How to be an immigrant?

[xBlackHeartx]

My country's been going downhill a long time. I thought about leaving the country near the end of Bush's term (I was still in school for most of his career as president). I lost interest under Obama, but now with Trump in office, and my country falling to pieces, I've started seriously thinking about it again.

Problem is, I don't know where I would want to go. I've never set foot outside my own country. Heck, I've only ever been to two states in my life (and that's solely because I live right on the border between two states). I don't know how to go about figuring out where else I would want to live. When I try to do research on countries I keep getting contradictory information, and a lot of it seems to be aimed at tourists rather than people who are seriously looking into making that country their new home. And I live in the US, so visiting other countries isn't too practical (aside for Canada and all the third-world countries in central and south america). I don't think I'm going to get to visit other countries much in my life with how prohibitively expensive it is.

If it matters, I've mostly been looking at Europe, mostly the Scandinavian countries (I like how left-leaning they seem to be). But really I don't know how I would go about deciding if any of these countries are places I would actually like to spend the rest of my life. And that's not even covering the problem of becoming a citizen and whatnot. Or the fact that Europe in general seems to be becoming more xenophobic due to all the refugees. And I've noticed a lot more hate recently towards Americans. I was banned from wordreference not too long ago, solely for being an American. And talking to people on stack exchange, all I got was I should stay where I am, and that they would be laughing as they watched my homeland burn.

I know it'll take a while, but I would like to get out of this country before it collapses. Yes, I seriously believe that I will live to see the end of my homeland. At this point, I doubt this country will even see another election.

[h34]

If you decide to go to Germany, perhaps this link can be helpful:
http://www.bamf.de/EN/Willkommen/willkommen-node.html

[linguoboy]

There's really no substitute for a trial period of living abroad. I never felt more American than when I lived in Germany. It also led me to the conclusion that I wouldn't want to live abroad unless I could afford to visit my family at least once a year.

[vijayjohn]

I have considered leaving this country many times with my entire family for India, even though some of my relatives actually support Donald Chump, because I am a brown person and brown people in this country are sometimes assumed to be Muslim terrorists and are killed no matter how they may lean politically. It's a big risk to take, though, and I don't think it's worth it yet. I disagree that the US is going to collapse in your lifetime just because of who our president is.

That being said, while I'm no expert on this, if you really want to leave, I'd suggest Sweden. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that it's generally easier to find a job there without a permanent residence permit (than it would be here, for example). I would hope that should give you enough money to afford to leave the country as well. Other Scandinavian countries and/or Germany might work as well.

[xBlackHeartx]

I'm expecting to see a civil war in the next year or two, with white supremacy and every form of bigotry possible rising like you wouldn't believe. I doubt I'll even get through college before everything collapses.

[vijayjohn]

I feel they have already risen like I wouldn't believe since Chump already embodies all kinds of bigotry, but yeah, I can see that getting worse. I don't know whether a civil war will break out; of course, I hope not but maybe, who knows? I don't see any indication of one brewing, though, and I'm not sure why that should be the end of the country; the US has already been through a civil war before that was motivated more by racism than some people want to admit.

[JackFrost]

Ok, but immigrating is not easy though. One can't easily move out of the country and stay like that without being forced to return home for many reasons such as them not wanting you (ex. not having skills they're looking for, you don't speak their language good enough, etc.), no other visa options, difficulty to find a job, etc. And it can cost you a lot of money. I spent a few thousand dollars over the course of ten years just to stay legally in Canada.

I know it'll take a while, but I would like to get out of this country before it collapses. Yes, I seriously believe that I will live to see the end of my homeland. At this point, I doubt this country will even see another election.

Hello... it survived the Civil War... In any case, it's much more likely that it'll softly decline from the top spotlight with time than collapsing in very unpredictable manners.

[xBlackHeartx]

Yeah, sure, all civil wars end well. Just look at how well Syria is doing. Oh wait, IT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.

