken at random so you can see what I mean:

Toal's so intae his ain sh_t though, he's totally oblivious tae all this. The ring is his and he doesnae want tae spoil his own fun ...

Edingurgh Carole: ah want tae be oot thair beside ma mother.


That's from "Filth" - it's like this through the whole book.

Regards.

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Postby Karavinka » 2005-10-06, 20:29

There isn't such a thing called English. It's just a Britainnian French Creole! :D It's a mixture of French and some aboriginal language called Anglo-Saxon ;)
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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-07, 2:23

Old Saxon was the best variety of English. :wink:
All that rich Norse vocabulary before the French came in. :evil:

British English sounds better to my ears than American English. Either way, it doesn't make one variety better than the other.

My favorite conlang is Engrish. 8)

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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-07, 2:23

Old Saxon was the best variety of English. :wink:
All that rich Norse vocabulary before the French came in. :evil:

British English sounds better to my ears than American English. Either way, it doesn't make one variety better than the other.

My favorite conlang is Engrish. 8)

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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-07, 2:24

Old Saxon was the best variety of English. :wink:
All that rich Norse vocabulary before the French came in. :evil:

British English sounds better to my ears than American English. Either way, it doesn't make one variety better than the other.

My favorite conlang is Engrish, which I'm accused of speaking every now and again. 8)

icx

Postby icx » 2005-10-07, 13:41

Here in my school we learn British English :D.

But i still think the American one is more awesome. ;) Even though it's not as pure as the British one. :wink:

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Postby ZombiekE » 2005-10-07, 15:17

nokicx wrote:Here in my school we learn British English :D.

But i still think the American one is more awesome. ;) Even though it's not as pure as the British one. :wink:


I like how American English sounds but British English (RP specially) sounds very good too. Some American pronunciations often slip in my speech.
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Postby reflexsilver86 » 2005-10-07, 16:54

nokicx wrote:Here in my school we learn British English :D.

But i still think the American one is more awesome. ;) Even though it's not as pure as the British one. :wink:


It's kind of a misnomer to think that the British pronunciation (and which one of the many various accents are you referring to of course, I assume RP) is the "purest" especially since British English did not always sound like it does today.

I love British English of course (I also love the Australian accent) but one is not "purer" than the other.
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Postby Gormur » 2005-10-07, 17:26

In any case, most people learn American English.
Europe is the least populated continent (after Australia and Antarctica, of course). :wink:

icx

Postby icx » 2005-10-07, 17:41

reflexsilver86 wrote:
nokicx wrote:Here in my school we learn British English :D.

But i still think the American one is more awesome. ;) Even though it's not as pure as the British one. :wink:


It's kind of a misnomer to think that the British pronunciation (and which one of the many various accents are you referring to of course, I assume RP) is the "purest" especially since British English did not always sound like it does today.

I love British English of course (I also love the Australian accent) but one is not "purer" than the other.


:D I like [love] the Australian one too. :D


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