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Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-07-18, 19:30
by voron
Hi guys,

Where should I place the proper name, before or after the noun that it specifies? Or does it depend on the meaning?

Examples:
The application will install the ASP.NET and IIS features / the features ASP.NET and IIS.
To abort the process, press the Cancel button / the button Cancel.
I read the Harry Potter book / the book Harry Potter.

Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-07-18, 19:59
by linguoboy
voron wrote:Where should I place the proper name, before or after the noun that it specifies? Or does it depend on the meaning?

It's English! Of course the answer is "It depends!" :D

voron wrote:The application will install the ASP.NET and IIS features / the features ASP.NET and IIS.

Depending on context, I might read the former as meaning "features associated with ASP.NET and IIS" as opposed to "the features named ASP.NET and IIS".

voron wrote:To abort the process, press the Cancel button / the button "Cancel".
I read the Harry Potter book / the book Harry Potter.

Note formatting. "The Harry Potter book" is a given book associated with Harry Potter, not necessarily a book of that title.

voron wrote:Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Yes--and in fact this is more common.

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-07-18, 20:13
by voron
Thanks linguoboy! It's clear now.

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-07-19, 14:22
by Ser
linguoboy wrote:
voron wrote:Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Yes--and in fact this is more common.

Hmm?

While I agree "The application will install ASP.NET and IIS features" sounds fine, the other two sentences sound bad to me without the article. Did you really mean "To abort the process, press Cancel button" is fine?

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-07-19, 14:44
by linguoboy
Ser wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
voron wrote:Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Yes--and in fact this is more common.

While I agree "The application will install ASP.NET and IIS features" sounds fine, the other two sentences sound bad to me without the article. Did you really mean "To abort the process, press Cancel button" is fine?

Sorry, I did misread that. For some reason I thought voron was referring to the noun in opposition to the proper name. That is, "Press 'Cancel'" is far more common than "press the Cancel button".

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-11-17, 14:39
by langmon
linguoboy wrote:Sorry, I did misread that. For some reason I thought voron was referring to the noun in opposition to the proper name. That is, "Press 'Cancel'" is far more common than "press the Cancel button".


Does this last sentence of yours mean that one usually would say "press Cancel" instead of the other one, or am I overlooking something?

In case I am not overlooking something:

[A Typical SGP Question Tag]

What is the underlying reason for preferring "press Cancel" over the other?

[/A Typical SGP Question Tag]

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2018-11-17, 21:32
by linguoboy
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Sorry, I did misread that. For some reason I thought voron was referring to the noun in opposition to the proper name. That is, "Press 'Cancel'" is far more common than "press the Cancel button".


Does this last sentence of yours mean that one usually would say "press Cancel" instead of the other one, or am I overlooking something?

That's exactly what it means.

The reason it's preferred is that if you can communicate your intent unambiguously in two words, why use four?

Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Posted: 2019-09-27, 2:04
by vijayjohn
I would definitely say the Cancel button rather the button "Cancel," though.