Azhong's Writing Practice.

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azhong
Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-07, 15:08

Linguaphile wrote:For example, English tends to repeat the word "the" a lot. (German doesn't have the same level of repetition of its definite articles precisely because of the case system and the three genders; there is a much wider variety of definite articles that can be used - der, die, das, den, dem...) In English we tend not to notice the repetition of the word "the".

I know your focus is to talk of not caring so much about the repetition of small words. I've totally gotten it. I'm just sharing my personal experiences.
Once, I read an article talking that the German relative pronoun "welche" is used, very literarily in article writing, to avoid repetition of the same relative pronoun in a sentence.

When writing but not oral communication is taken into consideration, I personally think avoiding effectiveless repetition is what an experienced writer will always keep an eye on, in any language. I am surely far from qualified to comment your English sentences, my helper Linguaphile, and as I've said, I know the purpose you made these sentences:
► Show Spoiler

but still, I'll try my best to modify the "that - that/who - that/who" pattern if the sentence is in my article, especially the first three. The last one, that- who - who , sounds better for me compared with the first three.

I'll actually also avoid using the same preposition twice when they are near to each other and there is no preposition between them.

But maybe that's exactly one of the reasons that my English writing is still odd and weird. ^_^

(Besides, I have probably used the relative pronoun "whom" not closely following its preposition many times.)

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-09, 14:59

(Making a fire)
The first scrap of paper was small and the little flame died out on its way. The second scrap was big enough but it fell from the tongs by accident and got moistened on the wet ground. He finally managed to deliver/place/deposit the third burning paper into the brick oven and lit up a leaf. The little pilot flame grew a bit and lit up more leaves around it, but then started decreasing after the paper burned out and, in consequence, the flame died out as if a weak patient failed to stand up from the wheelchair by their own efforts. A small plume of smoke rose and was blown away. A drop of residual rain fell from the eaves. He gazed at the damp pile of leaves and canes in the oven for a while before he left, and soon came back with a utility knife and a birthday cake candle.
Last edited by azhong on 2022-02-04, 13:17, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-01-09, 15:43

azhong wrote:(Making a fire)
The first scrap of paper was small and the little flame died out on its way. The second scrap was big enough but it fell from the clip by accident and got moistened on the wet ground. He finally managed to deliver the third burning paper into the brick oven and lit up a leaf. The little pilot flame grew a bit and lit up more leaves around it, but then started decreasing after the paper burned out and, in consequence, the flame died out as if a weak patient failed to stand up from the wheelchair by their own efforts. A small plume of smoke rose and was blown away. A drop of residual rain fell from the eaves. He gazed at the damp pile of leaves and canes in the oven for a while before he left, and soon came back with a utility knife and a birthday cake candle.

I love this! While reading the first few sentences, I was wondering what was going on, but I think that's what you were going for. You've made starting the fire suspenseful and I like it. I want to know what is going to happen next with the knife and the birthday candle. :mrgreen:

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-10, 4:38

Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-19, 6:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-01-10, 4:43

azhong wrote:
He finally managed to deliver the third burning paper into the brick oven and lit up a leaf.

Is "deliver" a proper register here? How about send, carry, or pass?

Thank you.

Yes, given the context, in my opinion "deliver" works. You could also say "he finally managed to place the third burning paper in the brick oven".

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-11, 4:29

(corrections from Vijay)

There is indeed passive voices in ancient Chinese according to the articles I read in my student time.
"there was a passive voice in Classical Chinese according to some articles I read as a student."

I found a line in English in a YouTube short film. A role,
"... in a short film on YouTube. One of the characters,..."

standing before the dryer of the landromat, found his clothes was stolen, when he said:
"standing in front of a dryer at a laundromat, found out that his clothes were stolen and said,

"Somebody stole my clothes". As a Chinese English-learner, I might say instinctively "my clothes was stolen".
As a Chinese-speaker learning English, I might instinctively say 'my clothes were stolen'.

It's an unpleasant event, not what I've seeked actively.
It's an unpleasant event, not one I sought out."

