Albanian

Any language which does not have a specific forum can have a thread made for it here.
User avatar
CoBB
Posts: 5265
Joined: 2004-08-26, 8:34
Real Name: PG
Gender: male
Location: An island...
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)
Contact:

Postby CoBB » 2005-11-29, 7:07

When a j follows a t, is it pronounced like a long q, or are the two sounds clearly articulated?
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

Klee
Posts: 68
Joined: 2005-08-23, 7:31
Real Name: Kayleigh
Gender: female
Location: Kent
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby Klee » 2005-11-29, 9:01

Nechayev wrote:About Tiranë - I've also seen it spelled as "Tirana". Is it still pronounced "Tiran" in that case?


I believe that Tiranë (pronounced Ti-raan)is indefinite - Tirana (pronounced Ti-ran-a - as the guide above for pronounciation of each letter) is definite. And this is used in the following way for different prepositions, for example,

I live in Tirana - unë jetoj në Tiranë.
I am from Tirana - unë jam nga Tirana.

(please wait for confirmation from Red Devil - I'm only learning too - possibly am wrong!!!!)

Red Devil - ooh never knew there was a Tiran - that was just to illustrate! - Sorry if i confused anyone! :?
Last edited by Klee on 2005-11-29, 9:14, edited 2 times in total.

Klee
Posts: 68
Joined: 2005-08-23, 7:31
Real Name: Kayleigh
Gender: female
Location: Kent
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby Klee » 2005-11-29, 9:05

red devil wrote:
Y – like u in use


Correction here, Y is always pronounced as the ü in über (german).


HAHA - that will explain all my issues with Ku and Ky!

Please tell me - any ideas for what to do if i can't roll my "rr"'s - I got told off for walking down a spoon the other day :? (luge - spoon/rruge - road)!

Thanks!

User avatar
red devil
Posts: 89
Joined: 2005-11-21, 12:22
Real Name: Red Devil
Gender: male
Location: The town west of Easttown
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby red devil » 2005-11-29, 9:57

red devil, what do you know about Arbëreshë , spoken in Italy?


Very little I am affraid. Some linguists claim that it represents the language spoken back in the 15th century in the region, and use it to point out how much Albanian has changed since.

I've noticed something else that was posted before.

X is very similar to Z but still diferently pronounced. If you say in english 'zone' that is the Z sound in albanian too (tongue does not quite touch your teeth). To pronounce the X you would have to touch your front teeth with your tongue, and the sound produced is different.

If you said 'Zekërr' you may not be understood, or get a reply back repeating what they think you may have wanted to say.

But if you said 'Xekërr' (wasp), they would get it the first time.

When a j follows a t, is it pronounced like a long q, or are the two sounds clearly articulated?


Sounds in Albanian are always clearly atriculated. when j follows t (tj) as in tungjatjeta. You pronounce it as toon-jah-tyeh-ta.

Unles they are : sh, zh, dh, th, in which case the albanian eye recognises them that they are 'one letter' (I think these are called digraphs) and are pronounced accordingly. There are a very few exceptions, such as Mithat(a male name) pronounced Mit-hat as opposed to Mi-that. But I wouldn't worry about this too much as even Albanians make the same mistake.

So basically, when you see ë at the end of a word after a consonant, the vowel before that consonant gets lengthened?


Correct, in any other case ë must be pronounced. 'është' [(he/she/it) is], you pronounce the first ë but not the last, but you make the first one longer.

Please tell me - any ideas for what to do if i can't roll my "rr"'s - I got told off for walking down a spoon the other day (luge - spoon/rruge - road)!


Ah, this is one of the sounds that would take some practice to master, especially for an english speaker. You can get away with using the soft 'r' version for the time being, try that, and then with time you will get it right. What makes it difficult is the fact that the word begins with 'Rr', if it was in the middle somewhere it is a lot easier to pronounce, like 'carramba' in spanish.

User avatar
CoBB
Posts: 5265
Joined: 2004-08-26, 8:34
Real Name: PG
Gender: male
Location: An island...
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)
Contact:

Postby CoBB » 2005-11-29, 10:19

red devil wrote:X is very similar to Z but still diferently pronounced.

Isn't it just the voiced pair of c, pronounced 'dz'?
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!



A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

User avatar
red devil
Posts: 89
Joined: 2005-11-21, 12:22
Real Name: Red Devil
Gender: male
Location: The town west of Easttown
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby red devil » 2005-11-29, 15:32

Isn't it just the voiced pair of c, pronounced 'dz'?


