Azhong's Writing Practice.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby azhong » 2014-11-28, 14:12

To begin with, I am truly grateful for your responses. Thank you.
(When can I gain as much the sense of words as Ciarán have had? Or just half of that? A quarter? And How can I? I think I know the answer: just read, read, and read more, since I do not live in a English-spoken place. Am I right?)

@Ciarán: your detailed explanation is very helpful to me. I cannot catch those connotations you have mentioned even I looked up my dictionary. Please come at times to provide your precious help.

linguoboy wrote:Having not been in a lot of Chinese homes, I'm still vague on the architecture here...
The (boring) plot I've wanted to tell is basically the twinge that shot through the man's knee when he went downstairs. (More basically, I just want to practice English instead of really intending to say something.) The information you have provided are both interesting and inspiring to me, though. It attracts me to read again your previous post later. But basically it is just that I mistook ladder for a synonym of stairs.

linguoboy wrote:If you stepped out of a bedroom onto a landing, you would already be at the head of the stairs.
YoungFun wrote:He walked from the bedroom (on the 2nd floor) to the beginning of the stairs.
Here I've learned another two possible expressions that are new to me.
()He stepped out of his bedroom onto a landing. (I am very glad to learn this word, exactly what I need.)
()He walked from the bedroom to the beginning of the stairs.

Ciarán12 wrote:(2-2)He stepped down onto the first step, and immediately his felt a slight twinge in the his right knee.
(I am quite interesting in this revision. It is the very one of the questions of the sentence below. Thus here I'll go my new questions.)

vijayjohn wrote:(2) You have paddled the been pedaling on your bicycle too much, with your right leg pedaling harder than your left.
(Explanations:
1. I saw in the dictionary pedal can also be used as a transitive verb:
ex: He padeled his bicycle slowly up the hill.
Q: Is the usage out of date already?
(2-1) You have been pedaling your bicycle too much,...

2. I originally arranged the latter half of the sentence as:
(2-2-1)..., with your right leg harder pedaling than your left.
Then I omit than your left since it has been hinted. I furthermore omitted pedaling since it is repetitive here. Thus it comes the result as:
(2-2-2)..., with your right leg harder.
Q: Is the result not good? Ungrammatical, unnatural, or unclear, or what else? Will it be better if I add a comma
(2-2-3)..., with your right leg, harder.

3. In the two sentences below, which word calls less readers' attention, your or the?
(2-3-1)You have been pedaling on your bicycle too much,...
(2-3-2)You have been pedaling on the bicycle too much,...
I chose the previously because I think that a "smaller" word would suit better here since it's not an informational word of the sentence, that the is smaller in a reader's feeling, and that you has been used as a subject thus no confusion will be caused. Am I right or just wrong? I am at times unsure which one suits better, a definitive or a possessive. Or does they just make no difference to you? And to ask together, how if a is used? Is it even ungrammatical?
(2-3-3)You have been pedaling on a bicycle too much,...

vijayjohn wrote:(1)Whom are you blaming for, sir? Aan inner voice arose and asked him.
Q: Can't I omit and asked him? Hasn't it been clearly hinted from the text?
Another similar revision I've received was an insersion of a saying:
vijayjohn wrote:"...Let a day begins only with Thee, Cure of Indulgence." He raised his arms high and looked upward, saying, "I beg Thee to have mercy on me..."
Thus I guess it still cann't be omitted even after a quotation mark was added, as thesentence below?
(1-2) "Whom are you blaming, sir?" an inner voice arose.

vijayjohn wrote:(3) On that, are you forced? Did anyone force you to do that?
Q: What's the amtter if I use the present tense if it's the man's daily habit to ride bikes?
(3-1) Do anyone force you to do that?
Q: And is it worse if I use the passive voice? I suppose it should be better here, since "anyone" is not an informative word to me. But my sense might be wrong.
(3-2) Are you forced to do that?

Q: And one more question: when is a proper time to reverse a sentence? I roughly know to reverse a sentence is to emphasize some phrase of a sentence and thus put the phrase in the sentence beginning. But I am wondering I've overused it. Days ago I also received a revision as below:
linguoboy wrote:(To explain a bit please allow me, Please allow me to explain if because it is helpful for us all to realize how easy it is to have a culture gap.
Q: And, an extra question for this correction. I think briefly or shortly will be grammatical an natural to replace a bit:
()Please allow me to explain briefly/shortly.
Is the sentence natural?

I've copied your comments and made a new passage as below. Does it go perfectly well now?
Drowsily, the man stepped out of his bedroom onto the landing. His right foot reached down onto the first step and at once a twinge shot through his knee. He paused, reached out to the banister and grasped it.
"Ouch!" he moaned softly."Damn it!


Q: Here I have another question: How about [i] he softly moaned[i], compared as [i] he moaned softly
? Unnatural?
"Ouch!" he softly moaned."Damn it!
Last edited by azhong on 2014-11-28, 14:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby OldBoring » 2014-11-28, 14:19

azhong wrote:
linguoboy wrote:If you stepped out of a bedroom onto a landing, you would already be at the head of the stairs.
YoungFun wrote:He walked from the bedroom (on the 2nd floor) to the beginning of the stairs.
Here I've learned another two possible expressions that are new to me.
()He stepped out of his bedroom onto a landing. (I am very glad to learn this word, exactly what I need.)
()He walked from the bedroom to the beginning of the stairs.

