Julie's friends

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artart
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Julie's friends

Postby artart » 2022-08-01, 0:04

1) Friends of Julie went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.

2) Julie's friends went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.


Can one use '2' instead of '1'?


I think technically '2' means all of Julie's friends went to Tom's place, but I think that '1' could be used instead of '1', at least in casual speech, especially if the context makes things clear. I'd imagine two or three of her male friends went and talked to Tom....

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-08-01, 4:44

artart wrote:1) Friends of Julie went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.

2) Julie's friends went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.


Can one use '2' instead of '1'?


I think technically '2' means all of Julie's friends went to Tom's place, but I think that '1' could be used instead of '1', at least in casual speech, especially if the context makes things clear. I'd imagine two or three of her male friends went and talked to Tom....

You can say it either way. Neither of them has to mean that all of Julie's friends went to Tom's place, but you are correct that sentence 2 can mean that depending on context.

You could say any of these:
1) Friends of Julie went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.
1b) Friends of Julie's went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.
2) Julie's friends went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.

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Woods
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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Woods » 2022-08-04, 18:09

artart wrote:...

So you don't like our idea of grouping your posts somehow so that they're more organised and not scattered all around the forum?

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby artart » 2022-08-05, 12:14

Thank you both very much.

I do like that idea. But my questions don't come all at once. I post a question when I have one. Maybe I could post a question and then edit it and add a second part if it has not been answered yet. Or maybe post a question in the same thread that I started about another issue?

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Naava » 2022-08-05, 12:34

artart wrote:Or maybe post a question in the same thread that I started about another issue?

I've seen people making threads like "[name]'s questions about English". Any time they have a new question, they add a new post to their thread. I think you could do something like that, too. People will notice when you add a new post, so you don't have to worry nobody would answer you. :) Here's Woods's grammar thread for example, if you'd like to see how it works in practise.

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Woods » 2022-08-06, 0:16

artart wrote:I do like that idea. But my questions don't come all at once. I post a question when I have one. Maybe I could post a question and then edit it and add a second part if it has not been answered yet.

No, no - the idea was that you can post several times in the same thread. You don't need to edit the post - just reply to it when you have more questions.


artart wrote:Or maybe post a question in the same thread that I started about another issue?

Well I noticed almost all my questions revolve around three topics, so I have three threads and rarely ask questions outside of them. As Naava said, several people have their personal threads. You can think how it is best to do it - but it will he easier both for you and everyone if you group your questions into one or not too many threads.

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby artart » 2022-08-06, 8:23

Aaaaaah! OK! I get it now!

Thank you!

So, shall I keep this thread, or shall I start doing what you suggest the next time I start a thread?

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Woods » 2022-08-06, 9:08

artart wrote:So, shall I keep this thread, or shall I start doing what you suggest the next time I start a thread?

Up to you.

You can also edit the title of an existing thread by editing the first post in the thread.


Linguaphile wrote:You can say it either way. Neither of them has to mean that all of Julie's friends went to Tom's place, but you are correct that sentence 2 can mean that depending on context.

You could say any of these:
1) Friends of Julie went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.
1b) Friends of Julie's went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.
2) Julie's friends went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.

Am I the only one to think that the first two sentences sound somewhat incomplete and unnatural, I would add something like:

Some friends of Julie went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.

Or I would just use the last sentence which as said does not necessarily mean that all her friends were present.

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby linguoboy » 2022-08-06, 14:32

Woods wrote:Am I the only one to think that the first two sentences sound somewhat incomplete and unnatural, I would add something like:

Some friends of Julie went to Tom's place and told him to stop harassing her.

I don't think it sounds incomplete or unnatural. I would spontaneously use either version.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

artart
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Re: Julie's friends

Postby artart » 2022-08-08, 2:43

1) They told me every group had to have two doctors. I didn't know if two people in my group were doctors. I had to go ask.

2) I didn't know if two people in my group were doctors. Those people were June and Claire. I knew what everyone else did and I know Pete and Margret were doctors.


Are both of the above correct?

The sentence 'I didn't know if two people in my group were doctors.' has been used with two different meanings in them. In A I don't have anyone specific in mind. In B, I do.

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Woods » 2022-09-01, 8:24

artart wrote:1) They told me every group had to have two doctors. I didn't know if two people in my group were doctors. I had to go ask.

2) I didn't know if two people in my group were doctors. Those people were June and Claire. I knew what everyone else did and I know Pete and Margret were doctors.

Are both of the above correct?

The sentence 'I didn't know if two people in my group were doctors.' has been used with two different meanings in them. In A I don't have anyone specific in mind. In B, I do.


Is your native language Russian?

You need to define "correct" first. Just like in every language, an English phrase can be grammatically correct, but slightly confusing; and you are allowed to make them like that - it all depends on how you want to express it.


So my take is:

1) Grammatically correct, slightly confusing. A less confusing version would be:

They told me every group had to have two doctors. I didn't know if there were two doctors in my group. I had to go ask.

So what I'm saying is that the phrase sounds totally okay, you can just make it even better and more understandable if you want.


2) is less understandable and more confusing. You have to read it a couple of times and think what the author actually means. I'd say it like that:

For two people in my group, I didn't know if they were doctors. Those people were June and Claire. But I knew what everyone else did and I know Pete and Margret were doctors.

If you didn't explain, I wouldn't understand because at the beginning of your sentence it's not clear if you're wondering if there are two doctors in your group or if you're wondering if two particular people in your group are doctors. And then since your second phrase is opposed to the first one, you need to contrast it with a conjunction.


In conclusion, whether you speak English or Russian (if my guess was right), you need to think of the meaning you're conveying and how your reader's thought process would go.

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby artart » 2022-09-02, 12:57

Thanks for the reply.


No, it is not Russian.

Your reply was helpful, regardless.

I just was exploring to see how those sentences could be used. I wasn't looking for the clearest way to formulate the idea,

For two people in my group, I didn't know if they were doctors.

Shouldn't that be 'As for two people in my group....'?

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Re: Julie's friends

Postby Woods » 2022-09-03, 19:04

artart wrote:For two people in my group, I didn't know if they were doctors.

Shouldn't that be 'As for two people in my group....'?

Possibly; I'm known for often leaving out words that should be there so we need to wait for someone else to answer :lol:


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