Does it sound right?

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Woods
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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-03-08, 20:49

to lust over/after someone

It came to me with "over", however all the examples in Lexico are followed by "after," so I guess "over" doesn't work?

Collins dictionary (UK) also mentions "to lust for someone" - however no examples are given, and Webster has no examples either so I can't check the American usage.

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-03-08, 22:13

Woods wrote:to lust over/after someone

It came to me with "over", however all the examples in Lexico are followed by "after," so I guess "over" doesn't work?

Both work. I don't perceive much of a difference in the choice of preposition.

Woods wrote:Collins dictionary (UK) also mentions "to lust for someone" - however no examples are given, and Webster has no examples either so I can't check the American usage.

Hmm. The only example that sounds really natural to me is "lust for life", but here "lust" is a noun, e.g. "She's got a real lust for life". "Lusting for a friend", for instance, doesn't sound wrong but it's not what I would say or would expect to hear from others.
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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby teamsan900 » 2022-03-10, 19:43

I have found a small passage of a quality pass regarding the assembly of a sofa, which sounded weird to me. Along with other languages, which said roughly the same, I am not quite sure if this passage mentioned below sounds natural and correct to native English speakers. Or does this next passage make the impression that it has been translated to you?

“If you want to move the sofa around please do not grab the fabric/leather, cushions or any loose objects. This can damage your furniture. The sofa should be moved by lifting from beneath. Please grab the fixed frame.”

I have the idea that the expressions used, like “do not” and “should be” are too direct for the English cultural conventions. What could be changed to make it more native-like? I would like to hear your insights about it.
Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby teamsan900 » 2022-03-10, 19:46

I have found another small passage of the same quality pass regarding the assembly of a sofa, which also sounded weird. Does this passage sound natural and correct to native English speakers? Or does this part make the impression that it has been translated as well?

“Afterwards the back cushions need to be tenderly clapped around the whole surface. Then pull the outside end of the back cushion with one hand while patting the cushion with the other hand towards the outside. Then continue to the armrests in the same way. Make the above procedures periodically to maintain the furniture's appearance and look.”

to me, the use of “make” (bold) sounds highly un-English. I rather would have used “repeat”, to give it a more natural and native-like appeal to the English speakers. As well, the use of “need to be tenderly clapped”, with the focus on “need to be”, sounds too direct to me for English conventions. What is your take on this? Should anything be changed to make it more native-like? I would like to hear from you.

Thanks in advance for responding.

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-03-10, 20:49

teamsan900 wrote:“If you want to move the sofa around please do not grab the fabric/leather, cushions or any loose objects. This can damage your furniture. The sofa should be moved by lifting from beneath. Please grab the fixed frame.”

I have the idea that the expressions used, like “do not” and “should be” are too direct for the English cultural conventions. What could be changed to make it more native-like? I would like to hear your insights about it.
Thanks in advance for your help.

I don't find the instructions too direct. We're used to written directions being curt and the word "please" softens the direct negative imperative "don't". "Loose objects" is strange, however. It sounds like they're telling you not to lift the sofa by grabbing things which are lying on top of it, which is something I can't imagine anyone attempting.

teamsan900 wrote:“Afterwards the back cushions need to be tenderly clapped around the whole surface. Then pull the outside end of the back cushion with one hand while patting the cushion with the other hand towards the outside. Then continue to the armrests in the same way. Make the above procedures periodically to maintain the furniture's appearance and look.”

to me, the use of “make” (bold) sounds highly un-English. I rather would have used “repeat”, to give it a more natural and native-like appeal to the English speakers. As well, the use of “need to be tenderly clapped”, with the focus on “need to be”, sounds too direct to me for English conventions. What is your take on this? Should anything be changed to make it more native-like? I would like to hear from you.

"Make" is unidiomatic and sounds like translatese. "Repeat" works but I think I'd be more likely to use "Perform".

"need to be" is not too direct for English-speaking politeness conventions, at least not in North America. However, "tenderly" made me smirk. The usual word would be "gently"; "tenderly" has connotations of affection. I'm also not exactly sure what action "clapped around" is describing. Are they talking about fluffing up?
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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-03-14, 12:03

linguoboy wrote:You don't "do" mistakes in English, you "make" them.

So a phrase like "if your friends do the same mistakes as you" is not acceptable?

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-03-14, 15:35

What is better - specialisation of a medical care unit in or into a certain type of procedure?

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-03-14, 16:34

Woods wrote:
linguoboy wrote:You don't "do" mistakes in English, you "make" them.

So a phrase like "if your friends do the same mistakes as you" is not acceptable?

