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Darky wrote:I also find it so peculiar everytime I realise that English doesn't distinguish between you-singular and you-plural... It's hard and funny to imagine that situation in a native's mind (as I noticed with some English people that don't know other languages)
senatortombstone wrote:But why did YOU, an accusative form survive over YE, the Nominative?
senatortombstone wrote:also, why is the word YE sometimes used as THE in older english
"ye olde shoppe"
Darky wrote: cos I was stating that considering 'you' in general
senatortombstone wrote:But why did YOU, an accusative form survive over YE, the Nominative?
also, why is the word YE sometimes used as THE in older english
"ye olde shoppe"
elgrande wrote:Darky wrote: cos I was stating that considering 'you' in general
Well, it's not like English sg. and pl. "you" are the same in all forms. English speakers naturally make such a distinction for the reflexive forms "yourself" and "yourselves". So, the distinction between second person singular and plural must somehow exist in their minds, too.
Phil A wrote:What exactly is gained by maintaining this distinction in the 21st century? Why can't the French decide always to use either tu or vous, for instance?
Phil A wrote:I think my question is worth posing and that it deserves a rational answer - not because I realistically expect French and German to abandon tu/vous or du/Sie - but in order to explore a little more deeply exactly what it is that keeps those artificial distinctions in place.
If you want my opinion, it is that the distinction does relate to the perceived status of the listener (not necessarily class, but often age or familiarity). From a philosophical point of view, I'm interested in why - apart from the established linguistic convention - one would address your close friend with one pronoun and verb form and address your boss or your teacher with a different pronoun and verb form.
Phil A wrote:Since we are taught in the advanced countries that everyone is equal before the law, and that equal treatment in day-to-day life forms the bedrock of human rights law, it would seem rational to me (again, I don't expect it to happen) for everyone in those countries to address all their fellow citizens in the familiar form, whatever the listeners' status.
Phil A wrote:Obviously, this is not about "hey, pal, wassup", which is slang. I'm talking about standard language here. You don't consider 'du' to be slang, do you?
Phil A wrote:but do others feel that there was any merit in expecting Poles, for instance, to always use ty/wy - and not Pan/Pani/Państwo - in addressing each other?
Phil A wrote:elgrande wrote:Darky wrote: cos I was stating that considering 'you' in general
Well, it's not like English sg. and pl. "you" are the same in all forms. English speakers naturally make such a distinction for the reflexive forms "yourself" and "yourselves". So, the distinction between second person singular and plural must somehow exist in their minds, too.
I agree. I think that we are perfectly well aware that 'you' can mean 'you as an individual' or 'you as a group'. I don't believe that anyone in the English-speaking countries has a problem with that. We are certainly not suffering any confusion about whether we are talking to one person or more.
Darky wrote:Phil A wrote:
Well, it's not like English sg. and pl. "you" are the same in all forms. English speakers naturally make such a distinction for the reflexive forms "yourself" and "yourselves". So, the distinction between second person singular and plural must somehow exist in their minds, too.
I agree. I think that we are perfectly well aware that 'you' can mean 'you as an individual' or 'you as a group'. I don't believe that anyone in the English-speaking countries has a problem with that. We are certainly not suffering any confusion about whether we are talking to one person or more.
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