Oh, no. I'm sorry for having confused you. Please take only linguoboy's suggestion, not mine.
I didn't see linguoboy's post, so I was explaining the meaning of your Chinese sentence, and I was hoping for native English speakers to suggest the right term for "the beginning of the stairs", cause I didn't realize that linguoboy had already suggested landing.
After all, I'm not a native English speaker.
Sorry for hijacking your thread.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby linguoboy » 2014-11-28, 17:23

Youngfun wrote:I want to say something for "他從二樓的房間走到二樓的樓梯口。".
Literally this sentence means: "He walked from the bedroom (on the 2nd floor) to the beginning of the stairs (also on the 2nd floor)."

I don't know how to translate 楼梯口. It means the "entrance" to the stairs, the point where stairs begin.

Normally I think we would specify where this was the head/top or foot/bottom of the stairs. "Beginning of the stairs" gets a lot of Ghits, but many of these imply that the rest of the stairs are out of view or that there is a change over the course of the staircase. (E.g. "The beginning of the stairs is very narrow with steps fit for dwarfs (the height of the first step is 3mm). Every next step is a fraction higher, wider and deeper."[*])

"Landing" implies a staircase leading down. It suggests the possibility of one leading up as well. It sounds wrong to me to use it for a staircase which only leads up. It's particularly used for the platform which connects two flights of stairs when there is a change in direction.

[*] FWIW, I think this passage was draughted by a non-native speaker.
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-11-29, 0:26

azhong wrote:(When can I gain as much the sense of words as Ciarán have had? Or just half of that? A quarter? And How can I?


As I am a native English speaker, I'm not sure aiming to have the same command of English as I do is really feasible. But don't despair, you are doing very well, I think the issues being raised by your texts are good ones and allow us to teach you points with wide-reaching implications.

azhong wrote:I think I know the answer: just read, read, and read more, since I do not live in a English-spoken place. Am I right?)


My experience is that the more exposure you get (including by reading), the faster you will progress. But I think you need to practice output as well. You are getting some of that by posting here, but I would strongly suggest you try to get spoken practice on a regular basis - there are lots of English speakers in the world (far too many, if you ask me), so I would be surprised if you couldn't find any in your area. But even if you can't, there are online Skype language exchange groups that you could join. I certainly think you should be able to find people who would be willing to exchange English for your Mandarin.

azhong wrote:@Ciarán: your detailed explanation is very helpful to me. I cannot catch those connotations you have mentioned even I looked up my dictionary. Please come at times to provide your precious help.


Because you asked so nicely, I will do my best. Flattery will get you everywhere* :wink:

*This is an idiom meaning "If you say nice things to me you can easily get me to help you"

azhong wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Having not been in a lot of Chinese homes, I'm still vague on the architecture here...
The (boring) plot I've wanted to tell is basically the that a twinge that shot through the man's knee when he went downstairs. (More basically, I just want to practice English instead of really intending to say something.) The information you have provided are is both interesting and inspiring to me, though. It attracts encourages me to read again your previous post again later. But basically it is just that I mistook ladder for a synonym of stairs.

linguoboy wrote:If you stepped out of a bedroom onto a landing, you would already be at the head of the stairs.
YoungFun wrote:He walked from the bedroom (on the 2nd floor) to the beginning of the stairs.
Here I've learned another two possible expressions that are new to me.
()He stepped out of his bedroom onto a landing. (I am very glad to learn this word, exactly what I need.)
()He walked from the bedroom to the beginning of the stairs.

Ciarán12 wrote:(2-2)He stepped down onto the first step, and immediately his felt a slight twinge in the his right knee.
(I am quite interesting interested in this revision. It is the very one of the questions of about the sentence below. Thus here I'll go my new questions So I'll just put my new questions here.)

vijayjohn wrote:(2) You have paddled the been pedaling on your bicycle too much, with your right leg pedaling harder than your left.
(Explanations:
1. I saw in the dictionary pedal can also be used as a transitive verb:
ex: He pedaled his bicycle slowly up the hill.
Q: Is the usage out of date already?
(2-1) You have been pedaling your bicycle too much,...


In my dialect, at least, it is perfectly fine to say "I pedaled my bike up the hill".

azhong wrote:2. I originally arranged the latter half of the sentence as:
(2-2-1)..., with your right leg harder pedaling than your left.
Then I omit than your left since it has been hinted mentioned. I furthermore omitted pedaling since it is repetitive here. Thus it comes the result as becomes:
(2-2-2)..., with your right leg harder.
Q: Is the result not good? Ungrammatical, unnatural, or unclear, or what else? Will it be better if I add a comma
(2-2-3)..., with your right leg, harder.


