Azhong's Reading Practice

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azhong
Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-26, 2:52

https://youtube.com/shorts/nNUWJoBecS8
Reserving judgments is a matter of infinite hope. I am still a little afraid of missing something if I forget that, as my father snobbishly suggested, and I snobbishly repeat, a sense of the fundamental decencies is parcelled out unequally at birth.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-27, 7:55

(I've newly learned on the internet yesterday that the resonant space of speaking English is different from that of speaking Chinese. The former is in a backward position of the mouth, with opening the back space inside the mouth bigger, while the Chinese speakers are more accustomed to voice with the front space in the mouth. I've started to realize and practice it in this reading.)

https://youtu.be/D2HBtxKD8Kk
In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since.

"Whenever you feel like criticizing any one," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had."

He didn't say any more but we've always been unusually communicative in a reserved way, and I understood that he meant a great deal more than that. In consequence I'm inclined to reserve all judgments, a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me and also made me the victim of not a few veteran bores. The abnormal mind is quick to detect and attach itself to this quality when it appears in a normal person, and so it came about that in college I was unjustly accused of being a politician, because I was privy to the secret griefs of wild, unknown men. Most of the confidences were unsought—frequently I have feigned sleep, preoccupation, or a hostile levity when I realized by some unmistakable sign that an intimate revelation was quivering on the horizon—for the intimate revelations of young men or at least the terms in which they express them are usually plagiaristic and marred by obvious suppressions. Reserving judgments is a matter of infinite hope. I am still a little afraid of missing something if I forget that, as my father snobbishly suggested, and I snobbishly repeat, a sense of the fundamental decencies is parcelled out unequally at birth.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-28, 7:02

https://youtube.com/shorts/-jzmIZ4JCG4
My family have been prominent, well-to-do people in this middle-western city for three generations. The Carraways are something of a clan, and we have a tradition that we're descended from the Dukes of Buccleuch, but the actual founder of my line was my grandfather's brother who came here in fifty-one, sent a substitute to the Civil War, and started the wholesale hardware business that my father carries on today.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-29, 3:55

A question please: will a native speaker omit the pronunciation of "th" when reading the phrase "with special reference" and change it for something like "wi' special reference"? I find it uneasy for me to pronounce "th" and "s" together. Do you still put your mouth into between the teeth for "th" in this case? Thank you.

Linguaphile
Posts:5372
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-09-29, 4:00

azhong wrote:A question please: will a native speaker omit the pronunciation of "th" when reading the phrase "with special reference" and change it for something like "wi' special reference"? I find it uneasy for me to pronounce "th" and "s" together. Do you still put your mouth into between the teeth for "th" in this case? Thank you.

Yes, I do pronounce the th, but if you omit it I don't think anyone would have any difficulty understanding. In fact, in fast speech, they might not even notice.
I've also heard some non-native English speakers pronounce a sequence like "with special reference" as "wiv special reference" and that sounds okay as well. Again, not native-like, but if you don't mind sounding like you have an accent, it works.

Linguaphile wrote:Another thing I noticed it that it says like you say "she's used to fly around outside", instead of "she's used to flying around outside".

I was just looking back at earlier posts in this thread and noticed how badly I typed the above. Not "Another thing I noticed it that it says like you say..." but rather "Another thing I noticed is that it sounds like you say..." I guess you understood me, but I must have really been in a hurry when I typed that!

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-29, 4:23

Do me another favor please, Linguaphile. Pls listen to the audiobook at around 3:32, where he is reading "but I am supposed to look like him". I feel somehow the "to" he read sounds more like "of" to me. Is it exactly the way you smooth the pronunciation or did he have a "mis-read" here? Thank you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGLXF1M4K4&t=209s

Linguaphile
Posts:5372
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-09-29, 4:58

azhong wrote:Do me another favor please, Linguaphile. Pls listen to the audiobook at around 3:32, where he is reading "but I am supposed to look like him". I feel somehow the "to" he read sounds more like "of" to me. Is it exactly the way you smooth the pronunciation or did he have a "mis-read" here? Thank you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGLXF1M4K4&t=209s

It's not really "of", but just the vowel sound found in the word "of", without the "f". The phrase "supposed to" often gets run together, much like "going to" often becomes "gonna" in certain contexts. It ends up sounding like "supposta" or even "sposta", both of which are common in spoken language.
What is a little different about this recording is that he also nearly drops the t as well ("I'm supposa look like him") - I can't quite hear if the t is there, if it is there it is barely there. In my experience it's more common to pronounce the "t" (which technically is the -ed from the end of the "supposed") than to reduce/drop it the way this speaker does.

