School uniforms

[md0]

I finished watching this PBS documentary "Wide Angle: China Prep" which is about the Chinese high school system, and how it's oriented towards getting into an elite university. And I found it funny that the narrator presents everything as so exotic, while to me, save some details, it was as if he was describing the Cypriot system. But what I noticed that was really exotic was the lack of school uniforms. Everyone in this public (yet elite) highschool seemed to wear all sorts of clothes without any pattern, many of them wear bright yellow, green and red tshirts, trousers of variable length etc. I found that really weird.

Over hear, we have three sets of school uniforms in public schools.
A) The official uniform for all ages (grey full-length trousers/knee-length skirt, white shirt, tie for boys/a bowtie-like thing for girls, black formal shoes)
B) The informal uniform for primary and lower secondary (trousers/skirts as above, white tshirt with the emblem of the school -short or longsleeve, single-colour shoes -black, white, grey or dark blue)
C) The Upper Secondary uniform (blue full-length jeans, single-colour tshirt -white.black/grey/dark blue, same shoe rules as above).

That's B


The jeans for upper secondary was a major win for the student movement 6~7 years ago, before that only A and B existed. There are a dozen of rules regarding appearance (haircut, hair colour, hair length, facial hair, tattoos, earrings, finger-rings etc). But I'd like to know what's the uniforms situation in your country's schools. Let's keep it to public schools because private schools have all sorts of arrangement and they usually have to do with a very small portion of the population.

[Varislintu]

Neither public nor private schools have school uniforms in Finland. At least I've never seen a person in school uniform here.

There may be some kinds of dress code rules against rebellious things, but they vary from school to school, and are not usually anything very strict. I don't even know what kind of rules my schools may have potentially had. I think boys were told not to wear a woolly hat inside the class room, but I can't remember if that was consistently enforced or not.

[Патрислав Андреевич]

In Poland there are no uniforms or even formal rules in public schools, everyone wears what they want. However, of course, there is an unwritten code against — as Varislintu put it — rebellious things, which is generally observed by students. I really don’t remember a situation when someone dressed in an inappropriate way throughout my entire education (except for some celebrations or official days when students are forced to be dressed formally/officially, and they often do not. This is enforced then and they are sent home to dress again ).

The private schools may enforce whatever rules they want. I live near one Catholic private school and children there are forced to wear uniforms every day, which are similar to the A set in meidei’s post (without a tie or a bowtie-like thing).

[Levike]

Here it depends on the schools whether they want or not. ( Most of them don't )

Usually elementary schools have but almost no one wears them.
And when it comes to high-schools, some have and impose it, others don't.

This is the general Romanian uniform for elementary schools.

[Psi-Lord]

It depends a lot on all sorts of things in Brazil (if the school is private or public, if it’s primary or secondary school or even mixed, if it’s considered elite or not etc.). There’s no state or national uniform either – when schools do have one, it’s their own unique design.

I went to a public primary school, and then to a private secondary school. In both, uniforms existed, but were optional (except for certain school events, such as parades, when they were required), and you even had some customisation options (short or long sleeves, for instance), as long as you didn’t change (primary) colours or logo.

My primary school uniform (which one is me? ):

[Levike]

My primary school uniform (which one is me? ):

The forth from the right. Just guessing.

[JackFrost]

Never had to deal with such a thing. It's a private school thing to require that.

[md0]

And parents group say our public schools are inadequately militant
I thought school uniforms were a thing in most of Europe (not as a specific uniform like we have here, but a strict set of rules of some sort. Bright yellow in a school classroom was sure a shocker when I was watching the documentary).

Kind of expected they are not favoured in Americas though.

[Johanna]

No school uniforms in Sweden either, in fact I think they'd be illegal since that would mean that parents would have to pay for school-related stuff.

[Lur]

Neither public nor private schools have school uniforms in Finland. At least I've never seen a person in school uniform here.

There may be some kinds of dress code rules against rebellious things, but they vary from school to school, and are not usually anything very strict. I don't even know what kind of rules my schools may have potentially had.

This. I usually went to school in a t-shirt and jeans.

[md0]

No school uniforms in Sweden either, in fact I think they'd be illegal since that would mean that parents would have to pay for school-related stuff.