Hmm.. So, firstly, the adverb would need to follow the verb, thus it would always be "pedalling harder" and not "harder pedalling". Secondly, I think you would need some sort of verb in the second part of the sentence, if not "pedalling" then something to stand in for it, like "going harder on your right" or "pushing (down) harder on your right". If you did so, you could leave out "than on your left", as that would be implied.

azhong wrote:3. In the two sentences below, which word calls less readers' attention, your or the?
(2-3-1)You have been pedaling on your bicycle too much,...
(2-3-2)You have been pedaling on the bicycle too much,...
I chose the previously because I think that a "smaller" word would suit better here since it's not an informational word of the sentence, that the is smaller in a reader's feeling mind (better: that the has a smaller feel to it), and that you has been used as a subject thus no confusion will be caused. Am I right or just wrong? I am at times unsure which one suits better, a definitive or a possessive. Or does do they just make no difference to you? And to ask together now that I mention it, how about if a is used? Is it even ungrammatical?


Using "a" here would be strange, but not technically ungrammatical. "a" would imply that the speaker doesn't know which bike the listener has been cycling on, and in most English-speaking countries people only have one bicycle and usually ride their own one, so the speaker would assume that it is the listener's own bike that he has been cycling. "the" vs "your" - it really isn't a big issue, they are both fine, but "the" does imply that the speaker knows/has seen the bike before or the bike has already been spoken about*.

*We tend to use the definite article ("the") in English when referring either to something previously mentioned in the conversation (to mark that thing as the specific one already under discussion, not a different thing), or when context makes it so obvious which thing you are talking about that it might as well have been mentioned. An example of the first usage is "A man walked into a shop and asked the shopkeeper to give him some milk. A woman walked in and the man turned around." - Here the article "the" is indicating that it is the same man we mentioned before, not a new man. An example of the second is: Two college students leave their class and one asks the other "Hey, are you going to the cafeteria?" - Here, there is only one cafeteria on campus, so they both already know from context which cafeteria is has to be (even though they had not mentioned any cafeteria in the conversation yet).

azhong wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:(1)Whom are you blaming for, sir? Aan inner voice arose and asked him.
Q: Can't I omit and asked him? Hasn't it been clearly hinted from the text?


In a narritive in English, if I read "An inner voice arose.", I would expect what that voice said to be written after that, not before, so if you add it after the quotation I think some sort of extra clarification like what Vijay put is preferable.

But even that usage of "arose" is quite literary, in normal speech "to arise" does not imply words being spoken, even if it is a voice that arises. That's probably the real reason Vijay added "ask", as that does imply words being spoken.

azhong wrote:Another similar revision I've received was an insersion of a saying:
vijayjohn wrote:"...Let a day begins only with Thee, Cure of Indulgence." He raised his arms high and looked upward, saying, "I beg Thee to have mercy on me..."
Thus I guess it still cann't be omitted even after a quotation mark was added, as the sentence below?


It sounds more straight-forward with the "saying" there, but I think poetic licence* allows for the formula you chose originally.

*"Poetic licence" is a term we use to describe how, in poetry and literature, the normal rules of usage (and even grammar, in some cases) can be broken to add a special effect.

azhong wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:(3) On that, are you forced? Did anyone force you to do that?
Q: What's the matter if I use the present tense if it's the man's daily habit to ride bikes?
(3-1) Does anyone force you to do that?


You could say "Is anyone forcing you to do that?" or "Does anyone force you to do that?", but I would stick to that type of formula, the way you phrased it originally doesn't sound right.

azhong wrote:Q: And is it worse if I use the passive voice? I suppose it should be better here, since "anyone" is not an informative word to me. But my sense might be wrong.
(3-2) Are you forced to do that?


I would say the passive voice sounds a little strange here. In general, I would advice you to default to the active voice, the passive is a marked choice in English in most contexts and it isn't necessary here.

azhong wrote:Q: And one more question: when is a proper the appropriate time to reverse a sentence? I roughly know that to reverse a sentence is you to emphasize some phrase of a sentence and thus put the phrase in the beginning of the sentence beginning. But I am wondering I've overused it. Days ago I also received a revision as below:
linguoboy wrote:(To explain a bit please allow me, Please allow me to explain if because it is helpful for us all to realize how easy it is to have a culture gap.
Q: And, an extra question for this correction. I think briefly or shortly will be grammatical an natural to replace a bit:
()Please allow me to explain briefly/shortly.
Is the sentence natural?


That sentence is fine with "briefly", "a bit" is just slightly less formal here than "briefly". "Shortly" means "in not too long an amount of time from now". So if I say "I will explain this briefly" that means that my explanation will not take very much time, but if I say "I will explain this shortly" that means my explanation will begin soon (i.e. the time between now and when the explanation begins is what is "short", not necessarily the length of the explanation itself).

azhong wrote:I've copied your comments and made a new passage as below. Does it go perfectly well now?
Drowsily, the man stepped out of his bedroom onto the landing. His right foot reached down onto the first step and at once a twinge shot through his knee. He paused, reached out to the banister and grasped it.
"Ouch!" he moaned softly."Damn it!


Sounds pretty good to me. :y:

azhong wrote:Q: Here I have another question: How about [i] he softly moaned[i], compared as [i] he moaned softly? Unnatural?
"Ouch!" he softly moaned."Damn it!


