Reasons not to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

It's not worth it to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

I agree
5
11%
I don't agree
41
89%
 
Total votes: 46

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0stsee
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Reasons not to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

Postby 0stsee » 2007-11-19, 20:15

I'm looking for reasons not to learn Indonesian or Malaysian.

1. In Malaysia most of the people have a good command in English anyway.
2. Most of the people in this world are only interested in European languages, and don't give a sh*t of Indonesian/Malaysian.
3. They are no real languages, but some kind of a pidgin/creole instead. The grammar is too easy, especially for the sophisticated Unilangers
4. The large discrepancy between the written and the spoken language. At least in Jakarta
5. Too many ways to say "I" and "you"

Do you have other reasons in mind?
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Postby ego » 2007-11-19, 21:52

This is nonsense.. Some people are interested in Malaysian, some aren't, just like with any language. Anyone has its own reasons to like or not a language. I love ancient and middle eastern languages mostly for instance, so I am not interested in Malay.. But maybe in the future I will be, you never know

Nero

Postby Nero » 2007-11-19, 22:18

Really, I'm the only vote who said it's not worth it?

Nothing against Malay/Indonesian, but in north America there are going to be few chances to use it.

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Postby sa wulfs » 2007-11-19, 22:22

Says the Latin and Old English student :lol: ;)

No, seriously, there are probably more practical languages to learn, but if Malaysian and Indonesian appeal to you, then go ahead.
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Indonesian

Postby 0stsee » 2007-11-19, 22:40

Nero wrote:Really, I'm the only vote who said it's not worth it?

Nothing against Malay/Indonesian, but in north America there are going to be few chances to use it.


You're right there. Although Indonesian/Malaysian is still spoken by over 222 Mio. people ín Southeast Asia, whereas Latin has no natural speakers of any sizeable number.
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Reasons no to learn Bahasa Melayu

Postby polar » 2007-11-20, 0:06

Those reasons are as good as for me not to learn Dutch or Finnish - those folks's English are amazingly proficient. Anyway it's totally erroneous to assume that folks here have good command of English. The nationalistic policies of each Indo/Malaysia states have over the years lessen the number of good English (or perhaps Dutch speakers in Indonesia).

To add to the list to negate learning of the language is the confusing system of affixes, suffixes and prefixes.

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Re: Reasons no to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

Postby 0stsee » 2007-11-20, 0:36

polar wrote:Anyway it's totally erroneous to assume that folks here have good command of English. The nationalistic policies of each Indo/Malaysia states have over the years lessen the number of good English (or perhaps Dutch speakers in Indonesia).

Dutch in Indonesia was never as widespread as English is in Malaysia.
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Re: Reasons not to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

Postby Psi-Lord » 2007-11-20, 1:00

Me trying to think of each of the reasons listed in post #1.

0stsee wrote:1. In Malaysia most of the people have a good command in English anyway.

The same can be said about many countries in Europe. I remember a Portuguese friend of mine who moved to the Netherlands and was often pissed off, because she was trying to learn Dutch, but people would just switch to English when they realised she wasn’t a native speaker. Alas, I’ve heard stories of even Japanese doing that to foreigners, even if the Japanese’s own English was much worse than the foreigners’ Japanese. :lol:

0stsee wrote:2. Most of the people in this world are only interested in European languages, and don't give a sh*t of Indonesian/Malaysian.

I guess that’s just a matter of attitude. Many English speakers don’t give a damn about other languages, not even Indo-European ones (although it’s rare here, I’ve seen that typical ‘I speak English, so why bother learning your language?’ touristic attitude). I myself, however, have had quite some fun with many Asian languages, even if just studying the basics of them.

0stsee wrote:3. They are no real languages, but some kind of a pidgin/creole instead. The grammar is too easy, especially for the sophisticated Unilangers

Even with the heavy code switching I’m told some speakers may use, I wouldn’t even think of going as far as saying they’re pidgins/creoles, especially the standard languages. On the other hand, some people may even regard English as a historical creole, hehe. And as for grammar, I think that e.g. Thai or Mandarin grammar is also extremely easy when compared to that of other languages; it can, however, be quite alien to a mind used to Indo-European languages, and it doesn’t make them easy, simple or unsophisticated.

0stsee wrote:4. The large discrepancy between the written and the spoken language. At least in Jakarta

Just have a look at the mess with Standard European Portuguese versus Standard Brazilian Portuguese, and with even Standard Brazilian Portuguese versus Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese. Enough said. :D

0stsee wrote:5. Too many ways to say "I" and "you"

Same for e.g. Thai, Vietnamese and Japanese. I personally think that’s quite sophisticated, no matter how much foreigners suffer with that. :D
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Re: Reasons not to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

Postby 0stsee » 2007-11-20, 1:06

Psi-Lord wrote:some people may even regard English as a historical creole, hehe.