(Which reminds me that we have to pay for our own army things, even though we are conscripted. My brothers were conscripted this year and iirc, they have to spend 150EUR each on stuff just the week before being called to the camp)

But yeah, education is supposed to be free too, but there's a ton of hidden fees. The way high school works makes prep schools de facto necessary to succeed (by which I mean getting a passing grade) and there's lots of money in the prep school business. Doesn't help that those who teach in prep schools are those who teach in day schools. There's a very clear conflict of interest there.

Okay, sorry for that, I am derailing my own thread.

[johntm]

Pretty sure it's only a private school thing here, but we have dress codes that allow a broad range of stuff (and those aren't always followed).
I think school uniforms are stupid, why the fuck can't I wear gym shorts and a t shirt on some days if I want?

[Psi-Lord]

My primary school uniform (which one is me? ):

The forth from the right. Just guessing.

Close – the fifth from the right, actually.

I’ve just realised that, considering that picture was taken in 1986, very few of you had already been born back then.

The points about school uniforms around here, by the way, are usually two – you or your parents don’t have to worry about what to wear, since you just wear the same type of clothes everyday, and it creates a sense of uniformity in situations where it may be important to tell who is who (such as during events where you have students from different schools together).

[md0]

I think school uniforms are stupid, why the fuck can't I wear gym shorts and a t shirt on some days if I want?

If we had PE in that day, and the rest of our classes were with easy-going teachers, we'd tried to get away with the PE clothes the whole day. But at highschools we had jeans so it didn't matter.

Now, we had as learn the arguments in favour of retaining the uniform by heart, wanna hear?


* It's one of the ways students are equal - they have to wear the same clothes
* It obscures who's poor and who's rich [doubtful, since you can tell who only has one set and who has 7, and 100% cotton instead of synthetic]
* Schools should not become arenas for modeling
* What's important it's what's inside, not the way one looks [if it's not important, how come they had me shave my face every two weeks?]
* Having an uniform is one more way to enforce discipline
* It saves time in the morning, removing the stress of deciding what to wear
* Helps avoid arguments with parents and teachers on whether the specific day's attire is proper
* Uniformity does not mean everyone's the same, it's fashion that makes everyone the same
* Other countries which have abolished it now plan to bring it back
* Private schools still have uniforms all over the world.

[IpseDixit]

Over here, elementary school is the only one which has something close to a uniform, though not a real uniform. It's called grembiule - apron and is something that you wear over your clothes.



Other than that, we always wear normal clothes.

I probably would have liked a uniform and agree on many points of your list.

[Hoogstwaarschijnlijk]

No school uniforms in Sweden either, in fact I think they'd be illegal since that would mean that parents would have to pay for school-related stuff.

Not when the school would pay for it...?


Anyway, no uniforms in the Netherlands in one single school. It's considered to be really outdated and British, I think. Personally I think a class wearing uniforms is totally touching and cute.
What comes closest to a school uniform is that we had to wear a white T-shirt and a blue pants with the P.E.-classes. I hated that, I still don't understand why they chose white, it's not nice for girls who have to wear bra's, they're so easily visible then. Apart from that, I would have liked a uniform, at least when it's not a difficult one (a bow-tie sounds difficult) and warm enough. I really liked my scouting blouse

There aren't many rules on what children should or shouldn't wear, but this year we've had a discussion if girls on schools should be allowed to wear hotpants as described in this article: http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/5288/Ond ... sjes.dhtml

[Luís]

No uniforms in public schools in Portugal either. Some private schools might require them, though.

[Car]

Neither public nor private schools have school uniforms in Finland. At least I've never seen a person in school uniform here.

There may be some kinds of dress code rules against rebellious things, but they vary from school to school, and are not usually anything very strict. I don't even know what kind of rules my schools may have potentially had.

This. I usually went to school in a t-shirt and jeans.

It's the same in Germany and I worse t-shirts, jeans and, if necessary, jumpers all the time.

From time to time, you have discussions about plunging necklines at school where girls are made to wear really wide, hideous t-shirts on top of their clothes to make it unattractive for them to come to school with such necklines.

Wikipedia mentions that some public schools introduced something similar to it in recent years, but the students get to decide, too, and may choose from a collection of clothes.

[Johanna]

No school uniforms in Sweden either, in fact I think they'd be illegal since that would mean that parents would have to pay for school-related stuff.

Not when the school would pay for it...?

Schools wouldn't do that, it's an extra cost that they certainly don't want.

Besides, if public schools did pay for uniforms, that would be the first thing to go when the next budget cut came around, and these days there's one pretty much every year. And private schools operate under similar conditions since the same laws apply to them as to public schools (that is, education must be free) so the only real income they have is the same amount of tax money per student that public schools get.