Slighlty unnatural, yes. As I said somewhere above, adverbs go after the verb they describe. Here, where the adverb comes between the pronoun and the finite verb form it is less unnatural than the previous example I commented on, but it is still better to have it follow the verb.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby azhong » 2014-12-01, 11:29

linguoboy wrote:...It sounds wrong to me to use it [landing] for a staircase which only leads up...
Q: Therefore, if the man went down from the second floor of his house, which had exactly only two floors, would head/top of the stairs be a better diction than landing? And are there any other alternatives in this special case? Similarly, any other dictions for the foot/bottom of the stairs of the ground floor (or bottom floor or the lowest floor? I do not know how to say it...And how to name the highest floor of a building when it was not an attic?)?

Below I'd like to ask how to write dialogues grammatically, and then questions on a old sentence of dialogue.
I suppose both the sentences below are grammatical. (Please correct my errors of puntuation marks, if any.)
(v) "Thank you," said the man.
(v) "Thank you," the man said.
(v) The man said, "thank you."
(v) "Thank you," he said.
But the one below is ungrammatical; the pronoun must always be put before the verb.
*(x)"Thank you," said he.
Q: Am I correct?

Q: Next, I am unsure some of the correctness when it is in the middle of a dialogue. Your comments please.
(v) "Thank you," said the man. "Thank you very much."
(v) "Thank you," he said. "Thank you very much."
(x) "Thank you," said he. "Thank you very much."
(?) "Thank you," said the man, "thank you very much."
(?) "Thank you," he said, "thank you very much."
Whom are you blaming, sir? an inner voice arose and asked him. You have been pedaling your bicycle too much...
According to a dialogue example I've found randomly in a novel,
()"Kiss each other, brothers-in-law!" Elzbieta trilled. "You are kin, after all..."[from The Magician of Lublin by Isaac Singer]
an imitative, grammatical sentence of mine might be
() "Whom are you blaming, sir?" an voice asked. "You have been..."

Next, the quotation mark can seem to be omitted grammatically for an inner voice, because the inner voice is not really be spoken out.
() Whom are you blaming, sir? an inner voice asked. You have been...

Next, Ciarán said,
Ciarán12 wrote:In a narrative in English, if I read "An inner voice arose.", I would expect what that voice said to be written after that, not before...
My question is then:
Q: How if it is written in a new word order as arose an inner voice? If the verb, arose here, is reversed to the beginning of the phrase, will the reader expect that the arisen voice also includes the words written before it? Is the new sentence below getting better compared to my previous one in the same situation without adding and asked him(, disregarding its still unperfect because arose does not imply words being spoken)?
() Whom are you blaming, sir? arose an inner voice . You have been...
()Whom are you blaming, sir? an inner voice arose. You have been...

Q: An extra question: how can I insert and asked him grammatically with the reverse? Your revision please.
() Whom are you blaming, sir? arose an inner voice and asked him. You have been...
Ciarán12 wrote:But even that usage of "arose" is quite literary, in normal speech "to arise" does not imply words being spoken, even if it is a voice that arises....
Q: To sak furthermore, are there any other alternatives that can replace arise and ask, are less wordy, and are more precise than words like say and ask, being able to imply the sudden showing up of the inner voice?
I've thought to rewrite it as:

() "Ouch!" he moaned softly."Damn it!
An inner voice arose instantly.
Whom are you blaming, sir? asked the voice. You have been pedaling your bicycle too much...


Does it acceptable?
However, I seem prefer to let the inner voice follow up closely if I can, to convey the effect of the instantness. Can it?
Or, are the two cases just indifferent to native speakers?
Vijay wrote:And who prevented ("stopped" may be better) you from being cautious?
Q: Can you explain several synonyms: keep, prevent, stop, hinder? And do you suggest some other words that might suit as well or even better?
Vijay wrote:The pain has been happening for mornings reoccurring repeatedly in the morning.
(Here I mean the twinge came up this morning and last morning and mornings before when the man goes downstairs. Thus,)
Q: Similarly, what's the difference between happen and occur? Also,
Q: In the Vijay's revision, I find that the re of reoccur and repeatedly seem to imply the same meaning to me. So, how will you comment the sentences below?
()The pain has been occurring repeatedly in the morning.
()The pain has been reoccurring in the morning. (omitting repeatedly)
()The pain has been happening repeatedly in the morning.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-02, 16:49

azhong wrote:Therefore, if the man went down from the second floor of his house, which had exactly only two floors, would head/top of the stairs be a better diction than landing?

It depends more on the layout of the upper floor. For instance, there's no "landing" at the top of the stairs in my sister's house. They terminate in a corridor which all of the second-floor rooms open onto. If you said "landing", it would be understood as the spot where the stairs reverse direction a few feet from the top.

azhong wrote:And are there any other alternatives in this special case?

None spring to mind.

azhong wrote:Similarly, any other dictionsterms for the foot/bottom of the stairs of the ground floor (or bottom floor or the lowest floor? I do not know how to say it...And how to namewhat do you call the highest floor of a building when it wasis not an attic?)?

Again, it depends. In apartment buildings, this is often called the "penthouse", especially when it is a fancier-than-usual apartment. More commonly it has no special name, it's just the "top floor".

For a two-stor(e)y building, Americans would say "first floor" and "second floor" or, informally, "upstairs" and "downstairs". In British usage, these are the "ground floor" and the "first floor", respectively.