It sounds characteristically non-native.

Woods wrote:What is better - specialisation of a medical care unit in or into a certain type of procedure?

"specialise in".
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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-03-14, 21:09

Thanks, linguoboy!

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-05-29, 10:23

With Finnish, I've been stuck in the most boring phase for too long, which is getting down the basic grammar.

To what extent is it stylistically okay to locate the subordinate clause away from the main one it clarifies, like I have after the adverb?


And I've had another pretty easy one that I've wondered about for a while:

"How are you?"
"I'm good."

At first that struck me as bad grammar (I would have said "I'm fine"), but now it's become so normal to the point that I might use it myself.

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-05-31, 15:28

Woods wrote:With Finnish, I've been stuck in the most boring phase for too long, which is getting down the basic grammar.

To what extent is it stylistically okay to locate the subordinate clause away from the main one it clarifies, like I have after the adverb?

It's hard to make a general statement. To me this sentence sounds very colloquial and slightly awkward.


Woods wrote:And I've had another pretty easy one that I've wondered about for a while:

"How are you?"
"I'm good."

At first that struck me as bad grammar (I would have said "I'm fine"), but now it's become so normal to the point that I might use it myself.

This has long been considered "bad grammar" by prescriptivists, but it is so very common in ordinary colloquial usage nowadays that most people don't bat an eyelash at it. The nice thing about it is that "good" can be modified (e.g. "I'm pretty good", "I'm not so good", etc.), which isn't possible with "fine". Or rather, "I'm pretty fine" has a complete different meaning from "I'm pretty good".
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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-06-20, 16:45

"Even though" at the start of the sentence

Am I right to think that although fits better at the beginning of the sentence, while even though sounds better introducing the second (halfway) independent clause?

Even though he did this and that, he wouldn't mind also doing those other things.

Does it sound better with "although" or am I overanalysing?

Another example, here I'm a bit less inclined to prefer "although" instead, albeit the structure is the same:

"Even though this isn't the topic of that book, they mention a few things about it."

I am not sure if "even though" and "although" count as subordinating or coordinating conjunctions, that's why I called the clause they introduce halfway independent.

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-06-21, 16:47

Woods wrote:"Even though" at the start of the sentence

Am I right to think that although fits better at the beginning of the sentence, while even though sounds better introducing the second (halfway) independent clause?

Even though he did this and that, he wouldn't mind also doing those other things.

Does it sound better with "although" or am I overanalysing?

Another example, here I'm a bit less inclined to prefer "although" instead, albeit the structure is the same:

"Even though this isn't the topic of that book, they mention a few things about it."

I don't think it's positional at all. "Even" is emphatic, so using "even though" places more emphasis on the subordinate clause than "although" does. If you typically emphasise clauses by moving them to the end of a sentence then "even though" will feel more natural to you in this position.

Woods wrote:I am not sure if "even though" and "although" count as subordinating or coordinating conjunctions, that's why I called the clause they introduce halfway independent.

They are subordinating conjunctions. (Several sources list the coordinating conjunctions of English as for, and, nor, but, or, yet, and so and even give "FANBOYS" as a mnemonic for remembering them. This isn't a comprehensive list, but it is pretty close to one.)
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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby Woods » 2022-06-25, 22:44

linguoboy wrote:
Woods wrote:"Even though" at the start of the sentence

Am I right to think that although fits better at the beginning of the sentence, while even though sounds better introducing the second (halfway) independent clause?

Even though he did this and that, he wouldn't mind also doing those other things.

Does it sound better with "although" or am I overanalysing?

Another example, here I'm a bit less inclined to prefer "although" instead, albeit the structure is the same:

"Even though this isn't the topic of that book, they mention a few things about it."

I don't think it's positional at all. "Even" is emphatic, so using "even though" places more emphasis on the subordinate clause than "although" does.

Thank you, linguoboy!

Interesting. I had never noticed that.

Now I guess I need to think if I would like to be more or less emphatic.

So far I've used them interchangeably, and I had a preference for even though, meaning for a very long period of time I'd only ever use although if I wanted to avoid saying even though two times.

You're saying "even though" contains "even"; but "although" has "all", so to me they've always been equal in meaning - I guess I first learnt "although", then I used almost always "even though".
Last edited by Woods on 2022-06-27, 21:31, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Does it sound right?

Postby linguoboy » 2022-06-27, 15:15

Woods wrote:You're saying "even though" contains "even"; but "although" has "all", so to me they've always been equal in meaning - I guess I first learnt "although", then I used almost always "even though".

"All" is not generally emphatic though, only when stressed or used in particular expressions like "at all".
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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