I will at least jot down抄錄 what you said in your recording in addition to giving you suggestions about your pronunciation...I personally listened to it親耳聽過.
Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-12, 12:01, edited 1 time in total.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-11, 11:12

(Making a fire 02)

He made a few scraps of wax by paring the candle, wrapped the scraps into a small lump with a slip of paper, lit the lump and placed it at the bottom of the leaves, where he had poked out a space with the tongs. Smelling the aroma of burning wax, he looked at the fire. It was little at first, but steady, and was getting bigger and bigger. It swayed, leaped around, and expanded. It broke loose and at last rocketed. Puffs of white smoke were hustling upward and irritating his nose. He stood up, ran more water into the empty pot and covered it with the lid, then he bent back down back and threw more wood into the oven. The pall of white smoke was almost gone now; the fire was hissing and glowing dazzlingly while the flame was emitting burning heat, as if an energetic kid dashes were dashing around on the playground roaring and screaming with laughter.
► Show Spoiler

While drawing thick sticks out of the [s]firewoods[/s firewood in storage, he heard a bird chirping somewhere in his neighbor's lychee tree.
Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-12, 4:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby linguoboy » 2022-01-11, 16:21

azhong wrote:He made a few scraps of wax by paring the candle, wrapped the scraps into a small lump with a slip of paper, lit the lump and placed it at the bottom of the leaves, where he had poked out a space with the tongs.

You don't need the comma before where. In fact, including it makes the sentence more confusing.

azhong wrote:Smelling the aroma of burning wax, he looked at the fire. It was little at first, but steady, and was getting bigger and bigger. It swayed, leaped around, and expanded. It broke loose and at last rocketed. Puffs of white smoke were hustling upward and irritating his nose. He stood up, ran more water into the empty pot and covered it with the lid, then he bent down back down and threw more wood into the oven. The pall of white smoke was almost gone now; the fire was hissing and glowing dazzlingly while the flame was emitting burning heat as if an energetic kid dashes around on the playground roaring and screaming with laughter.

Here you need to make a choice. As if introduces a conterfactual: It isn't this, but it's like this. IMD (but not that of all English speakers), it requires an irrealis verb, e.g. "He spoke as if he were drunk." Regardless, you can't uses a simple present like "dashes". If you want to use that verb form, you need a different conjunction like as on its own. You could also use like with an ing-form, i.e. "like an energetic kid dashing..."

azhong wrote:While drawing thick sticks out of the firewoods in storage, he heard a bird chirping somewhere in his neighbor's lychee tree.

Firewood, like wood, is a mass noun. The plural refers to types of wood, not multiple pieces of it.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-13, 1:07

(A sentence I translated, and the comments from Vijay.)
我和乔林相处将近两年了,可直到现在我还摸不透他那缄默的习惯到底是因为不爱讲话,还是因为讲不出来什么?
An English translation by Gladys Yang:
I have known Qiao Lin for nearly two years, yet still cannot fathom whether he keeps so quiet from aversion厭惡* to talking or from having nothing to say.

*From aversion to talking ... might sound somewhat odd outside a literary context [compared to not liking].

I've been going out with Joe for almost two years,..

...and yet I still can't tell...
...but still I can't tell...
...but I still can't tell...

...if his habit of quietness is because he doesn't like talking, [or because...]
I personally would not use a comma in this sentence because we were taught in school not to.

...if his habit of quietness comes from him not like talking...
comes from him not liking to talk.
Because he doesn't like talking sounds much better, clearer, and more succinct簡潔 to me, though.

or because he can't find something to say.

*or because he can't find something to say?
*or because he can't find something to say, can he?
(Because the original sentence ends with a question mark,...)
In English, the rule is supposed to be that embedded questions do not end in a question mark. [And here whether...( or not) introduces an embedded question.]

...if it's what he doesn't like talking that makes him get used to being quiet. Or is it that he can't find something to say?[/quote]
What he doesn't like talking doesn't make sense to me, but the fact that he doesn't like talking would work.


He is less of a soldier.
They are less like soldiers.

: "...having no idea at all where it might be going",
"...having no idea where it might be going at all",
"...having no idea whatsoever where it might be going".

"reflects on it",
"thinks it over",

making a decision or trying to understand a perspective;

"takes/needs time to let it sink in".
refering more to surprising or shocking information that the person needs some time to get used to in order to understand what they have been told. e.g.:

"...goes home and lets it sink in" "...goes home to let it sink in"

I couldn't say; I don't understand the thought you're describing.
It's hard to tell without more information, but I think...

"reiterate" to repeating what one has said or written
"let me reiterate....",
"I want to reiterate..."

What if...