I can't think of another common word for "foot/bottom of the stairs".
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-02, 17:12

azhong wrote:Below I'd like to ask how to write dialogues grammatically, and then ask a questions on a old sentence of dialogue.
I suppose both the sentences below are grammatical. (Please correct my errors of punctuation marks, if any.)
(v) "Thank you," said the man.
(v) "Thank you," the man said.
(v) The man said, "Thank you."
(v) "Thank you," he said.
But the one below is ungrammatical; the pronoun must always be put before the verb.
*(x)"Thank you," said he.

Not ungrammatical, just archaic. It's the kind of usage you might find in a folktale, but not in unaffected contemporary writing.

azhong wrote:Q: Next, I am unsure some of the about its correctness when it is in the middle of a dialogue. Your comments please.
(v) "Thank you," said the man. "Thank you very much."
(v) "Thank you," he said. "Thank you very much."
(x) "Thank you," said he. "Thank you very much."
(?) "Thank you," said the man, "thank you very much."
(?) "Thank you," he said, "thank you very much."

These are all acceptable (though with the same caveat as above for the third one down). As for the capitalisation, it depends how you would punctuate the sentence on its own. It could be either:

(1) "Thank you. Thank you very much."
(2) "Thank you, thank you very much."

The only real difference here is in the length of the pause between the two "thank you"s. Using a comma implies a very short one, as if he immediately corrected himself because he didn't think "thank you" by itself was strong enough.

azhong wrote:Next, the quotation mark can seem to be omitted grammatically for an inner voice, because the inner voice is not really be spoken out.
() Whom are you blaming, sir? an inner voice asked. You have been...

That's correct. This lends more of a stream of consciousness effect to the narration.

azhong wrote:Next, Ciarán said:
Ciarán12 wrote:In a narrative in English, if I read "An inner voice arose.", I would expect what that voice said to be written after that, not before...
My question is then:
Q: How about if it is written with a new word order as arose an inner voice? If the verb, arose here, is reversed toplaced at the beginning of the phrase, will the reader expect that the arisen voice also includes the words written before it? Is the new sentence below getting better compared to my previous one in the same situation without adding and asked him (disregarding its still imperfect because arose does not imply words being spoken)?
() Whom are you blaming, sir? arose an inner voice . You have been...
()Whom are you blaming, sir? an inner voice arose. You have been...

Either way, this is just a very stilted way of saying "he asked himself", which is the most natural phrasing in English.

azhong wrote:Q: An extra question: how can I insert and asked him grammatically with the reverseinversion? Your revision please.

Q: To ask furthermore, are there any other alternatives that can replace arise and ask, are less wordy, and are more precise than words like say and ask, being able to imply the sudden showing upappearance of the inner voice?
I've thought toof rewriting it as:

() "Ouch!" he moaned softly."Damn it!
An inner voice arose instantly.
Whom are you blaming, sir? asked the voice. You have been pedaling your bicycle too much...


Is it acceptable?
However, I seem prefer to let the inner voice follow up closely if I can, to convey the effect of the instantaneousness. Can it?
Or, are the two cases just indifferent to native speakers?

Couldn't you simply say "...he suddenly/immediately/reflexively asked himself"? All these words imply the instantaneous appearance of something which was not present before.
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby azhong » 2014-12-03, 8:49

(Some questions in my previous post are not responsed yet. I copied them below. Any comments are helpful. Thank you in advance for your help.)

Vijay wrote:And who prevented ("stopped" may be better) you from being cautious?
Q: Can you explain several synonyms: keep, prevent, stop, hinder? And do you suggest some other words that might suit as well or even better?
Vijay wrote:The pain has been happening for mornings reoccurring repeatedly in the morning.
(Here I mean the twinge came up not only this morning but also mornings before. Thus,)
Q: Similarly, what's the difference between happen and occur? Also,
Q: In the Vijay's revision, I find that the re of reoccur and repeatedly seem to imply the same meaning to me. So, how will you comment the sentences below?
()The pain has been occurring repeatedly in the morning.
()The pain has been reoccurring in the morning. (omitting repeatedly)
()The pain has been happening repeatedly in the morning.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby azhong » 2014-12-04, 9:22

linguoboy wrote:Couldn't you simply say "...he suddenly/immediately/reflexively asked himself"?
Yes, and I am glad to try. Thus how about the sentences below?
Whom are you blaming, sir? he reflexively asked himself. You cycle your bike every day and, as a direct result, you hurt your right knee gradually. Dose anyone force you to do that?......
He eventually managed to bring brought his left leg onto the same stair.
Well, well, need your tone to be so strict/harsh despite your words seem correct? another he asked back.
He stood straight, with a smile on his face. He cleared his throat.

Below I go on my questions of new sentences.
This inner talk sounded strict, and exactly by reason of it, his characteristic of playfulness was also roused for that exact reason, he chose to respond with satire.
Q: Can a characteristic be roused? Or should I say a person is roused instead, as the sentence?
()This inner talk sounded strict, and for that exactly reason, he was roused with his characteristic of playfulness.

Q: Which term is the best among for the/this/that exact reason?
Q: And which term is better between for that exact/very reason?

