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Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-12, 16:52
by Prowler
I've been noticing a lot of native English speakers online saying thinks like "would of been" and "could of been". I also notice a lot of people say "funnily enough" and "should have went". I didn't start to notice such things until the least few years, tbh. And some people don't seem to know how to conjugate "bias" either. They say "I'm bias" instead of "I'm biased".

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-13, 14:30
by linguoboy
Prowler wrote:I've been noticing a lot of native English speakers online saying thinks like "would of been" and "could of been".

This particular reanalysis has been around since at least the 18th century, stemming from the homophony of 've and unstressed of (both [əv]).

Prowler wrote:I also notice a lot of people say "funnily enough"

What do you find odd about this?

Prowler wrote:and "should have went". I didn't start to notice such things until the least few years, tbh.

More idiomatic: "I've only started noticing such things within the last few years."

Prowler wrote:And some people don't seem to know how to conjugate "bias" either. They say "I'm bias" instead of "I'm biased".

Most people don't use the corresponding verb; they know bias(ed) only as an adjective. Both cluster simiplification of final /st/ and related hypercorrection of final /s/ to /st/ are common in spoken English. (The roofers who did our condo reanalysed joist as joice and pluralised it joices.)

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-13, 19:39
by Prowler
Well I always write "funny enough" and notice most people do it as well, so it just seems wrong to see "funnily enough" instead, but maybe both forms are correct? Although perhaps one time or another it slipped and I wrote "funnily enough" without realising it?

I also notice Americans and Canadians say "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" like the Brits do. "Couldn't care less" seems to make more sense to me, so I use that version.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-13, 19:53
by linguoboy
Prowler wrote:Well I always write "funny enough" and notice most people do it as well, so it just seems wrong to see "funnily enough" instead, but maybe both forms are correct? Although perhaps one time or another it slipped and I wrote "funnily enough" without realising it?

For me, "funny enough" is the variant which sounds wrong. Enough is an adverb. Only adverbs can modify other adverbs and funny is not an adverb in my speech. Maybe people think of it this way because of expressions like "sounds funny" and "looks funny", but those are predicate uses.

Prowler wrote:I also notice Americans and Canadians say "could care less" instead of "couldn't care less" like the Brits do. "Couldn't care less" seems to make more sense to me, so I use that version.

To me "could care less" is simply an idiom whose internal grammatical structure is irrelevant.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-26, 15:44
by Linguist
What exactly is the difference between
- serpent
- viper
- snake
?

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-26, 23:14
by Dormouse559
Linguist wrote:What exactly is the difference between
- serpent
- viper
- snake
?

"Snake" is the most neutral term, an animal of the suborder Serpentes. "Serpent" is somewhat broader and more poetic/archaic. It can refer to snakes as well as snake-like creatures, especially mythical ones like the Hydra. "Viper" refers to a kind of snake belonging to the family Viperidae.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-27, 6:45
by OldBoring
Besides should of or could of, I've seen shoulda and coulda.
Also I'ma for I'm gonna.

BTW I stopped using Duolingo cuz I was pissed off at it, for not accepting wanna and gonna as valid answers.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-05-28, 14:37
by linguoboy
OldBoring wrote:Besides should of or could of, I've seen shoulda and coulda.

"Shoulda, coulda, woulda" is a colloquial way of dismissing someone's fretting about how things might have turned out differently.

OldBoring wrote:Also I'ma for I'm gonna.

I would say this is more colloquial than the others. It's recently borrowed from AAVE and not all American English-speakers I know accept it as valid in any non-AAVE context.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-06-01, 18:58
by Raumondho02
Hi,
I'm looking for exercises with spelling. I need it for IELTS exam. Something like long numbers or spelling last names.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-06-01, 21:24
by Linguaphile
OldBoring wrote:BTW I stopped using Duolingo cuz I was pissed off at it, for not accepting wanna and gonna as valid answers.

Teachers usually don't accept them as correct in students' writing, and many employers would not want to see them in official correspondence or résumés, etc. That's probably why Duolingo doesn't accept them either. They are accepted enough that they appear in dictionaries, but they are considered informal and a written representation of spoken language. They are often not acceptable in formal written English. (The same is true of "cuz" and other similar words.) :wink: There is also gotta (got to), dunno (don't know), gimme (give me), lemme (let me), kinda (kind of), etc.
They are acceptable in spoken English in almost any context, but in writing they are very informal and mainly used in contexts that are meant to approximate spoken language (quotations, social media, informal correspondence, etc).

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-09, 7:35
by vijayjohn
OldBoring wrote:Also I'ma for I'm gonna.

It's usually spelled imma IME (yes, without capitalization).

Linguistics Twitter managed to amaze me by being even more openly accepting of variation in English than I've seen from linguists in real life. It's made me question how my brother got me to change my accent from an Indian accent to an American one, often making fun of me for how I spoke (and other aspects of my behavior, but I guess the speaking part is the one that's most relevant from a linguistic POV).

