which Harry are we talking about?

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artart
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which Harry are we talking about?

Postby artart » 2021-03-24, 8:39

1) I am talking about the Harry who works at the hospital not the one who works at the library.
2) I am talking about Harry who works at the hospital not the one who works at the library.

3) I am talking about the Harry at the hospital not the one at the library.
4) I am talking about Harry at the hospital not the one at the library.

5) Harry at the hospital told me that, not the one who works at the library.
6) Harry, at the hospital, told me that, not the one who works at the library.

Which of the above are grammatical and meaningful?
Which are idiomatic?

azhong

Re: which Harry are we talking about?

Postby azhong » 2021-03-24, 16:11

May I try first, so that I can practice together and share some loading?
artart wrote:1) I am talking about the Harry who works at the hospital, not the one who works at the library.
2) I am talking about the Harry who works at the hospital, not the one who works at the library.

3) I am talking about the Harry at the hospital, not the one at the library.
4) I am talking about the Harry at the hospital, not the one at the library.

5) The Harry who works at the hospital told me that, not the one who works at the library.
6)Harry, the one who works at the hospital but not the one who works at the library, told me that.

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Woods
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Re: which Harry are we talking about?

Postby Woods » 2021-03-26, 10:29

artart wrote:1) I am talking about the Harry who works at the hospital not the one who works at the library.
2) I am talking about Harry who works at the hospital not the one who works at the library.

3) I am talking about the Harry at the hospital not the one at the library.
4) I am talking about Harry at the hospital not the one at the library.

5) Harry at the hospital told me that, not the one who works at the library.
6) Harry, at the hospital, told me that, not the one who works at the library.

Which of the above are grammatical and meaningful?
Which are idiomatic?

1 & 2 are fine, not sure about 3.

4, 5 & 6 are not clear.

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linguoboy
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Re: which Harry are we talking about?

Postby linguoboy » 2021-03-27, 1:28

(Native speaker of American English here.)
artart wrote:1) I am talking about the Harry who works at the hospital not the one who works at the library.
2) I am talking about Harry who works at the hospital not the one who works at the library.

3) I am talking about the Harry at the hospital not the one at the library.
4) I am talking about Harry at the hospital not the one at the library.

5) Harry at the hospital told me that, not the one who works at the library.
6) Harry, at the hospital, told me that, not the one who works at the library.

Which of the above are grammatical and meaningful?
Which are idiomatic?

They all sound grammatical and unambiguously meaningful to me. (There are two persons named Harry--one at the hospital and one at the library--both known to the listener, and in all cases the speaker is specifying they're talking about person named Harry who works or is at the hospital.)

Stylistically, (1) sounds better than (2) and (3) than (4), both for the same reason (parallel structure), but none of these sentences sounds unidiomatic. (5) is better than (6), since "at the hospital" is restrictive, not incidental. But I don't perceive any difference in meaning between the sentences; (6) just looks like it was written by someone who doesn't understand prescriptive comma usage in English.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

azhong

Re: which Harry are we talking about?

Postby azhong » 2021-03-27, 3:23

Why are both "the Henry" and "Henry" acceptable? I remember I was told (d) is more natural than (c) because there is a qualifying phrase "of the dead".
c. "That man claims he talks to ghosts of the dead."
d. "That man claims he talks to the ghosts of the dead."

Isn't here also a qualifying phrase: "working at the hospital"? Thank you.

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linguoboy
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Re: which Harry are we talking about?

Postby linguoboy » 2021-03-27, 4:26

Proper nouns obey different rules than common nouns. Generally, they either include an article (e.g. The Hague, the Mississippi, The Wizard of Oz) or they don’t (e.g. Amsterdam, Mississippi, Frank Oz). And if they don’t then one is added only in exceptional circumstances. I think that’s why “Harry” sounds acceptable with no article here even though that would not be the case with a common noun.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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