Q: Your comparison please among
()The inner talk was hard/strict/harsh.
Q: Your comparison please between
His strictness stirred up/aroused his also mercy.

Q: Are there other better, shorter terms than characteristic?

His left leg came after He eventually managed to bring his left leg onto the same stair.
Q: I guess my problem here is the same: a man's leg can not come; a man can. Right?
Q: I noticed that in your previous revisions leg is replaced with foot. Should leg also be replaced here?
(Explanation: To me, the existance of eventually managed to imply seemingly the man spent a bit long time to move his left leg down with more difficulty, and his moving slowly was then highly associated with the pain. Thus,)
Q: would the twinge seem not so painful if eventually managed to was removed?
()He brought his left leg onto the same stair.
Q: To replace brought, how about merged/settled/set/placed/put?
()He merged/settled/set/placed/put his left leg onto the same stair.

He stood straight, with a puzzlinged smile on his face.
Q: I can't see out why it's puzzled but not puzzling. His smile puzzled the reader; The reader was puzzled by his smile. Thus it was a puzzling smile to the reader, wasn't it? Is my context unclear, or is my understanding wrong?

He cleaned cleared his throat.
Q: I still need your explanation even after I've look up clean and clear in the dictionary. They two seem indifferent in this sentence to me when being verbs.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-08-20, 3:13

azhong wrote:(Some of the questions in my previous post are not responsed have not been answered yet. I have copied (better: repeated) them below. Any comments are helpful. Thank you in advance for your help.)

No problem. :)
Vijay wrote:And who prevented ("stopped" may be better) you from being cautious?
Q: Can you explain several synonyms: keep, prevent, stop, hinder?

I'd say "can you explain the synonyms" or "...these synonyms" before giving a list like that.
And do can you suggest some other words that might suit work as well or even better here?

I would say that keep is slightly less formal than stop, which is less formal than prevent, which is slightly less formal than hinder. But perhaps what would be even better than using any of these would be to simply rephrase the sentence, e.g. And who told you not to be cautious? or (even better, in my opinion) And who told you to be so careless?
Vijay wrote:The pain has been happening for mornings reoccurring repeatedly in the morning.
(Here I mean the twinge came up not only this morning but also in mornings before.

Yes, I understood that, but thanks. :)
Thus,)

I would say "Hence:"
Q: Similarly, what's the difference between happen and occur?

Happen is less formal than occur; also, happen can only be used with events. Occur can mean the same as happen but also can mean 'to be present or found'. Pain is not an event, so it can't "happen"; however, it can be present, so it can "occur."
Also,
Q: In the Vijay's revision, I find that the re of reoccur and repeatedly seem to imply the same meaning to me.

I would say either "imply the same thing to me" or "have the same meaning to me."
So, how will you comment the sentences below?
()The pain has been occurring repeatedly in the morning.
()The pain has been reoccurring in the morning. (omitting repeatedly)

Both of these are fine.
()The pain has been happening repeatedly in the morning.

This does not work for the reason I mentioned before, i.e. happen and occur do not mean exactly the same thing.
linguoboy wrote:Couldn't you simply say "...he suddenly/immediately/reflexively asked himself"?
Yes, and I am glad to try. Thus how about the sentences below?
Whom are you blaming, sir? he reflexively asked himself. You cycle ride your bike every day, and, as a direct result, you gradually hurt your right knee gradually. Dose Does anyone force you to do that?......
He eventually managed to bring brought his left leg onto the same stair.

He eventually managed to bring... and He eventually brought... are both acceptable here, but not He eventually managed to bring brought... ;)
Well, well, need your tone to be so strict/harsh despite although your words seem correct? another he asked back.

I don't understand what you mean by "another he asked back." Do you mean the man in your story is talking to his inner voice? In that case, I would just say he asked back (i.e. remove "another").
He stood up straight, with a smile on his face. He cleared his throat.
Below I go on to my questions of new sentences.
This inner talk sounded strict, and exactly by reason of it, his characteristic of playfulness was also roused for that exact reason, he chose to respond with satire.
Q: Can a characteristic be roused?

No, not as far as I know.
Or should I say a person is roused instead, as the in this sentence? (Note: a colon instead of a question mark is okay here, too).
()This inner talk sounded strict, and for that exactly reason, he was roused with by his characteristic of playfulness.

Yes, that seems to be okay.
Q: Which term is the best among for the/this/that exact reason?

I think either this or that is fine there.
Q: And which term is better between for that exact/very reason?

In my experience, native speakers of English are more likely to say for that exact reason.
Q: Your comparison please among Please compare the following:
()The inner talk was hard/strict/harsh.

Hard does not make sense to me in this sentence. Strict to me suggests that this man's inner voice was disciplining him but not necessarily criticizing him strongly. Harsh, however, definitely means his inner voice is criticizing him strongly.
Q: Your comparison please between
His strictness also stirred up/aroused his also mercy.

Only aroused works here. Arouse simply means to stimulate feelings; stir up means specifically to stimulate feelings of passion or make a person take action.
Q: Are there other better, shorter terms than characteristic?