These are common in spoken language:
I am supposed to look like him.
I'm supposta look like him.
I'm sposta look like him.


Sometimes I also hear people saying I'm spost to look like him." or other variations. I think this speaker's "supossa", if that's what he is saying, is just another variation.

Note that these shortened versions (supposta/sposta) are mainly used only if another verb comes after it. So I might say "I'm supposta look like him" or "We're not supposta do that", because both of those have a verb after "supposta". But I would say "I don't think you should do that. We're not supposed to." (Not: "We're not supposta," because there is no verb after it.)

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-29, 9:37

https://youtube.com/shorts/3TkRcdSSDH4
I never saw this great-uncle, but I'm supposed to look like him—with special reference to the rather hard-boiled painting that hangs in Father's office. I graduated from New Haven in 1915, just a quarter of a century after my father, and a little later I participated in that delayed Teutonic migration known as the Great War.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-09-30, 7:36

https://youtube.com/shorts/0EHVIdi7AV0
I enjoyed the counter-raid so thoroughly that I came back restless. Instead of being the warm center of the world, the middle-west now seemed like the ragged edge of the universe—so I decided to go east and learn the bond business.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-10-03, 3:49

https://youtu.be/E6w7lE82jLA
Everybody I knew was in the bond business, so I supposed it could support one more single man. All my aunts and uncles talked it over as if they were choosing a prep-school for me, and finally said, "Why—ye-es" with very grave, hesitant faces. Father agreed to finance me for a year, and after various delays I came east, permanently, I thought, in the spring of twenty-two.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-10-04, 3:24

(reading a paragraph.)
https://youtu.be/lY-h6QdOBC0
My family have been prominent, well-to-do people in this middle-western city for three generations. The Carraways are something of a clan and we have a tradition that we're descended from the Dukes of Buccleuch, but the actual founder of my line was my grandfather's brother who came here in fifty-one, sent a substitute to the Civil War and started the wholesale hardware business that my father carries on today.

I never saw this great-uncle but I'm supposed to look like him—with special reference to the rather hard-boiled painting that hangs in Father's office. I graduated from New Haven in 1915, just a quarter of a century after my father, and a little later I participated in that delayed Teutonic migration known as the Great War. I enjoyed the counter-raid so thoroughly that I came back restless. Instead of being the warm center of the world the middle-west now seemed like the ragged edge of the universe—so I decided to go east and learn the bond business. Everybody I knew was in the bond business so I supposed it could support one more single man. All my aunts and uncles talked it over as if they were choosing a prep-school for me and finally said, "Why—ye-es" with very grave, hesitant faces. Father agreed to finance me for a year and after various delays I came east, permanently, I thought, in the spring of twenty-two.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-10-05, 4:58

A question to the "and already crumbling" of this passage: Does it go parallel to the "and rising smoke"? Or I don't know the grammer of this sentence. Even so, the sentence construction is still odd to me. Have I misunderstood anything?
...ridges and hills and grotesque gardens where ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air.


https://youtu.be/h3EKuN4A2ts
About half way between West Egg and New York the motor-road hastily joins the railroad and runs beside it for a quarter of a mile, so as to shrink away from a certain desolate area of land. This is a valley of ashes—a fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens where ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air.

Linguaphile
Posts:5372
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-10-05, 5:56

azhong wrote:A question to the "and already crumbling" of this passage: Does it go parallel to the "and rising smoke"? Or I don't know the grammer of this sentence. Even so, the sentence construction is still odd to me. Have I misunderstood anything?
...ridges and hills and grotesque gardens where ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air.

It's an oddly-written passage, full of metaphor and exaggeration. He is saying that in this "valley of ashes" (which is really the poor, dirty part of the city) everything is grey. When he says "ashes take the form of houses and chimneys and rising smoke," what he means is that all of these things are grey because of the dirty (ash-filled) air. Naturally these things can't actually be made out of ashes; he is saying that everything is the same grey color so that it looks like it is all made out of ashes. Even the men are ash-grey (and this is not meant to be literal, but he is saying the people are poor, sad, dirty, hopeless - any or all of those things, without really saying it directly).
As for the grammar, no, "and already crumbling" isn't related to the rising smoke. It's like this:

...ridges and hills and grotesque gardens where ashes take the forms...
(1) of houses and chimneys and rising smoke
and
(2) of men who move dimly and already crumbling[/b] through the powdery air
Ashes take forms of houses, chimneys, rising smoke, and men. (I understand it this way because both of those parts have the word "of" in front of them.)
So what is "already crumbling"? The men! Again it is an unusual, creative way of saying they are poor and hopeless.

