Comparison of countries

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Jurgen Wullenwever
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Comparison of countries

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-11, 22:03

This below from the ESC 2014-thread made me curious. Which are these differences? A country like what, specifically? (I live in Sweden but not in Serbia, so my knowledge is limited here.)
Ludwig Whitby wrote:Like when I tell people about what's it's like in Scandinavia everyone is amazed. Then I go on and tell them that we can have a country just like that too if only we were to make some changes. And that's when most people disagree. We're different. We've got a different mentality and a different culture. This is Serbia, man, get real. Which is true, but that shouldn't stop us from learning from them. If it works there, we can surely make it work here, somehow. Or at least try to make it work. But it won't work here. It's Serbia, nothing works here and nobody cares. There's no future here, just go back to Scandinavia and enjoy yourself. Ok.


Now we even have a political party that is lead by guys who lived in Western Europe, Canada and USA and who are trying to change the system and make the country more modern and Western. Most people who don't believe in them say: ''You can do that in Europe, but not here. It's unrealistic."

http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42777&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60#p947855
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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TeneReef
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby TeneReef » 2014-05-11, 23:41

It's North vs South
and West vs East.

All southern European countries are poor(er) compared to the North,
except for France which is only 30 % SouthEuropean. :para:
Image

Slovenia was doing much better prior to joining the EU.
It gave EU more money than it received back from the EU.

Croatia has nothing to lose, and nothing to gain,
all banks are owned by foreigners (Austrians and Italians),
there is no industry anymore, all Croatian companies
declared bankruptcy after privatization.
Currently, the only income comes from tourism,
but no country in the world can live only on tourism,
not even Maldives and Seychelles. Even most
food is imported since the cost of local production is too high (to be competitive).
Croatian stores are closing down, while
foreigners are constantly opening Lidl, Billa, Kaufland (and all other) stores.
We got Ikea too. :P

Back in 1990 people were hoping for a Scandinavian model,
but we got the Latin American model instead,
there is no middle class anymore,
90 % of profit is in the hands of 10 families
who had sold Croatia to foreigners.

I will be emigrating pretty soon. :whistle:


PS
Local mentality has a lot to do with it too,
Hrvatski jal (''Croatian envy/malice '') is the root cause of all problems.
Instead of being united, Croatian people have always acted one
against another (''As long as I'm fine, I don't care''; former president Tudjman
and his party orchestrated a civil war in the 1990ies, to serve as a curtain
for ''criminal privatization'' he and his 10 chosen families did).
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mōdgethanc
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-05-12, 2:42

If I wanted yet another Swedenjerk, I'd go on r/politics.

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Jurgen Wullenwever
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-12, 16:46

mōdgethanc wrote:If I wanted yet another Swedenjerk, I'd go on r/politics.

I considered that, but it appeared to me as if the emphasis was on softer fields such as culture and mentality, and I am curious about what general stuff there is that works here but not there.

The thread could be moved if necessary. I just want to read what LW has said to people that seems so unrealistic.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

Ludwig Whitby
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-05-12, 17:06

I meant having a system that works. Here the system is made to benefit only those in power and the general population is mostly getting screwed over by the system. High taxes and you get nothing in return. Free healthcare, but if you want to get a proper treatment, you need to pay. If you want to start a small business with a few employees, the high taxes make it impossible, so don't bother doing it by the book. Actually doing things by the book is a sure way of getting screwed over. Avoiding it, by for example, working in the grey market makes your chances of actually making money and succeeding much bigger.

In most of Europe the system is made to benefit the general population. The more north you go, the more incentives you get to go fully legit. Sure, you have to pay high taxes, but you get your money back in quality services.

Most people think that there is a difference in mentality or culture; disobeying the law is a part of our culture which makes our culture inherently incompatable with a functioning system, and thus inferior to the law-abiding cultures of the north. This means that it's not our fault and that we can't do anything about it. Absolves us from any responsibility.

While in fact it is only a difference of systems. If the system 'forces' you to break the law, you'll break the law. Simple as that. But this would mean that we are responsible and that we can and must do something, change something. Not a pleasant thought.

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Jurgen Wullenwever
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-12, 17:38

Ludwig Whitby wrote:I meant having a system that works. Here the system is made to benefit only those in power and the general population is mostly getting screwed over by the system. High taxes and you get nothing in return. Free healthcare, but if you want to get a proper treatment, you need to pay.
The same things are said in Sweden, but the difference is of course one of scale and that it is expected that everyone abides by the rules and regulations, so corruption is not ubiquitous, although small-scale tax evasion is.
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Iván » 2014-05-30, 8:23

Ludwig Whitby wrote:I meant having a system that works. Here the system is made to benefit only those in power and the general population is mostly getting screwed over by the system. High taxes and you get nothing in return. Free healthcare, but if you want to get a proper treatment, you need to pay. If you want to start a small business with a few employees, the high taxes make it impossible, so don't bother doing it by the book. Actually doing things by the book is a sure way of getting screwed over. Avoiding it, by for example, working in the grey market makes your chances of actually making money and succeeding much bigger.

In most of Europe the system is made to benefit the general population. The more north you go, the more incentives you get to go fully legit. Sure, you have to pay high taxes, but you get your money back in quality services.

Most people think that there is a difference in mentality or culture; disobeying the law is a part of our culture which makes our culture inherently incompatable with a functioning system, and thus inferior to the law-abiding cultures of the north. This means that it's not our fault and that we can't do anything about it. Absolves us from any responsibility.