And I'm not sure if you're trying to troll me or it seriously is hopeless. I'm going to err on the side of you being a troll, considering my experience with other mods on this site, and anyone I've interacted with that knows I'm an American. No offense. But I think I would like someone else's opinion on whether or not I'm trapped in this obviously collapsing country.

[vijayjohn]

IT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE.

Yes, it does. It's just in a terrible war right now.

And I'm not sure if you're trying to troll me or it seriously is hopeless. I'm going to err on the side of you being a troll, considering my experience with other mods on this site, and anyone I've interacted with that knows I'm an American. No offense. But I think I would like someone else's opinion on whether or not I'm trapped in this obviously collapsing country.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know why you keep insisting that people here are trying to troll you. No one is. Really. We just have some opinions that happen to be different from yours. It's not even that different from your opinion in this case. I can kind of understand your concerns about a civil war potentially breaking out, and like I said, I'm somewhat sympathetic with the idea of emigrating and very sympathetic with concerns about rising levels of xenophobia and bigotry. Still, Jack is right that emigrating is not easy, and he is someone who actually has done it, unlike either of us.

[xBlackHeartx]

The last I heard of Syria was that the US, Russia, and Iraq were vying for control of the territory that was once Syria. Though don't ask me why Iraq would be contesting the US and Russia over territory, or anything in general.

And living in the US, there's no way in hell I could accumulate thousands of dollars. Most people in this country today have to starve themselves just to pay their taxes. You really think I'll ever see thousands of dollars?????

And yes, I was thinking, there's no way in hell I'll ever accumulate enough money to leave this country, for any reason. Hell, visiting another country is considered a rare luxury here, reserved for the wealthy and retirees. And besides, I'm acrophobic, so I doubt I could stand riding on a plane all the way across the Atlantic, let alone do it again to go back home, and do it a few more times to figure out if there's any place that would welcome an American.

[vijayjohn]

The last I heard of Syria was that the US, Russia, and Iraq were vying for control of the territory that was once Syria. Though don't ask me why Iraq would be contesting the US and Russia over territory, or anything in general.

I have no idea where you could have heard that because it's not. Both Russia and Iraq are backing the Syrian government under Bashar al-Assad. The US is supporting Rojava, which AFAIK seeks only an independent Kurdistan, not to dismantle the entire government of Syria. All of these people are fighting ISIL, not to control Syria themselves AFAIK.

And living in the US, there's no way in hell I could accumulate thousands of dollars. Most people in this country today have to starve themselves just to pay their taxes. You really think I'll ever see thousands of dollars?????

If you can get a job, then of course you will. Even at minimum wage, you'd make at least a thousand dollars within less than three weeks.

And yes, I was thinking, there's no way in hell I'll ever accumulate enough money to leave this country, for any reason. Hell, visiting another country is considered a rare luxury here, reserved for the wealthy and retirees.

It is? I thought visiting many other countries was on most Americans' bucket lists. Also, most immigrants I know here go on visits to their home countries at least a few times.

And besides, I'm acrophobic, so I doubt I could stand riding on a plane all the way across the Atlantic, let alone do it again to go back home, and do it a few more times to figure out if there's any place that would welcome an American.

I'm afraid of heights, too, but I've been on planes so many times I lost count years ago. It can be a little scary (it certainly was for me, though I don't think it is for everybody) the first few times because you're not used to it at first, there is turbulence, the plane is at an angle relative to the ground, and you might get seasick or something, but this is why there are barf bags on planes just in case you do. You will not see anything but the interior of the plane during takeoff.

[xBlackHeartx]

I was saying that there is no way to accumulate money. My mother is retiring in eight years, and she's still nowhere close to building up a retirement fund, despite making over 800 a week at one point. Right now I'm taking courses to become a programmer, but with how many people are going into it (since its really the only career available anymore, thanks to worthless idiot programmers), I doubt I'll be able to find a job after a graduate. That, and I'm a millenial, so no one's going to want to hire me anyway.

Oh, and to hell with this bullshit forum.