I'm not sure. In the context of your story, I honestly think it would be better to omit the words "characteristic of" entirely.
His left leg came after He eventually managed to bring his left leg onto the same stair.
Q: I guess my problem here is the same: a man's leg can not come; a man can. Right?

Actually, "came" would have been fine if this sentence occurred just after the sentence where you talk about the other leg. "His right leg stepped down onto a staircase, and as a direct result, he slightly twisted his right knee. His left leg came later/afterwards onto the same stair." However, in your story, there's a lot that happens in between those two events. To say "his left leg came" after all of that happened sounds odd to me.
Q: I noticed that in your previous revisions leg is replaced with foot.

Really? :hmm: I can't seem to find where I suggested that you replace leg with foot. Could you show me where I said that? Thanks! :)
Should leg also be replaced here?

No.
(Explanation: To me, the existance use of eventually managed to

(By the way, you can also say "using eventually managed to...").
imply seemingly seems to imply the man spent took a bit somewhat long time to move his left leg down with more difficulty (do you mean with more difficulty than the right leg?), and his moving slowly was then highly associated with the pain. Thus So,)
Q: would the twinge seem not so painful if eventually managed to was removed?

()He brought his left leg onto the same stair.

I guess that's a fair point. So yes, I think you could say that instead.
Q: To replace brought, how about merged/settled/set/placed/put?
()He merged/settled/set/placed/put his left leg onto the same stair.

I think only placed works here. As I see it, settled, set, and put would all require the preposition on, not onto. Merge sounds odd in this context, because it suggests that the leg is becoming part of something else.
He stood straight, with a puzzlinged smile on his face.
Q: I can't see figure out why it's puzzled but not puzzling. His smile puzzled the reader; Tthe reader was puzzled by his smile. Thus it was a puzzling smile to the reader, wasn't it? Is my context unclear, or is my understanding wrong?

Oh okay, I guess you're right. Maybe I was just confused by the story at that time. Also, I don't think I see the words "puzzling smile" very often.
He cleaned cleared his throat.
Q: I still need your explanation even after I've look up clean and clear in the dictionary. They two seem indifferent Both of them seem to mean the same thing in this sentence to me when being as verbs.

Cleared his throat (清喉咙) is simply the only one of these two expressions that makes sense in English; cleaned his throat does not as far as I know. Cleaned out his throat does, but it means something entirely different (maybe I'm wrong, but I think it would be 清洁喉咙 in Chinese).

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-04-17, 20:55

azhong wrote:Three questions about nor. My thanks in advance.

1) Should the be in the sentence below be deleted, too?
...Nor would anyone be choked with both hands, nor anyone’s head be hammered on the ground.

I think it's clearer with be.

azhong wrote:2) Why is it below nor A or B or C? Should it not be nor A nor B nor C?
Nor should pocket knives or injuries or blood.
(c.f.1 He can’t do it; nor can I, nor can you, nor can anybody.
c.f.2 Nor would anyone be choked..., nor anyone’s head…)

In that case, the syntax should be slightly different: "Nor should pocket knives, nor injuries, nor blood."

You've grouped the various things you're negating into several sentences rather than have just one long string of "nor" phrases. Presumably there's some reason for that which is why I think "Nor X or Y or Z. Nor A or B or C" sounds better.

azhong wrote:3)In the sentence below,
No splinters of china to be cleared away.
if I want to keep nor, can I say
Nor would splinters of china to be cleared away.
(c.f. Nor should pocket knives…)

It depends what you're trying to say. Let's look at the whole context:
azhong wrote:Muscles should not be for those. Nor pocket knives nor dirty barks nor injuries nor blood. Nor splinters of china to be cleaned.

If you use "nor" here it sounds like you're saying "Splinters of china to be cleaned shouldn't be used [for fighting]". But that doesn't really make sense--people don't use splinters of china as weapons except under the most unusual circumstances. Plus the modifier "to be cleaned" suggests to me that the meaning is really "There shouldn't be splinters of china left that need to be cleaned up" and you're looking for a fancier way to say it that is parallel to the preceding sentences.

Using "nor" repeatedly in this way is pretty elevated stylistically. Honestly, it doesn't recall Hemingway to me, since he tried to express himself in a more down-to-earth manner.
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby azhong » 2018-04-29, 13:21

It is said vampires prowl at night, attack alive beings, and suck their blood. Therefore, be careful while you are asleep, when a dream of yours is over and, time for break, another does not come up yet, look out, a couple of sharp teeth may suddenly thrust into your soft, fresh neck.

Said vampires, blood as food, appear at night.
The moment when a dream ends with a break
And when the next one does not start as yet,
A sudden bite gets to your soft, fresh neck.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice, Seeking your Correction Please.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-05-03, 16:25

azhong wrote:It is said vampires prowl at night, attack aliveliving beings, and suck their blood. Therefore, be careful while you are asleep, when a dream of yours is over and, time for break, another does not come up yet, look out, a couple of sharp teeth may suddenly thrust into your soft, fresh neck.

"Time for break" doesn't make sense here.

azhong wrote:Said vampires, blood as food, appear at night.
The moment when a dream ends with a break
And when the next one does not start as yet,
A sudden bite gets to your soft, fresh neck.

