Rock of all kinds

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What subgenres do you listen to?

Hard
5
10%
Glam
2
4%
Shoegaze
3
6%
Math
1
2%
Experimental
3
6%
Alternative
5
10%
Punk
4
8%
Post-Rock
4
8%
Emo
1
2%
Garage
1
2%
Symphonic
1
2%
Grunge
2
4%
Country/Rockabilly
1
2%
Folk
4
8%
Electronic
3
6%
Psychedelic
2
4%
Progressive
5
10%
Ambient
2
4%
Other
2
4%
 
Total votes: 51

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OldBoring
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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby OldBoring » 2016-05-18, 15:40

vijayjohn wrote:Really? Huh. So...when people in China hear "rock," they don't think of Chinese rock?

Yea, I meant when they think of Chinese rock, they think of the Hong Kong singers of the 80s and 90s, like Beyond (a Hong Kong band with an English name).
Isn't that pretty much what rock is, though? :lol:

But they scream randomly without following the music at all. :lol:

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-05-18, 15:43

OldBoring wrote:Yea, I meant when they think of Chinese rock, they think of the Hong Kong singers of the 80s and 90s, like Beyond (a Hong Kong band with an English name).

Right, I forgot about the Hong Kong band. :doh: Whenever I think of Chinese rock, the first name that leaps to mind for me is Cui Jian (actually, that's pretty much the only name I can specifically think of...oh, no wonder. That's the only name Lonely Planet mentions :lol:). I must be old. :P Well, that would make sense if you're OldBoring because I'm even older than you! :lol:

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby OldBoring » 2016-05-18, 16:28

Oh right, I forgot about Cui Jian! :silly: Yea, he's probably the most famous contemporary rock singer.
Apparently he's around the same age as the members of Beyond and was popular around the same time. With the difference that Beyond separated while he is still active in the music scene.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-18, 23:30

Koko wrote:no, was talking to mōd. I would expect someone who is a fan of rock to know ambient and electronic are subgenres of rock, but then again, we all like to stay in our own little areas of comfort and I certainly wouldn't know symphonic was a thing without certain friends :P
No, I've been listening to rock since you were in grade school and this is the first time I've ever heard of "ambient rock" or "electronic rock". Could you give me some examples, please? Because to my understanding, electronic is its own genre, and ambient is a subgenre of it.
vijayjohn wrote:Actually, I think mōdgethanc has posted some rock songs here and also been sucked into long debates with johnklepac about rock and rock bands before (among other things).
Ugh, I think he argued with me about prog rock one time. The most pretentious, overblown genre and the most stubborn user here. What a great combination.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-05-19, 0:28

mōdgethanc wrote:Ugh, I think he argued with me about prog rock one time.

Yeah, that sounds about right. (I think I might have even found that argument just before I wrote that last post).

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 0:33

mōdgethanc wrote:No, I've been listening to rock since you were in grade school and this is the first time I've ever heard of "ambient rock" or "electronic rock". Could you give me some examples, please? Because to my understanding, electronic is its own genre, and ambient is a subgenre of it.

Here's an ambient (post-)rock song, by Lights and Motion.
http://youtu.be/6zYu0OqZ7T0

Examples of electronic rock artists include: Radiohead, New Order, Muse, Imagine Dragons, Linkin Park. These often go by more mainstream classifications (like indie pop, alt rock, etc), but definitely fall under the electronic rock genre.

