Let's speak IPA

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Ciarán12
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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-04-12, 15:37

ɘi ˌʊndɚˈstʰændɘm dʒʊsfɘin

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linguoboy
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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-12, 15:56

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:jes. wɑj dɔnt jʉ pʊt ˈspesez?

bɪˈkʰʌˑzˈspe̞ɪ̯sɪzˈäɹəˈkʰɹʌʧ‖ˌɪfjɯ̽ˈwʌ̃nəˈʃɵʊ̯ˈpɒːzɪz|ˈðɛɹɚˈbɛɾɚˈwe̞ɪ̯zəvˈdʉwɪŋˌðɪs‖
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-12, 16:02

stʰɪɫ häɹd tʰɯ̽ ɹid
Last edited by JuxtapositionQMan on 2014-04-12, 17:03, edited 2 times in total.
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-12, 16:38

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:stɪll

Seriously? This is not "let's spell English with IPA characters", this is "Let's speak IPA". No way you have [ll] in that word; you have [ɫ].

This is part of the reason why I oppose spaces. You're not listening to how you actually speak, you're taking how you learned to write English and modifying it. That's a bad habit, and you'll never make real progress at phonetic transcription until you break yourself of it.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-12, 17:05

oˈke fɪkst
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-12, 18:30

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:oˈke fɪkst

ˈgɪɾɪŋˈðɛɚ̯ət̚ˈlist̚ ‖ ˈnaʊ̯ˈwɚˈkʰɒ̃ˈfiʧɚzˈlɐɪ̯kˈstɹɛs|ˌæspɪˈɹeɪ̯ʃnˌnˌˈdɪfˌθɒ̃ŋz ‖
ˌjɚˈnɑt̚ kʰəˈneɪ̯di.ən|ˈjʉʊ̯̈ˈdɵʊ̯̈nˀˌævˈpʰjʉɚ̯ˈvaʊ̯ɫz ‖
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-12, 22:15

ɑj hæv ʌˈlɒt ɞv kʰʌˈnejdiʌn ˈɪnflʉɛns. fɹ̩ ɪnstʌns, ɑj ˈɐnɜstli ˈnɛvɜɹ nɪw wʌt ʌ bijni wʌz n̩ˈtɪɫ ɑj wʌz tʰwɛɫv. ɑj äɫwejz hɹ̩d ðə kʰʌˈnejdiʌn tʰʉk.
ʌˈsɑjd frɞm ðæt, ɑj stʰɪɫ kʰænt ɞndɹ̩stænd jʉ. ɑj hæv a qwɛstʃjɞn, ðo; wɑj dɵz jɔɹ spitʃ hæv so mɞtʃ kʰlɪkɪŋ ɪn ɪt?
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-12, 22:50

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:qwɛstʃjɞn

*ˈhɛˑˌdːɛskʰ*

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:kʰlɪkɪŋ

ˈkʰlɪkʰɪŋ↗
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-12, 23:13

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:qwɛstʃjɞn

*ˈhɛˑˌdːɛskʰ*

Sorry, but I still can't understand you. Regular English please?

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:kʰlɪkɪŋ

ˈkʰlɪkʰɪŋ↗
these:
linguoboy wrote:ˈðɛɚ̯ət̚ˈlist̚ ˈnaʊ̯ˈ...ˈstɹɛs|ˌæspɪˈ...ˌθɒ̃ŋz ˌjɚ...ˈneɪ̯di.ən|ˈjʉʊ̯̈...ˈvaʊ̯ɫz
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-13, 0:11

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:qwɛstʃjɞn

*ˈhɛˑˌdːɛskʰ*

Sorry, but I still can't understand you. Regular English please?

Please look up what [q] represents in IPA. (Also, if you really have [jɞn] for the second syllable, then your pronunciation is far more affected that I ever would've credited.)

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:kʰlɪkɪŋ

ˈkʰlɪkʰɪŋ↗
these:
linguoboy wrote:ˈðɛɚ̯ət̚ˈlist̚ ˈnaʊ̯ˈ...ˈstɹɛs|ˌæspɪˈ...ˌθɒ̃ŋz ˌjɚ...ˈneɪ̯di.ən|ˈjʉʊ̯̈...ˈvaʊ̯ɫz

Oh, I see; you're unable to distinguish lateral clicks from prosody marks. No wonder you can't read what I wrote.

