Do you love your country ?

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Naava
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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby Naava » 2018-08-26, 7:57

md0 wrote:Does any of us know where our ancestors were 400 years ago? :hmm:
Personally, I would feel that 3 generations in a place is as good as having been there forever.

I do. My family has lived in Southern Ostrobothnia since the 1600s.

Dad's interested in family history and he has all the names and everything, including the cause of death (which was cool because most of them had died of 'fever').

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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby md0 » 2018-08-26, 8:38

Meanwhile I don't even know the names of my great-grandparents nor I ever bothered to ask and find out :hmm:
Is this kind of family history a niche hobby or is my family the weird one out?
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Naava
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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby Naava » 2018-08-26, 9:02

I think family history is somewhat popular here. Not everyone is interested, but it's not rare either. It's quite easy, too, because the priests and pastors and such have been very dutiful in writing down the names of christened babies and dead members of the church. As long as there hasn't been fires or bombings, you should be able to find names going back for several generations without too much difficulty.

I know the names of my great-grandparents because I've visited their graves (my grandparents were buried in the same grave) and because I've heard some stories of them. I think that's quite common especially in countryside, because nobody moved further than the next village before the 19th-20th centuries. Even my father's childhood home is about 200 years old and the same family used to live there ever since it was built... Sadly, it's not safe anymore so no one has lived there since my grandmother left the place almost twenty years ago.

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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby Lur » 2018-08-26, 11:51

I only know up to my grandparents and I'm basically uninterested in more. Also at that point I'm down to three fascists out of four people so who the hell cares. (This is why I'm weirded out when people talk about "ancestors" and "heritage", like I'd prefer choosing things myself thank you very much)

Aurinĭa wrote:
KatyP wrote:We're still growing and maturing. (...) We're young compared to a lot of other countries and still figuring things out.

But the US is not a young country, is it? The US declared itself independent in 1776, which is almost 250 years ago. The Civil War ended in 1865, and in the more than 150 years since then there have been no major wars in the continental US that had a severe impact on the state structure and/or necessitated the rebuilding of a lot of the infrastructure of the country.

The US is not young in the absolute sense, nor in the relative sense compared to many other countries.

I always say that Spain is younger than the US wether you count at the creation of the Kingdom of Spain or the 1978 Constitution.

And that's in the assimilationist perspective. In the non-assimilationist perspective... well... while not the same for all peoples at all, it's still a lot more.
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Aurinĭa
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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby Aurinĭa » 2018-08-26, 14:49

md0 wrote:Personally, I would feel that 3 generations in a place is as good as having been there forever.

I'd say four generations, meaning your great-grandparents immigrated to the country you live in (or grandparents as very young children, before they were able to form proper long-term memories of their country of origin), because then you don't have ancestors who can tell you about that place.

md0 wrote:Meanwhile I don't even know the names of my great-grandparents nor I ever bothered to ask and find out :hmm:
Is this kind of family history a niche hobby or is my family the weird one out?

I know the names of the two great-grandparents I can remember (even though for one of them those memories are mainly of her in a hospital bed), and of the grandparent who died before I was born. I know one of my great-great-(great?)-grandparents was a foundling, and her name as well. (I also don't know or care about any second cousins and the like).

Lur wrote:I always say that Spain is younger than the US wether you count at the creation of the Kingdom of Spain or the 1978 Constitution.

And that's in the assimilationist perspective. In the non-assimilationist perspective... well... while not the same for all peoples at all, it's still a lot more.

Exactly. I was also thinking of all those ex-colonies, ex-Soviet states, etc. that became independent during the twentieth century.

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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby JackFrost » 2018-08-26, 15:42

md0 wrote:Does any of us know where our ancestors were 400 years ago? :hmm:
Personally, I would feel that 3 generations in a place is as good as having been there forever.

I certainly do. 400 years ago, that would be around 1620. So, my English and French ancestors were about to settle in Massachusetts and New France. The German ones were still in central western Germany for another century. The Slovak, Scots, Welsh, and Irish hung around at home for between two to three more centuries.

My tree goes back to the ancient times, actually. It's pretty easy to go back that far when you're connected to members of the nobility who were descended from a medieval English king. It all depends how great a given country is at keeping records, especially churches.
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Re: Do you love your country ?

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-08-26, 16:04

The Portuguese burned our church records about 500 years ago (which also included genealogical information that seems impossible to find otherwise), but even then, I'm fairly certain that my dad's family at the time was here and my mom's family was within 50 km of that.

And even if I was completely wrong about that, to what extent is any single individual's genealogy relevant to the makeup of the population overall? What are the odds of mass resettlement within the last 400 years?

Also, three or four generations is certainly not forever in an American context. There is a clear and important difference between people who have been here for a few hundred years and people who have been here for tens of thousands of years.


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