The construction is a borrowing from African-American Vernacular English:
Past tense:
"I done wrote this letter"= "I wrote this letter"
Perfect tense:
"I'm all done/finished writing this letter".
When the main verb is "do", it is typically left out, e.g.
"I'm all done with the chores" rather than "I'm all done doing the chores".
Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-18, 1:06, edited 3 times in total.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-14, 11:17

(English-learning)

¶ In my experiences of learning English, I've learned almost all everything/entirely by reading books, the most traditional way.
► Show Spoiler
¶ I had my first English book when I was in seventh grade: exactly* the textbook for a student in the grade, the grade to start learning English at school then.
► Show Spoiler
¶ I had my first English book when I entered middle school and became a seventh-grader (the middle school in Taiwan is from seventh grade to ninth grade), exactly the textbook for that grade, when students had to start learning English then. I envied some of my elementary school classmates who had started learning the new subject in a private school earlier when we they* were sixth-graders.
► Show Spoiler
¶ I also envied my younger brother, who, years later when the economic ability/capacity of our family got better and could afford it, would also start learning English earlier before he entered middle school. His textbooks were a series of hardcover, color-printed full-color, pocket-size ones, and students in that class once even had an opportunity to chat with a native speaker! Such luck, anyway, didn't occur to me.
I still remember some sentences I learned in the first lessons of that black-and-white printed, pictureless material/textbook: This Is a book. That is a key. Is that a pencil? No, it is not. It is a pen.

My English teacher of that school year that year taught us only for that year. Our teachers of core subjects changed a lot in eighth grade, when the new team was more experienced and had their two-year mission to help us win a good performance in the high school entrance exam.

I remember designed an activity to help us remember the English alphabet. She called on students to stand in front of the class and write an assigned letter with their hips. It eventually ended up with reluctance, bursts of laughter and embarrassment for a class of all boys more than forty.
"for an all-boy class of more than forty" or just "a class of more than forty boys".
¶ Later, she once taught an English song as an auxiliary material: You are my sunshine. It was much better this time, although the voice could only be loud noise and interference in other classes. ...although the voices of untrained adolescent boys singing together could only be a noise loud and disruptive in neighboring classes.
...could only be a loud and disruptive noise in neighboring classes.
► Show Spoiler
¶ She was young, pretty and possibly just fresh from her college education. Sometimes she wore a light yellow full skirt and, as was the fashion maybe, showed one inch or two of the edge of her white petticoat/half-slip underneath. The narrow belt swayed as she walked along the corridor back to the teachers' office after class while her hair also swayed hanging down on her shoulders or tied in a ponytail.

Was her back view aesthetic charm? No, it was not. It was more. Among other senior female teachers who had been used to wearing conservatively, her alluring clothing might attract her boy students of a small town more than her creative teaching methods.
Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-19, 6:33, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby linguoboy » 2022-01-14, 22:22

azhong wrote:In my experiences of learning English, I've learned almost all by reading books, the most traditional way.

Replace "all" here with either "everything" or "entirely". (The difference is subtle: "everything" would mean everything you've learned, you've learned by reading; "entirely" would mean that your method of learning consists almost entirely of reading.)

azhong wrote:I had my first English book when I was in seventh grade: exactly the textbook for a student in the grade, the grade to start learning English at school then

Perhaps a better word here would be "namely". "Exactly" implies that there couldn't be a better book imaginable for a seventh-grader learning English.

azhong wrote:My English teacher of that school year, I remembered, designed an activity to help us remember the English alphabet. She assigned students going front to write an assigned letter with their hips. It eventually ended up with reluctance, bursts of laughter and embarrassment for a class of all boys more than forty.

"for an all-boy class of more than forty" or just "a class of more than forty boys".

I don't know what "going front" means here. Do you mean those sitting in the front of the classroom?

azhong wrote:Later, she once taught an English song as an auxiliary material: You are my sunshine. It was much better this time, although the voice could only be loud noise and interference in other classes.

1. "material" is another count noun (despite the fact that "materials" also exists a plurale tantum).
2. I don't understand the last sentence. Do you mean that your classrooms were arranged in such a way that your teacher's singing was loud and disruptive for other classes?

azhong wrote:She was young, pretty and possibly just fresh from her college education. Sometimes she wore a light yellow full skirt and, as was the fashion maybe, showed one inch or two of the edge of her white petticoat/half-slip underneath. The narrow belt swayed as she walked along the corridor back to the teachers' office after class while her hair also swayed hanging down on her shoulder or tied in a ponytail.

Normally we'd say "shoulders" unless the hair hung down over only one.

azhong wrote:Was her back view aesthetical charm? No, it was not. Among other senior female teachers' conservative clothing, it was more for adolescent boys in a small town.

This part doesn't make sense to me either. Do you mean she stood out for her clothing despite not being all that attractive otherwise?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-15, 9:44

See the next two quotation.)
Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-17, 23:58, edited 1 time in total.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-16, 2:20

see linquoboy's quatation)
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby linguoboy » 2022-01-17, 17:43

azhong wrote:
azhong wrote:My English teacher of that school year,...
(What if:)
She taught us only for that school year, the first year of my middle school. Our teachers of core subjects changed a lot in eighth grade, when the new team was more experienced and had their two-year mission to help us win a good performance in the high school entrance exam.