For the record, ambient and electronic can be subgenres of almost anything. Ambient pop, ambient metal, electronic metal, electronicore (fusion of electronic and metalcore). I think the most common ambient rock is ambient post-rock.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-19, 3:46

Koko wrote:Examples of electronic rock artists include: Radiohead, New Order, Muse, Imagine Dragons, Linkin Park. These often go by more mainstream classifications (like indie pop, alt rock, etc), but definitely fall under the electronic rock genre.
"Electronic rock" seems to me like such a vague term as to be useless. All of the bands I see classified as electronic rock could easily fall under a different genre. Radiohead's early albums are rock and their later ones are electronic. New Order is synthpop, which is a style of pop, and not even rock. Linkin Park is nu-metal.
For the record, ambient and electronic can be subgenres of almost anything. Ambient pop, ambient metal, electronic metal, electronicore (fusion of electronic and metalcore). I think the most common ambient rock is ambient post-rock.
I will concede that ambient music is broader than just electronica. I don't agree that electronic can be a subgenre of anything. Electronic is not a subgenre, it's a genre unto itself with a lot of subgenres of its own. You can have anything be a fusion genre with electronic, maybe.

Aside from that, "ambient post-rock" is so redundant it's stupid.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 4:24

How is "ambient post-rock" redundant? Ambient alone is not postrock, and rock can totally be ambient without becoming post-rock.

As for electronic being a subgenre, I agree, it's better to call "electronic + (genre)" a fusion genre.

Those are all more mainstream genres you prefer to classify those bands. I rarely see any actual electronic rock bands being called "electronic rock." It's not anymore vague than "alternative rock" either, and that's just as valid a genre. New Order is post-punk as well as synthpop. The songs I've heard from them are suite obviously rock with pop elements.

(To be fair, I don't know why I'm trying to defend a genre I don't even listen to, save a few bands)

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 5:01

I've now started arguing with Italian about this :lol: and he agrees New Order is not rock, but instead calls them New Wave. I agree they're New Wave, but I refuse to believe new wave is not rock. It is largely rock with pop elements, but that still makes it rock.

I think it's a very debatable thing as to whether New Wave is rock or not… I have found many who say yes and many no.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby vijayjohn » 2016-05-19, 5:47

So New Order is not rock, and instead, New Order is New Wave...yet New Wave is rock anyway? By that logic, wouldn't New Order be rock?

Never mind. I think I got what you're saying now.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-19, 5:53

Koko wrote:How is "ambient post-rock" redundant? Ambient alone is not postrock, and rock can totally be ambient without becoming post-rock.
Because post-rock is ambient. Or at least, all the post-rock I've heard is.
As for electronic being a subgenre, I agree, it's better to call "electronic + (genre)" a fusion genre.
There we go!
Those are all more mainstream genres you prefer to classify those bands. I rarely see any actual electronic rock bands being called "electronic rock." It's not anymore vague than "alternative rock" either, and that's just as valid a genre.
Electronic rock is an umbrella term which is pretty vague. It seems to cover everything from synthpop to prog rock. Alternative rock is pretty much grunge cleaned up for FM radio.
New Order is post-punk as well as synthpop. The songs I've heard from them are suite obviously rock with pop elements.
I've listened to them a lot and I don't hear post-punk. Joy Division were more like post-punk. So are Talking Heads and Blondie. New Order is definitely not a rock band. For one thing, they have barely any guitar.
I've now started arguing with Italian about this :lol: and he agrees New Order is not rock, but instead calls them New Wave. I agree they're New Wave, but I refuse to believe new wave is not rock. It is largely rock with pop elements, but that still makes it rock.
Have you listened to a lot of new wave? I think it's pretty clearly pop. New wave originally meant what we would now call post-punk, but came to basically mean early synthpop.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 5:58

To clarify, I have however changed from "New Wave = rock" to "much of New Wave = rock;" this group of which New Order belongs to. I love many new wave bands, many of which are clearly pop. But I refuse to believe New Order barely have any guitar. Most songs I've listened to use it quite a lot. Maybe I'm just confusing them with a different band though? I doubt it though, since I even listened to the same songs recently.

I really suggest you listen to more post-rock. It is not all ambient at all. Who have you listened to? Lights and motion? Anatomy of the Bear? April Rain?

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-19, 6:04

Koko wrote:To clarify, I have however changed from "New Wave = rock" to "much of New Wave = rock;" this group of which New Order belongs to. I love many new wave bands, many of which are clearly pop. But I refuse to believe New Order barely have any guitar. Most songs I've listened to use it quite a lot. Maybe I'm just confusing them with a different band though? I doubt it though, since I even listened to the same songs recently.
The album I've listened to the most is Power, Corruption & Lies and I don't recall it having very prominent guitar. The keyboard or even bass are more prominent on the album.