This is poetic language. It isn't the way people normally speak, but a poetic style used in the novel, describing things by comparing them to other things, hinting at the situation (poor, dirty, hopeless) without directly saying it, by comparing the situation to ashes and things (people!) that are crumbling.

Also, this might help you understand the situation being described: railroads often run through the poorest parts of towns. This is largely because the places near the railroad tracks aren't desirable places to live; the trains are noisy so people don't want to live close to them, where passing trains will shake their houses and wake them up in the middle of the night. So those houses near the railroad tracks tend to be the cheapest, where poorer people can afford to live.
The railroad is also often in the industrial part of a city, so that the materials made in factories can easily be put onto the trains. These areas are often dirty, or were historically, due to pollution from the factories.
All of this also means that if a person is travelling on a train, looking out the window they will see the poorest and dirtiest parts of the various cities they pass through. Here, in the quote below the motor road only runs next to the railroad for a very short way (a quarter of a mile) as if it that area is so terrible that even the road doesn't want to be there. Again, this can't be understood as a literal situation; of course roads can't "want" to be somewhere. But it gives the impression of a very poor, hopeless, desolate area, which the richer people don't want to see or think about. If those rich people are travelling on a train, they don't want to spend the whole train journey looking out the window at those poor, dirty, industrial, desolate parts of the cities they pass through. They probably don't even want to think of those people as real people with real problems.
So to describe all of this, Fitzgerald has described these areas, and the people who live there, as being made of ash.

About half way between West Egg and New York the motor-road hastily joins the railroad and runs beside it for a quarter of a mile, so as to shrink away from a certain desolate area of land. This is a valley of ashes—a fantastic farm where ashes grow like wheat into ridges and hills and grotesque gardens where ashes take the forms of houses and chimneys and rising smoke and finally, with a transcendent effort, of men who move dimly and already crumbling through the powdery air.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-10-05, 6:41

Thank you, Linguaphile. Now that having read your thorough explanation, I can see the narration is connected with money, a theme of this novel.
But, in the sentence construction you said, isn't the phrase below ungrammatical then? I suppose an "are" or some other better verb is needed since there is an "and".
...of men who move dimly and [are] already crumbling through the powdery air.

The ashes take the forms of men.
The men move dimly.
The men are also already crumbling...

Linguaphile
Posts:5372
Joined:2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-10-05, 13:21

azhong wrote:Thank you, Linguaphile. Now that having read your thorough explanation, I can see the narration is connected with money, a theme of this novel.
But, in the sentence construction you said, isn't the phrase below ungrammatical then? I suppose an "are" or some other better verb is needed since there is an "and".
...of men who move dimly and [are] already crumbling through the powdery air.

The ashes take the forms of men.
The men move dimly.
The men are also already crumbling...

Actually the way understand it is like this:
...of men who move dimly and [move] already crumbling through the powdery air.
The ashes take the forms of men.
The men move dimly.
The men move already crumbling.

I suppose another way to write this would be:
...of men who move dimly, already crumbling, through the powdery air.

I don't think it's ungrammatical, but it is unusual, so I would say it's not a good line to mimic in your own writing. The style is closer to poetry than to ordinary speech (and closer to poetry than prose typically is as well).

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-10-08, 5:53

https://youtube.com/shorts/VxfLItInogc
Occasionally a line of grey cars crawls along an invisible track, gives out a ghastly creak and comes to rest, and immediately the ash-grey men swarm up with leaden spades and stir up an impenetrable cloud which screens their obscure operations from your sight.

azhong

Re: Azhong's Reading Practice

Postby azhong » 2021-11-27, 9:17

https://youtube.com/shorts/ozDojmrOZic
The practical thing was to find rooms in the city, but it was a warm season, and I had just left a country of wide lawns and friendly trees, so when a young man at the office suggested that we take a house together in a commuting town it sounded like a great idea.


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