This kind of works as poetry, but "said vampires" means something different from "it is said of vampires". See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/said#Adjective.
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2018-05-05, 11:14

()His words have surely irritated her. She turned away her face, a dirty look rose upon which, and, following that, a long, pointed silence lasted between them.
(My reference sentence: ...she communicated mainly by dirty looks and pointed silences the next morning.)

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2018-05-07, 3:09

()”Ready, set , go! “ banged the signal gun, and, at once, all the racers sprinted, making their efforts to thrust themselves forward. Very soon Billy took the lead, gaining half a shoulder of advantage over the others. And he kept the lead steady. When Billy passed the middle of the route, the pursuer closest following behind dropped obviously, whose front foot could already scarcely reach Billy’s rare foot. Yet more, Billy pulled the distance up as he rushed toward the end. No one could gain on him now. And Billy surely got the champion of the sprint race in the end.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-05-08, 3:15

azhong wrote:()His words have surely irritated her. She turned away her face, a dirty look rose upon which on her face, and, following that, a long, pointed silence lasted between them.
(My reference sentence: ...she communicated mainly by dirty looks and pointed silences the next morning.)

have … irritated: You're mixing tenses by using the present perfect in the first sentence and the simple past in the second. I can't be completely sure what you intended without you telling me, but it seems like you wanted the overall narrative to be in the past, with the first sentence in the past relative to the narrative. To achieve that, I'd put the first sentence in the past perfect. ("His words had surely irritated her.")

lasted: This verb choice sounds clunky to me. You could replace it with various other verbs, like "stretched" or "reigned". The choice depends on the mental image you want to give the reader. You could also use "ensued", but in that case I'd delete "following that" because "ensue" has the idea of following built in.

azhong wrote:()Ready, set , go! The starter pistol banged, and, at once, all the racers took off sprinting, making their efforts to thrust themselves forward. Very soon Billy took the lead, gaining half a shoulder of advantage over the others. And he kept the lead steady. When Billy passed the middle of the route halfway point, the closest pursuer closest following behind dropped obviously behind, whose his front foot could already scarcely reaching Billy’s rear foot heel. Yet more, Billy pulled the distance up as he rushed toward the end. No one could gain on him now. And Billy surely got the champion of the sprint race in the end.

”Ready, set , go! “ banged the signal gun: A quotation followed by inversion implies that the subject of the inverted sentence said the quotation. Starter pistols don't speak, so the inversion is only confusing. On the subject of "signal gun", I haven't used this term before, but it seems to mean "flare gun" rather than "starter pistol".

Yet more, Billy pulled the distance up: It's not clear to me what this means. Do you mean that he got closer to the finish line or that he lengthened the distance between him and the other runners?

got the champion of the sprint race: I also can't tell what this means. Do you mean that he won that particular race or that he became the champion in a larger sprinting event?
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2018-05-08, 16:40

® She turned away, a dirty look ensued on her face, and a long, pointed silence reigned between them.

Q: How to make the sentence below conciser? And, are there any verb phrases more colloquial to replace “lengthen"? “Pull up" seems not to work.

® (When Billy passed the halfway point, even the closest pursuer dropped obviously behind, his foot already scarcely reaching Billy’s heel.) Yet more, Billy lengthened the distance between him and the other runners as he rushed toward the finish line. (...And Billy surely won the race in the end.)

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby linguoboy » 2018-05-08, 20:22

azhong wrote:® She turned away, a dirty look ensued on her face, and a long, pointed silence reigned between them.

"Ensued" is awkward there. I would prefer "appeared".

azhong wrote:Q: How to make the sentence below conciser? And, are there any verb phrases more colloquial to replace “lengthen"? “Pull up" seems not to work.

® (When Billy passed the halfway point, even the closest pursuer dropped obviously behind, his foot already scarcely reaching Billy’s heel.) Yet more, Billy lengthened the distance between him and the other runners as he rushed toward the finish line. (...And Billy surely won the race in the end.)

I would say "Billy put yet more distance between him..."
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby Dormouse559 » 2018-05-08, 21:07

azhong wrote:® She turned away, a dirty look ensued on her face, and a long, pointed silence reigned between them.

"Ensued" doesn't work there. I intended it as another option for replacing "lasted" (i.e. "a long, pointed silence ensued between them").
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2018-05-09, 5:19

Dormouse559 wrote:...I intended it as another option for replacing "lasted".

Your earlier comment was surely very clear, and thank you. I just tried here, after a study with my dictionary, to make some variation on my own opinion according to what I had got.

linguoboy wrote:I would say "Billy put yet more distance between him..."

Q: Can I still omit or shorten "between he and the other runners"? I think it has been implied in the earlier sentences. Can I just say, for example,

When Billy passed the halfway point, even the closest pursuer dropped obviously behind, his foot already scarcely reaching Billy’s heel. And Billy put yet more distance in-between.

(And another practice of mine)
Q:does the sentence work?
()The train was arriving the station [in the status of] slowing up.

()The steam train was arriving the station, its white smoke puffing up out of the locomotive, blown behind and gone. A sharp whistle rose and reigned long in the air. The train kept slowing up, and finally stopped for its arrival. The doors got opened, just then the passengers piled out of the carriages and stepped upon the platform with their luggage.


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