Also, a lot of owners of private schools are only interested in making as much money off of them as possible, so any profits are transferred into their accounts in some tax haven rather than getting invested back into the school, so paying for school uniforms? Nope, that would mean less profits. And those who aren't like that think those money are better spent keeping up the quality of the school.

Now, we had as learn the arguments in favour of retaining the uniform by heart, wanna hear?

* It's one of the ways students are equal - they have to wear the same clothes

How would wearing the same clothes make you equal? If they mean look-wise, they will fit some people better than others, even if it's not even a real uniform but only keeping to the same primary colours.

* It obscures who's poor and who's rich [doubtful, since you can tell who only has one set and who has 7, and 100% cotton instead of synthetic]

And you have to have two sets of clothes really. Sure, you don't need as many "civilian" outfits during the semesters, but what about school holidays?

* Schools should not become arenas for modeling

Like if most people think of it that way. To me that sounds like it's very much directed at girls, and that they should know their place and dress modestly.

* What's important it's what's inside, not the way one looks [if it's not important, how come they had me shave my face every two weeks?]

Like if that matters, you still have things like face and figure. And like I said before, the uniform itself will always look better on some and worse on some, maybe even making someone become ridiculed for their looks.

* Having an uniform is one more way to enforce discipline

Yeah, sure, that has only worked since about... never. Kids and teenagers will be kids and teenagers no matter what they wear, and it's how you act towards them that matters when it comes to their behaviour. Besides, making them wear a school uniform will only make them more inventive when it comes to ways of using clothes to show rebellion through appearance.

* It saves time in the morning, removing the stress of deciding what to wear

OK, can't argue with that really, that holds true for quite a few. On the other hand, I never felt stressed about it, unless I didn't have enough clean clothes, and that can happen with a school uniform too.

* Helps avoid arguments with parents and teachers on whether the specific day's attire is proper

True, but that only really applies if there's some sort of policy on what students are allowed to wear. We didn't have that, and still no one came to school in their underwear or similar. Sure, there were miniskirts and bare midriffs every once in a while, but no one had any problems with that.

* Uniformity does not mean everyone's the same, it's fashion that makes everyone the same

How on earth would clothes of any kind make everyone the same? And how would fashion make everyone the same but not a uniform? Also, not everyone follows fashion, there are a bunch of other styles, and especially teenagers are prone to sport one of those.

* Other countries which have abolished it now plan to bring it back
* Private schools still have uniforms all over the world.

Those two are no real arguments. Besides, what countries exactly? And why would private schools abroad have anything to do with public schools in Cyprus? Especially since private schools often cost money to attend, so it's not like the poorest people go to one anyway.


That being said, I don't think school uniforms necessarily are a bad idea, if they're provided by the school, and you get a few different versions to choose from depending on body type. The colour thing doesn't have to be that bad, there are some that look pretty neutral on most people and that most are prone to wear anyway.

[md0]

And you have to have two sets of clothes really. Sure, you don't need as many "civilian" outfits during the semesters, but what about school holidays?

There's the opposite argument, that buying a school uniform doesn't make economic sense because you won't use that clothes outside of school, and that every couple years you need a new uniforms.

To me that sounds like it's very much directed at girls, and that they should know their place and dress modestly.

It is. There's no concept of male modelling in Cyprus, so the term refers to girls exclusively.
Not that there aren't strict rules for boys. Nothing feminine is allowed for them (rings, piercings, dyed hair, long hair, tight jeans (in upper secondary) or sleeveless t-shirts, from the top of my head), but in the same time no facial hair is allowed, and that's a military thing.

And like I said before, the uniform itself will always look better on some and worse on some, maybe even making someone become ridiculed for their looks.

You will find that this idea won't fly for the school administrations here. There isn't a notion of "unflattering clothes", but only "some kids are uglier than others, nothing can change that".
It does make sense the way you put it though, but I find it difficult to articulate that idea in Cyprus.

How on earth would clothes of any kind make everyone the same? And how would fashion make everyone the same but not a uniform? Also, not everyone follows fashion, there are a bunch of other styles, and especially teenagers are prone to sport one of those.

That argument was the most contradictory of all. It doesn't make sense, period.

Besides, what countries exactly?

Possibly none at all. When they use this argument, they don't have to back it up. If you ask them for a citation you will be laughed at.