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-09, 16:51
by linguoboy
vijayjohn wrote:
OldBoring wrote:Also I'ma for I'm gonna.

It's usually spelled imma IME (yes, without capitalization).

It's hard to find any reliable data on frequency. Wiktionary seems to think that "Imma" is more common than "imma" and lists "I'ma" as a variant, suggesting it's less frequent than either. Personally I find it the superior spelling because "Imma" misleadingly suggests a pronunciation of */ɪmə/. (IMD, that's how I say Emma.)

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 13:16
by Lutrinae
Is it common for native English speakers to use "borrow" instead of "lend" ?

Because I noticed it several times amongst foreign english speakers and it always annoys me, but it's so frequent that I started wondering about it.

Ex: Can anyone borrow me a chair?

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 14:10
by linguoboy
Lutrinae wrote:Is it common for native English speakers to use "borrow" instead of "lend" ?

It is. See definition #6: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/borrow.

Similarly, people around here will also say "itch" for "scratch an itch", e.g. "When I tell you I could have itched my neck off that's putting it lightly!"

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 15:04
by Ciarán12
linguoboy wrote:
Lutrinae wrote:Is it common for native English speakers to use "borrow" instead of "lend" ?

It is. See definition #6: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/borrow.

Similarly, people around here will also say "itch" for "scratch an itch", e.g. "When I tell you I could have itched my neck off that's putting it lightly!"


I don't recall ever hearing anyone user "borrow" to mean "lend" like that, maybe it's a feature of certain AmEng dialects?
I've also definitely never heard anyone use "itch" to mean "scratch"!

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 15:19
by linguoboy
Ciarán12 wrote:I don't recall ever hearing anyone user "borrow" to mean "lend" like that, maybe it's a feature of certain AmEng dialects? I've also definitely never heard anyone use "itch" to mean "scratch"!

If you follow the link, you'll see the qualifications "Upper Midwestern United States" and "Malaysia". I can't speak for the Malaysian usage, but I live in the Upper Midwest and I've definitely heard "Can you borrow me X?"

If it is in fact limited to the Upper Midwest, then it's probably due to foreign influence. German borgen and Dutch lenen can be used to mean either "borrow" or "lend" depending on the objects involved. The same is true of Scandinavian låna/låne. (What's interesting to me is that I've never heard lend or loan extended in this way, although they're cognates of the Dutch and North Germanic terms.)

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 19:59
by Lutrinae
linguoboy wrote:
Lutrinae wrote:Is it common for native English speakers to use "borrow" instead of "lend" ?

It is. See definition #6: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/borrow.

Similarly, people around here will also say "itch" for "scratch an itch", e.g. "When I tell you I could have itched my neck off that's putting it lightly!"


Interesting! It also says that it's proscribed tho, so I guess that it's still better to avoid it?

If it's a regional use of the word, it makes sense.

When it refers about its use in Malay, do you think it's in Malaysia or Singapore? I am curious about this too now.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 20:32
by linguoboy
Lutrinae wrote:Interesting! It also says that it's proscribed tho, so I guess that it's still better to avoid it?

I would say it's fine to use it in informal speech with others who are familiar with this usage. But, yeah, most Commonwealth English (and many North American English) speakers would think you were misusing the word.

Lutrinae wrote:When it refers about its use in Malay, do you think it's in Malaysia or Singapore? I am curious about this too now.

It refers to its use in "Malaysia", not "Malay". Malay has its own words for "borrow"; I don't think it's borrowed the English word.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-11, 20:41
by Car
linguoboy wrote:
Ciarán12 wrote:I don't recall ever hearing anyone user "borrow" to mean "lend" like that, maybe it's a feature of certain AmEng dialects? I've also definitely never heard anyone use "itch" to mean "scratch"!

If you follow the link, you'll see the qualifications "Upper Midwestern United States" and "Malaysia". I can't speak for the Malaysian usage, but I live in the Upper Midwest and I've definitely heard "Can you borrow me X?"

If it is in fact limited to the Upper Midwest, then it's probably due to foreign influence. German borgen and Dutch lenen can be used to mean either "borrow" or "lend" depending on the objects involved. The same is true of Scandinavian låna/låne. (What's interesting to me is that I've never heard lend or loan extended in this way, although they're cognates of the Dutch and North Germanic terms.)

I never use borgen myself (I don't know if there's a regional difference when it comes to that), but that's true for leihen as well.

Re: Discussion Group

Posted: 2019-10-14, 5:50
by vijayjohn
Borrow itself comes from Old English borgian meaning not only both 'to borrow' and 'to lend' but also 'to pledge surety for'.
Ciarán12 wrote:I've also definitely never heard anyone use "itch" to mean "scratch"!

I haven't, either.
Lutrinae wrote:When it refers about its use in Malay, do you think it's in Malaysia or Singapore? I am curious about this too now.

It's apparently used in both Malaysia and Singapore. See e.g. here for Malaysia. Page 21 of An Essential Guide to Singlish also says:
Borrow me Lend me.
Example: "Left my wallet at home man, borrow me ten dollars can?"