The period isn't a full stop in IPA; it's a mark of syllable division.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-13, 0:34

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:qwɛstʃjɞn

*ˈhɛˑˌdːɛskʰ*

Sorry, but I still can't understand you. Regular English please?

Please look up what [q] represents in IPA. (Also, if you really have [jɞn] for the second syllable, then your pronunciation is far more affected that I ever would've credited.)
Well, it's [tʃjɞn]. Does that count? I am very bad at vowels, so that's probably incorrect, but the rest holds. (Also, yes I am aware of q's IPA value. It just sounds off to say "question" with a [k], like a Brit was saying it or something)

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:kʰlɪkɪŋ

ˈkʰlɪkʰɪŋ↗
these:
linguoboy wrote:ˈðɛɚ̯ət̚ˈlist̚ ˈnaʊ̯ˈ...ˈstɹɛs|ˌæspɪˈ...ˌθɒ̃ŋz ˌjɚ...ˈneɪ̯di.ən|ˈjʉʊ̯̈...ˈvaʊ̯ɫz

Oh, I see; you're unable to distinguish lateral clicks from prosody marks. No wonder you can't read what I wrote.
Ohhhhhh...
Y'know, I am so smart right now. :silly:
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-13, 0:59

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Well, it's [tʃjɞn]. Does that count?

Could you make a recording? When I say this aloud, it sounds like no pronunciation I've ever heard before, not even from a non-native.

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Also, yes I am aware of q's IPA value.

So what is it?
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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-13, 1:39

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Well, it's [tʃjɞn]. Does that count?

Could you make a recording? When I say this aloud, it sounds like no pronunciation I've ever heard before, not even from a non-native.

I can't make a recording (sorry, mic. broken: getting new one at some point), but what part of it is unusual? If it's the vowel, I already said:
I wrote:I am very bad at vowels, so that's probably incorrect, but the rest holds.
If not, what?

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Also, yes I am aware of q's IPA value.

So what is it?

It's a uvular stop. It corresponds to ق in the arabic alphabet, क़ in devanagari, and sometimes is actually represented by q. I am aware that it is not an English phoneme, however, and the only places I find myself using it is in the classic qu (question, aquifer, aqueous), directly after short-but-has-nothing-to-do-with-vowel-length o (rock, sock, knock) and at random other places (rack, khacki, unique, coy). Unless, of course, I'm just interpreting it wrong and what I actually do is [kˤ] or something. After all, all I really know with IPA are the semivowels [w], [j], [ɰ], and [ɥ] and what any other sound isn't; the rest is guesstimation, so all I really know is that it isn't [k] or [kʰ].
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-13, 1:52

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:If not, what?

Well, then there's not much I can do but continue to doubt that you actually have a full onglide coupled a rounded vowel in that syllable.

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:Also, yes I am aware of q's IPA value.

So what is it?

It's a uvular stop. It corresponds to ق in the arabic alphabet, क़ in devanagari, and sometimes is actually represented by q. I am aware that it is not an English phoneme, however, and the only places I find myself using it is in the classic qu (question, aquifer, aqueous), directly after short-but-has-nothing-to-do-with-vowel-length o (rock, sock, knock) and at random other places (rack, khacki, unique, coy). Unless, of course, I'm just interpreting it wrong and what I actually do is [kˤ] or something. After all, all I really know with IPA are the semivowels [w], [j], [ɰ], and [ɥ] and what any other sound isn't; the rest is guesstimation, so all I really know is that it isn't [k] or [kʰ].

What makes you so sure it isn't [k] or [kʰ]? Can you reach into your throat and feel where the contact between your tongue and oral cavity takes place?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-13, 2:07

linguoboy wrote:
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:If not, what?