The terms post-punk, new wave and synthpop all overlap a lot and it's unclear what exactly the difference is between them. I think they all mean pretty much the same thing.
I really suggest you listen to more post-rock. It is not all ambient at all. Who have you listened to? Lights and motion? Anatomy of the Bear? April Rain?
I have no idea what any of that shit is. I don't really like post-rock. Explosions in the Sky or Sígur Rós seem ambient to me.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 6:16

If those are the only post-rock bands you've heard, no wonder you think all postrock is ambient :lol: Sigur Ros is the most ambient postrock band I've ever heard! My favorite band is Russian Circles, who are post-rock with math elements in some songs, especially the album "Enter." You could give them a try if you're interested. And there's Isis (who are also considered post-metal).

Hmm, I may be confusing new wave with another thing then? Or I'm just absolutely stupid :para: But I know there are many new wave bands who are obviously rock (U2 for one), and my first impression of New Order was rock. I completely forget the album I have heard. The first half was totally rock IIRC. Maybe I just need to listen to them more…

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-19, 6:21

No thanks. I have no interest in math rock or metal.
Koko wrote:Hmm, I may be confusing new wave with another thing then? Or I'm just absolutely stupid :para: But I know there are many new wave bands who are obviously rock (U2 for one), and my first impression of New Order was rock. I completely forget the album I have heard. The first half was totally rock IIRC. Maybe I just need to listen to them more…
Listen to the one I just named and you'll see they aren't rock. Also, U2 aren't new wave.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 6:32

Seas of Ledges are non-ambient/metal/math postrock ;) But you have already said you're not into postrock anyways, so. But if you [ever] want to give some non-ambient postrock a go, you could try em out.

Wikipedia calls both New Order and U2 post-punk :hmm: Maybe New Order started out as post-punk, and moved into new wave and later as synthpop. I think the album I've listened to is from 87 or something [I found it: Substance 1987]. First couple songs are so rock it's hard not to say the band is after listening to them, and probly why I called them so.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-19, 6:40

Koko wrote:Wikipedia calls both New Order and U2 post-punk :hmm: Maybe New Order started out as post-punk, and moved into new wave and later as synthpop.
Post-punk is basically meaningless. All it means is the music that came after punk, which ended up as new wave. If you compare Joy Division to Talking Heads you'll see they sound totally different, but both are called post-punk. That shows what a worthless term it is.
I think the album I've listened to is from 87 or something [I found it: Substance 1987]. First couple songs are so rock it's hard not to say the band is after listening to them, and probly why I called them so.
I listened to Power, Corruption & Lies again and Substance and there are a few songs that could be called rock. But if you listen to those whole albums you'll see the majority of it is definitely synthpop. "Blue Monday" is not a rock song.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 6:46

There we go! :lol: I'll listen to those albums entirely.

I think I'm just so in love with rock that I only ended up listening/paying attention to their (few, so it seems) rock songs :silly: Guess I'll have to apologize to Italian :lol: But you can see how my first impression would be rock, right?

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby mōdgethanc » 2016-05-19, 7:01

Koko wrote:There we go! :lol: I'll listen to those albums entirely.

I think I'm just so in love with rock that I only ended up listening/paying attention to their (few, so it seems) rock songs :silly: Guess I'll have to apologize to Italian :lol: But you can see how my first impression would be rock, right?
Yeah. They were originally more of a rock band (Joy Division), so it's not surprising.

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Re: Rock of all kinds

Postby Koko » 2016-05-19, 7:25

Ugh, I feel disgusted with myself now! I didn't even need to listen to all of Substance to realize how pop they are :oops: If only I had listened to more of New Order in the first place :doh:

Excuse me,
While I kill myself *guitar*
:laser:


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