LOL!
You're right!

English grammar has been simplified to such extent that it is almost like a creole! :lol:
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Karavinka

Postby Karavinka » 2007-11-20, 1:30

Really Nero, as a student of Latin and Old English you don't really have the rights to complain the lack of real practical use... ;) but let's just define the "use" first. I'm brushing up Latin myself, and to me it has a clear use, since I am interested in certain medieval texts which are not satisfactorily well translated. Learning Latin (particularly Medieval) would be of great personal use to me, far more than most major modern languages. (Otherwise I wouldn't be learning Latin if the marginal benefit of learning other languages were greater) Sure it doesn't have any native speakers (or even learned speakers, for that matter) to speak with but let us not define "use" in speaking only... so my vote goes to "no", same with Nero.

But Ostsee, you really should have asked whether Malay/Indonesian is worth learning for *us* individually. I don't think any sane Unilanger would claim a language is worthless in its absolute term.

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Re: Reasons not to learn Indonesian/Malaysian

Postby pastorant » 2007-11-20, 8:36

0stsee wrote:
English grammar has been simplified to such extent that it is almost like a creole! :lol:


English has a GRAMMAR????????? :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Soassae

Postby Soassae » 2007-11-20, 11:39

I have voted no.
Indeed, if you have to spend a certain amount of time in Malaysia and Indonesia, I do not see reasons not to learn some Bahasa. Well, you may be able to use other languages at work, but still ...

If you do not have to live in those countries, then the the question of whether or not to learn Indonesian or Malaysian is not much different from whether or not to learn any other languages that you do not really need in your everyday life...

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Postby Dminor » 2007-11-20, 14:28

I hope I didn't provide the inspiration for point 3... :lol: I think every (natural) language is interesting and worth learning, so I voted it's worth it. The reason why I'm not learning it is that there other languages that interest me more at the moment.
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Re: Reasons no to learn Bahasa Melayu

Postby 0stsee » 2007-11-20, 14:47

polar wrote:To add to the list to negate learning of the language is the confusing system of affixes, suffixes and prefixes.

Thanks for the addition!

Even the affixes are not that complicated.

I think another difficult aspect, at least in spoken Indonesian, are the "small words" like
koq
mah
sih

etc.
which are almost impossible to translate to English.
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Postby Bjarn » 2007-11-20, 16:04

No such thing as reasons not to learn a language..but last night I was thinking, if I have no use for and no ancestral ties to a language why would I learn it? OR, is language free for anyone?
I think its free for anyone and there is no reason why someone SHOULDN'T learn a language...even if its hard or you are poor at grasping grammar.
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Bahasa

Postby 0stsee » 2007-11-21, 0:37

Soassae wrote:I do not see reasons not to learn some Bahasa.

Btw, bahasa means simply language.

You say either Indonesian or Malaysian or Bahasa Indonesia or Bahasa Malaysia to denote the language.

See my last post on this page. :)
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Karavinka

Postby Karavinka » 2007-11-21, 18:11

Bjarn wrote:No such thing as reasons not to learn a language..but last night I was thinking, if I have no use for and no ancestral ties to a language why would I learn it? OR, is language free for anyone?
I think its free for anyone and there is no reason why someone SHOULDN'T learn a language...even if its hard or you are poor at grasping grammar.


I don't think languages are entirely free for anyone. Most people learn a language for a good reason, and if you just learn something out of curiosity then you get weird, if not suspicious, looks from the speakers. This is less true of a few "major" or "international" languages such as English or French, but for the rest, you need to provide a good reason. I guess it may differ across cultures, though. Heritage, marriage, study, jobs, religion, they're all good reasons and somehow curiosity or language-love isn't.

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Postby pastorant » 2007-11-21, 20:38

noir wrote: you need to provide a good reason. I guess it may differ across cultures, though. Heritage, marriage, study, jobs, religion, they're all good reasons and somehow curiosity or language-love isn't.

So true. Being the only non-black person in my Yoruba class was interesting. :) I still get shocked looks when I tell people I am trying to improve my Hausa. ("My WHO-a?") :roll:
A friend of mine teaches High School Italian and people think it's odd. :) "Who speaks Italian?"
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Postby Bjarn » 2007-11-21, 22:39

I noticed this...I have had several swedes ask me what kind of person in Canada goes learning a language like Swedish. I didn't particularly specifically CHOOSE Swedish though, I just started picking it up listening to Swedish music and from people who did speak it and decided to stick with it as I never stuck with anything before.
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Postby darkina » 2007-11-25, 22:44

This thread made me feel like learning them instead :lol:
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