Well, then there's not much I can do but continue to doubt that you actually have a full onglide coupled a rounded vowel in that syllable.
Thanks. I just wanted to know what's dubious about it (still learning the whole IPA thingykajingy).

linguoboy wrote:What makes you so sure it isn't [k] or [kʰ]? Can you reach into your throat and feel where the contact between your tongue and oral cavity takes place?
No, but if I listen to a recording of [k] it sounds much further away than [q], and if I try to say the Uyghur for white, aq, (because why not?), it's the same sound as in "question", but the q in question doesn't sound the same as the k in kurt, and when I try to imitate a recording, it sounds the same as the q in question.
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-13, 2:53

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:
linguoboy wrote:What makes you so sure it isn't [k] or [kʰ]? Can you reach into your throat and feel where the contact between your tongue and oral cavity takes place?
No, but if I listen to a recording of [k] it sounds much further away than [q], and if I try to say the Uyghur for white, aq, (because why not?), it's the same sound as in "question", but the q in question doesn't sound the same as the k in kurt, and when I try to imitate a recording, it sounds the same as the q in question.

The problem is that very different articulatory manœuvres can produce perceptually similar results. There could be some other commonality between the /k/ you have in question and the /q/ in aq which makes them sound similar to you. For instance, the could both be somewhat labialised. (I know this is often true of English /k/ before /w/; I don't know enough about Uyghur phonology to speculated about allophonic realisations.)

That's why it's important to pay attention to your articulators. Where is your tongue? What is it doing? (E.g., is it bunched up, turned back on itself, pressed to one side?) What are your lips doing? Are they slack, rounded, rounded and protruded? Is any air escaping through your nose? What is the state of your pharynx? If you can't answer all of these questions confidently, you're apt to misidentify the phones.
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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby JuxtapositionQMan » 2014-04-13, 3:02

I can do all of those, but I have no way to transfer that into IPA. How do I do that?
Well, that was a thing.
speak: [flag=]en[/flag][flag=]eo[/flag]
learning: [flag=]fr[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]ru[/flag][flag=]pt[/flag][flag=]es[/flag][flag=]ro[/flag][flag=]art-jbo[/flag]
hiatus: [flag=]fi[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]la[/flag][flag=]wa[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]eu[/flag][flag=]zh.Hans[/flag][flag=]is[/flag]
want to learn: [flag=]fo[/flag][flag=]be[/flag][flag=]ko[/flag][flag=]he[/flag][flag=]sw[/flag][flag=]hi[/flag][flag=]tr[/flag][flag=]nl[/flag][flag=]cy[/flag][flag=]hu[/flag]

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linguoboy
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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby linguoboy » 2014-04-13, 3:55

JuxtapositionQMan wrote:I can do all of those, but I have no way to transfer that into IPA. How do I do that?

You learn the system. Unfortunately, most of the tutorials I've found online are pretty basic and limited to learning the sounds of English. Your best bet would be to track down a textbook in phonetics.

ˈnaʊ̯ˈbækˈtʉɚ̯ˈɹɛˑgjɨˌlɚliˈʃkɛˑʤəɫd̥ˌkʰɑnvɚˈse̞ɪ̯ʃn̪̩θɹɛˑd
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-04-17, 8:33

jæ, ˈsɔːɹiː JuxtapositionQMan, b̥ʌt̚ juː d̥oʊ̯nʔ noʊ̯ aɪ̯ pʰiː eɪ̯ æt̚ ɑːɫ

næʊ̯, hæʊ̯ əˈbɛʊ̯t̚ ə ˈnəɪ̯s kʰʌp̚ əv tʰiː?
JuxtapositionQMan wrote:stʰɪɫ häɹd tʰɯ̽ ɹid

Ciarán12 wrote:ɘi ˌʊndɚˈstʰændɘm dʒʊsfɘin

noʊ̯ ˈfʌkʰɪŋ weɪ̯

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Re: Let's speak IPA

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-04-17, 12:28

mōdgethanc wrote:
Ciarán12 wrote:ɘi ˌʊndɚˈstʰændɘm dʒʊsfɘin

noʊ̯ ˈfʌkʰɪŋ weɪ̯


ɘi‖ ˌkʰæntˈtɛlɛniˌmɔːɹ


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