Proper name with noun: before or after?

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voron
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Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby voron » 2018-07-18, 19:30

Hi guys,

Where should I place the proper name, before or after the noun that it specifies? Or does it depend on the meaning?

Examples:
The application will install the ASP.NET and IIS features / the features ASP.NET and IIS.
To abort the process, press the Cancel button / the button Cancel.
I read the Harry Potter book / the book Harry Potter.

Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

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Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-18, 19:59

voron wrote:Where should I place the proper name, before or after the noun that it specifies? Or does it depend on the meaning?

It's English! Of course the answer is "It depends!" :D

voron wrote:The application will install the ASP.NET and IIS features / the features ASP.NET and IIS.

Depending on context, I might read the former as meaning "features associated with ASP.NET and IIS" as opposed to "the features named ASP.NET and IIS".

voron wrote:To abort the process, press the Cancel button / the button "Cancel".
I read the Harry Potter book / the book Harry Potter.

Note formatting. "The Harry Potter book" is a given book associated with Harry Potter, not necessarily a book of that title.

voron wrote:Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Yes--and in fact this is more common.
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Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby voron » 2018-07-18, 20:13

Thanks linguoboy! It's clear now.

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Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby Ser » 2018-07-19, 14:22

linguoboy wrote:
voron wrote:Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Yes--and in fact this is more common.

Hmm?

While I agree "The application will install ASP.NET and IIS features" sounds fine, the other two sentences sound bad to me without the article. Did you really mean "To abort the process, press Cancel button" is fine?
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Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-19, 14:44

Ser wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
voron wrote:Also, can I omit the articles in the examples above?

Yes--and in fact this is more common.

While I agree "The application will install ASP.NET and IIS features" sounds fine, the other two sentences sound bad to me without the article. Did you really mean "To abort the process, press Cancel button" is fine?

Sorry, I did misread that. For some reason I thought voron was referring to the noun in opposition to the proper name. That is, "Press 'Cancel'" is far more common than "press the Cancel button".
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Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-17, 14:39

linguoboy wrote:Sorry, I did misread that. For some reason I thought voron was referring to the noun in opposition to the proper name. That is, "Press 'Cancel'" is far more common than "press the Cancel button".


Does this last sentence of yours mean that one usually would say "press Cancel" instead of the other one, or am I overlooking something?

In case I am not overlooking something:

[A Typical SGP Question Tag]

What is the underlying reason for preferring "press Cancel" over the other?

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Re: Proper name with noun: before or after?

Postby linguoboy » 2018-11-17, 21:32

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Sorry, I did misread that. For some reason I thought voron was referring to the noun in opposition to the proper name. That is, "Press 'Cancel'" is far more common than "press the Cancel button".


Does this last sentence of yours mean that one usually would say "press Cancel" instead of the other one, or am I overlooking something?

That's exactly what it means.

The reason it's preferred is that if you can communicate your intent unambiguously in two words, why use four?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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