[Karavinka]

Every country is different in that regard and you'll need to research them individually. Pick a country, and go to their immigration office website and see what the requirements for the permanent residency or citizenship is. It may be possible to obtain permanent residency without traveling there, though it may take years (yes) of paperwork. Others may demand a history of living in the country. Since this is going to be a major lifetime project, plan accordingly.

[הענט]

How much easier is to get a visa in Canada compared to the US?
For me Canada has always been a bit of Europe on the American continent, but I guess there's more than meets the eye. Dehin? Serafin?

[JackFrost]

How much easier is to get a visa in Canada compared to the US?
For me Canada has always been a bit of Europe on the American continent, but I guess there's more than meets the eye. Dehin? Serafin?

There's no easy answer, you know? How easily you can get a visa depends heavily on your nationality. Some nationalities have a high refusal rate whereas some others don't have that sort of issue. I don't think Canada is considerably more lax than the US regarding visa issuance. You need to apply. You need a return ticket. You need to do an interview. You need to show your police papers. Etc. Canada has the same allure as the US: many people would love to settle there, so they must assure themselves that a person who's been issued a visa will not use it to sneak into Canada to settle there illegally.

[vijayjohn]

How much easier is to get a visa in Canada compared to the US?
For me Canada has always been a bit of Europe on the American continent, but I guess there's more than meets the eye. Dehin? Serafin?

As far as I can tell, Canada in general is like the US in most respects except that it has two official languages and a certain place called Quebec, it doesn't have an extremely shitty foreign policy but rather a national inferiority complex because it's not the US or Russia, and the government is apparently also less shitty.

[Karavinka]

At this moment Canada might be slightly easier than the US. The immigrant quota and the refusal rate fluctuate between governments, Canada and the US no exception. Under the Liberal/Democrats, a little easier. Under the Conservatives/Republicans, a little harder.

I don't know the details of the US immigration law, but in Canada, you can apply not only to the federal government, but also directly to the provincial government. That is, the less popular destinations are more likely to accept new applications. And that is Quebec.

When my family came to Canada, we applied through Quebec, but settled in Alberta - but that was some 17 years ago, 20 years if I include the time spent doing the long paperwork and waiting. I don't think that works anymore; you are more likely to be conditionally granted a permanent residency, and that condition is likely to include having to actually live and be productive in Quebec. And of course you'll have to know French.

If you bring money and intent to open a business, you're more likely to be accepted as you will produce jobs in Canada. If you are just bringing yourself and are looking for a job, Canada doesn't need one more person competing in the job market unless you're bringing highly in-demand skills. This is going to be the most difficult thing; you need to convince them that you're useful.

[voron]

It's very easy to get 1 year residence permit in Turkey. You just have to provide:
1) 1 year long rent contract
2) 1 year long health insurance
3) print out from your bank account which shows $6000 on it ($500 per month)

The permit can then be extended for 3, and then for 5 years. After 7 years you can apply for citizenship.

This is so call tourism aimed permit which doesn't give the right to work. To get a work permit you should find an employer and he needs to apply for you. It's also not very hard if the employer cares enough about you.

I wonder where else it is relatively easy (and not expensive) to get a residence permit. I guess it's hard everywhere in the developed countries, so I should be looking at the developing ones, but not all of them have loose regulations either. In my own country Belarus it's hard: you can only stay if you are a student, open a company here (and show proof that this company does real business and not fictitious), or get married to a local.

[vijayjohn]

Idk about the specifics, but I'd think India should be relatively easy. Only problem I know of is that the bureaucracy sucks and is nightmarishly inefficient.

[voron]

Only problem I know of is that the bureaucracy sucks and is nightmarishly inefficient.

Turkey is not very efficient either. The first time I stayed in Turkey I applied for a 6-month permit, and when I actually received it there were just a couple of weeks left till its expiration (since the issue date is considered to be the application date).

Vijay, do you think getting the paperwork done in India would be impossible without the knowledge of one of the local languages, or would English suffice?