While in fact it is only a difference of systems. If the system 'forces' you to break the law, you'll break the law. Simple as that. But this would mean that we are responsible and that we can and must do something, change something. Not a pleasant thought.

This sounds too familiar to me.

Yesterday I skyped with a Swedish friend of mine, whose parents are from Peru, and she told me that, for instance, Swedes don't have to pay for going to the dentist until the age of 19-20. I really find it hard to believe, since in Spain you mostly have to pay for everything you need from the dentist. And yeah, they obviously have higher taxes in Sweden, but still...

And, as far as I know, you already speak Norwegian fluently, don't you? Consequently, I guess it wouldn't be so difficult to get a job in Scandinavia/Sweden. Well, it also depends on your education and stuff like that, though.
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Ludwig Whitby
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-05-30, 16:57

I just started working for a Swedish company here and I have a year left on my bachelor studies. I'll try getting into some master program in Scandinavia and get a part-time job there (which I guess shouldn't be that problematic given that by that time I will hopefully have had work-experience in a Scandinavian company).

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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Jurgen Wullenwever » 2014-05-30, 17:36

Iván wrote:she told me that, for instance, Swedes don't have to pay for going to the dentist until the age of 19-20. I really find it hard to believe, since in Spain you mostly have to pay for everything you need from the dentist.

After 20, you are on your own with the dentist, and the teeth are not considered part of the body in the Swedish system, so they are separate economically from other medical stuff. I had an acute problem today, which was fixed in a few seconds, but it cost me 580 crowns (60 Euro). :shock:
Chekhov wrote:I don't know about naive worldviews, but Jurgen Wullenwhatever pisses me off to no end because of his extreme pessimism and cynicism. You'd think the world was going to end imminently when talking to that guy.

Jag är rebell: jag sockrar teet, saltar maten, cyklar utan hjälm, och tänder glödlampor.
(Ovanstående var förut, nu försöker jag minska sockret och saltet.)

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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Sol Invictus » 2014-05-30, 19:25

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
Iván wrote:she told me that, for instance, Swedes don't have to pay for going to the dentist until the age of 19-20. I really find it hard to believe, since in Spain you mostly have to pay for everything you need from the dentist.

After 20, you are on your own with the dentist, and the teeth are not considered part of the body in the Swedish system, so they are separate economically from other medical stuff. I had an acute problem today, which was fixed in a few seconds, but it cost me 580 crowns (60 Euro). :shock:

AFAIK, healthcare for kids is much cheeper here too, including free dentist so it isn't a highest living standard on Earth thing, and I used to read Swedish news in English when I worked for a news site, they were just as full eith complaints about medical stuff as our media

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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-07-18, 3:55

Canadians love to brag about our healthcare system and yet complain about it all the time, paradoxically enough. I'm not claiming this country doesn't have flaws, but all things being held equal, I would put it in the top ten for quality of life.

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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby DissidentRage » 2014-07-29, 13:58

Jurgen Wullenwever wrote:
Iván wrote:she told me that, for instance, Swedes don't have to pay for going to the dentist until the age of 19-20. I really find it hard to believe, since in Spain you mostly have to pay for everything you need from the dentist.

After 20, you are on your own with the dentist, and the teeth are not considered part of the body in the Swedish system, so they are separate economically from other medical stuff. I had an acute problem today, which was fixed in a few seconds, but it cost me 580 crowns (60 Euro). :shock:


This is something that needs to change everywhere. I've been in a persistent state of pain since December (but there are periods where it doesn't hurt as badly) and the procedure to repair it runs about $3,000. This isn't a cosmetic issue. It's a danger to my health both physically and mentally. Labeling it as cosmetic is just a way to sidestep the issue and continue to gouge patients.
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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby Koko » 2014-09-18, 1:05

mōdgethanc wrote:Canadians love to brag about our healthcare system and yet complain about it all the time, paradoxically enough. I'm not claiming this country doesn't have flaws, but all things being held equal, I would put it in the top ten for quality of life.

One major flaw at the moment is Stephen Harper and BC's Premier What's-her-face. Oops, those are two flaws.

I think Norway is #1 when it comes to schooling: anyone from a different can go to university there for free, at least that's what I heard… Any Norwegians please confirm this.

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Re: Comparison of countries

Postby TeneReef » 2014-09-18, 15:43

I guess you're talking about HDI index:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ment_Index

TOP10:
1 Norway 0.944 Increase 0.001
2 Australia 0.933 Increase 0.002
3 Switzerland 0.917 Increase 0.001
4 Netherlands 0.915 Steady
5 United States 0.914 Increase 0.002
6 Germany 0.911 Steady
7 New Zealand 0.910 Increase 0.002
8 Canada 0.902 Increase 0.001
9 Singapore 0.901 Increase 0.003
10 Denmark 0.900 Steady

I would love to live in Norway or Australia.
Norway would be easier for me to emigrate to, even though my half sister is a born and raised Australian, living in Canberra.


I think Norway is #1 when it comes to schooling: anyone from a different can go to university there for free, at least that's what I heard…


1. Norway does not rank well (compared to Finland or Canada) in PISA rankings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA_2012

2. In Norway, university courses may be free, but since it's a small country (population-wise), many students have to go abroad to pursue career they want, I know some Norwegians studying medicine here in Croatia (in English medium program).

Only in Cuba every person who wants to study medicine can do it.
In most countries, even though medical school may be ''free'',
there's a tough enrollment test, and only 10 % of candidates can get in.
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