Sorry, I made a mistake here. I meant to correct this to "My English teacher of that school year".

azhong wrote:
She assigned students going front to write an assigned letter with their hips.

She assigned students
?(stepping forward and) standing in front? to write...

"She called on students to stand in front of the class and write an assigned letter with their hips."

azhong wrote:
azhong wrote: It was much better this time, although the voice could only be loud noise and interference in other classes.

2. I don't understand the last sentence. Do you mean that your classrooms were arranged in such a way that your teacher's singing* was loud and disruptive for other classes**?

(*Oops, NO, no, no! XD
** Yes)
...although the voices of untrained adolescent boys singing together could only be a noise loud and disruptive in neighboring classes.
...could only be loud and disruptive noise in neighbor classes.

"Voice" needs to be pluralised when it's referring to a chorus of voices unless you're making a statement like "the chorus sang with one voice". It's not generally a mass noun the way "noise" often is.
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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby linguoboy » 2022-01-17, 17:48

azhong wrote:I had my first English book when I entered middle school and became a seventh-grader (the middle school in Taiwan is from seventh grade to ninth grade), exactly the textbook for that grade, when students had to start learning English then. I envied some of my elementary school classmates who had started learning the new subject in a private school earlier when wethey were sixth-graders.

"They" sounds better to me here because, even though you were all sixth-graders at the same time, the fact that some of your future classmates were studying at a different school that year is the whole subject of the sentence.

azhong wrote:I also envied my younger brother, who, years later when the economic ability/capacity of our family got better and could afford it, would also start learning English earlier before he entered middle school. His textbooks were a series of hard-coveredhardcover, color-printedfull-color, pocket-size ones, and students in that class once even had an opportunity to chat with a native speaker! Such luck, anyway, didn't occur to me.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-18, 8:47

(I revise a previous passage.)
The man had woken lying in his bed* had woken up/awakened and kept lying in his bed for quite a while before he eventually opened his eyes.
► Show Spoiler
¶ He stared at the dimness* the dim space of his room for another while.
► Show Spoiler
¶ Crawling slowly toward the foot of the bed*,
► Show Spoiler
¶ he raised himself to sit up sat up as reluctantly as a water buffalo working in a rice field was whipped to move forward.
¶ ... as reluctantly as if he were a water buffalo working in a rice field and were being whipped to move forward.
A dim, pale light softly framed the curtains from behind. Another morning. Another day began again.

¶ He stood up stretching* his hand out/forward**,
► Show Spoiler
¶ slightly poked the curtains aside/parted the curtains and looked out.
► Show Spoiler

to open/pull open/draw open/push open/turn aside the curtain (from covering the window).
to pull open/aside/up/upward[/u] the curtain(s).
The curtain was a single piece, not a pair of curtains. He pulled it open from neither the left side nor the right side; he drew it up from the bottom.

The sky was cloudy and wasn't as bright as for the past few days as it had been for the past few days. Gazing at it, he recalled the weather forecast he had heard repeatedly/in repetition repeated every hour on the news/on the radio yesterday. A cold wave from Siberia was moving south quickly, would arrive today, lower the temperature and possibly bring rain. A bad Bad weather for the day.

His arm withdrew* He withdrew his arm, (the curtains fell,) and at once his gloomy silhouette vanished/dropped out of sight together with the narrow light beam (from the gap in the curtains).
► Show Spoiler
¶ He stood still in the dark silence as if he were a statue, waiting until he felt like getting dressed*. A gecko chirped somewhere in the darkness.
► Show Spoiler


c.f. another version:
The man woke in his room. He remained laying* lying in bed listening to the quietness in the darkness.
► Show Spoiler
¶ Vehicles passed along the streets around his house on occasion*,
► Show Spoiler
¶ their muffled roaring roaring* monotonous.
► Show Spoiler
¶ There were no chirps of birds. After getting bored with the noises, he opened his eyes and, motionlessly, stared at the nothingness for a while. A short string of clicks from a gecko sounded somewhere in the room; he seeked around* sought it/looked around in the dimness turning his head but failed (to find it).
► Show Spoiler
¶ Crawling slowly, he sat up at the foot of the bed, where he halted again for another while, idling. It was morning. Another one again.

"What am I going to do today?" thought the man, not so earnestly though.

Out of the corner of his eye he glimpsed the heavy curtain aside* beside him, which he turned toward and looked at. The curtain was being vaguely framed by soft light leaking in from behind it, as if it was gleaming saintly itself.

He stood up and parted the curtains to look out. The sky was cloudy, not as bright as last morning, nor the mornings before. Then he remembered the weather forecast repeated every hour on the news all the previous day. A cold wave from Siberia was moving south quickly and would arrive today, dramatically lower the temperature and possibly bring rain.

He withdrew his arm, and at once his silhouette vanished together with the incoming light, a narrow beam, as the curtains closed up again. He stood still for another short while before finally starting to dress.
Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-19, 8:36, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby linguoboy » 2022-01-18, 20:40

azhong wrote:(I revise a previous passage.)
Q: I can't realize why awhile doesn't work in the sentence. I think it's grammatical. Too literary?
He opened eyes and stared at the naught nothingness awhile for a while..

It's grammatical, I just think it sounds better with for.

azhong wrote:The man had woken lying in his bed for quite a while before he eventually opened his eyes.

You need to keep in mind when using these -ing-constructions that the action they describe occurs at the same time as the action of the main verb.

(1) The man had woken lying in his bed. = The man was lying in his bed when he woke up.

If the action described by the main verb is ongoing, the action of the -ing-form is assume to be ongoing as well. (E.g. "They walked towards us, singing.") But if the action described by the main verb is punctual (i.e. it lasts only for a moment), there's no such assumption. Consider:

(2) The man awoke lying in his bed and immediately sat bolt upright.

In this example, the act of lying ends immediately after the man wakes up.

So to express that the man continued lying after he'd woken up, you need two separate clauses.

(Also, as you might have gathered from my examples, it's very rare to use "wake" alone as an intransitive verbs. Normally you "wake up" (informal) or "awaken" (formal, literary).)

azhong wrote:He stared at the dimness of his room for another while.

This is a bit weird. You can't really stare at dimness. Dimness is just the effect of low light on visible objects.

azhong wrote:Crawling slowly toward the foot of the bed, he raised himself to sit up.

I'm not sure what you're trying to express here that wouldn't be conveyed more simply with "he sat up".

azhong wrote:He stood up stretching his hand forward, slightly parted the curtains (from the middle)

Where else would he part them?

azhong wrote:The sky was cloudy and wasn't as bright as it had been for the past few days. Gazing at it, he recalled the weather forecast he had heard repeated every hour on the news yesterday. A cold wave from Siberia was moving south quickly, would arrive today, lower the temperature and possibly bring rain. A bBad weather for the day.

"Weather" is not typically a count noun.

azhong wrote:His arm withdrew

Again, unusual phrasing. You'd normally only see this expressed this way if someone else was viewing the action from outside.

azhong wrote:(the curtains fell,) and at once his gloomy silhouette vanished together with the narrow light beam (from the gap in the curtains). He stood still in the dark silence as if he were a statue, waiting his mood for dressing.

This is absolutely bizarre. Do you mean "waiting until he felt like getting dressed"?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-19, 1:51

Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-19, 7:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-01-19, 2:20

This one is clearer:
azhong wrote:...he sat up as reluctantly as if he were a water buffalo working in a rice field and were being whipped to move forward.


"Unveiled" is not the best verb here:
azhong wrote:He stood up stretching his hand forward to unveil the curtain. It was an ?one-piece curtain? but not ?a pair of curtains?. He unveiled it neither from the left side nor the right side; he did it from the bottom.

I would usually simply say that I "opened" or "pulled open" the curtains or, in the case of a curtain that opens from bottom to top, you can also say that you "pulled up" or "drew up" the curtains.
Such as:
It was an one-piece curtain but not a pair of curtains [or: The curtain was a single piece, not a pair of curtains.] He pulled it open from neither the left side nor the right side; he drew it up from the bottom.


azhong wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
He stood still in the dark silence as if he were a statue, waiting his mood for dressing.

This is absolutely bizarre. Do you mean "waiting until he felt like getting dressed"?

("Does "he felt like getting dressed" mean that he had actually dressed already but felt mentally he didn't yet?)
He didn't dress yet, and he'd not like to dress yet, either/and he wasn't ready, either. He stood still waiting his ?mood/energy? (to dress). A gecko chirped somewhere in the darkness.

I agree with Linguoboy's suggestion that "He felt like getting dressed" is a good way to say this. It doesn't mean that he is actually dressed already; it means that he feels like he wants to do it. I think this is what he is doing, right? He is waiting until he feels like he wants to get dressed, because he doesn't feel that way yet. The normal way to say this would be that he was "waiting until he felt like getting dressed".

azhong

Re: Azhong's Writing Practice.

Postby azhong » 2022-01-19, 3:21

Last edited by azhong on 2022-01-19, 7:17, edited 1 time in total.


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