Absolutely Correct. I couldn't have explained it any better

User avatar
Jonne
Posts: 1379
Joined: 2005-08-25, 15:15
Gender: male
Location: Oulu
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Postby Jonne » 2005-11-29, 15:33

the name mithat comes from arabic midhat/mid7at/مدحت i guess :P

Asturies
Posts: 31
Joined: 2005-04-15, 14:58
Gender: female
Location: Some place in Spain :D

Albanian course in Spanish

Postby Asturies » 2005-11-29, 17:20

Albanés: shqip /Sk_jip/ (shkip) Oír
hola: tungjatjeta /tun g_jat jE ta/ (tun-ya-TYE-ta) Oír
adiós: mirupafshim /mi ru paf Sim/ (mi-ru-paf-SHIM) Oír
por favor: ju lutem /ju lu tEm/ (iU LU-tem) Oír
gracias: faleminderit /fa 5E min dE rit/ (fa-le-min-de-RIT) Oír
esa/ese: atë /a t@/ (a-TA) Oír
¿cuánto? sa është? /sa @S t@/ (SA ash-ta) Oír
Inglés: anglisht /an gliSt/ (an-GLISHT) Oír
sí: po /po/ (PO) Oír
no: jo /jo/ (HIO) Oír
perdón: më fal /m@ fal/ (ma FAL) Oír
No entiendo: nuk kuptoj /nuk kup toj/ (nuk KUP-toi) Oír
¿Dónde está el baño?: ku është banjoja? /ku @S t@ ba Jo ja/ (ku as-TA BA-ño-hia) Oír
Brindis: gëzuar /g@ zu ar/ (ga-su-ar) Oír
¿Habla inglés?: flisni Anglisht? /flis ni an gliSt/ (flis-ni an-GLISHT) Oír

That's all, bye

User avatar
Nechayev
Posts: 116
Joined: 2005-11-15, 0:23
Real Name: Nechayev
Gender: male
Location: New York
Country: US United States (United States)

Postby Nechayev » 2005-11-30, 3:53

I don't speak Spanish, but I could figure most of it out from prior knowledge.

Now, I have a question. Are there other ways of saying "Hello" and "Good-bye", namely, shorter versions?

In Russian, for example, you can say "Привет", "Здравствуй", or "Здравствуйте" for "hello", with increasing degrees of formality. Or, compare English "Hi", "Howdy", "Hey", etc.

Asturies
Posts: 31
Joined: 2005-04-15, 14:58
Gender: female
Location: Some place in Spain :D

Songs in albanian

Postby Asturies » 2005-11-30, 15:16

I have some albanian songs: One is the Eurovision song for Albania 2005. The singer is Ledina Çelo, very popular in Albania and the Song is Nesër Shkoj (Tomorrow I go) LYRICS:

Mos u trishto,
Ti e kishe enderruar nje
Vello te bardhe,
Nena ime me beko
Dhe mos qaj,
Neser do te shkoj,
E fundit nate...

A e mban mend,
Sa e kishe imagjinuar
Fustanin e bardhe,
Edhe une kam fatin
Si c'do vajze,
E di do me mungojne,
Te embelat fjale...

Ndoshta do qaj,
Se malli
Ty do te marre,
Do te marre!

Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
Le te bie nje daulle,
Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
E gjithe bota le te tundet,
Kenga te filloje,
Oh po dasma mos mbaroje,
Ti-ti-ta.

Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
Le te bie nje daulle,
Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
E gjithe bota le te tundet,
Kenga te filloje,
Oh po dasma mos mbaroje,
Ti-ti-ta-ti.

Neser do shkoj,
Do te dal une nga kjo porte
Me yllin e bardhe,
Me percill ti nena ime
Dhe ma fal,
Lotin e arte,
Te embelat fjale...

Ndoshta do qaj,
Se malli
Ty do te marre,
Do te marre!

Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
Le te bie nje daulle,
Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
E gjithe bota le te tundet,
Kenga te filloje,
Oh po dasma mos mbaroje,
Ti-ti-ta.

Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
Le te bie nje daulle,
Eh ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
E gjithe bota le te tundet,
Kenga te filloje,
Oh po dasma mos mbaroje,
Ri-ti-ta-ti.

Hou!

Ooooooooooooooh,
Ri-ti-da, eh ri-ti-da,
Kenga do te filloje,
Oh po dasma mos mbaroje,
Ti-ti-ta-ti!

(english translation)

Please don’t be sad
It’s like you’ve always dreamed
I wear the white veil
Oh, mother bless me pleaaaaase don’t you cry

Tomorrow I go
The last night falling
Oh, do you recall
How I would imagine
a white wedding dress
and now finally my time
time is here

I know that I will miss
Your sweet words singing
Maybe I’ll cry
Still I hope you will sing
Sing for me

Di di da di di da
Lift the drum beat, raise your voice
Di di da di di da

May the whole world shake as one
Let the song begin
Celebrate the dance within
Tomorrow I go

I will walk out this door
With the first star of night
It’s time to say goodbye
Give me now
Your golden tear
Your sweet words singing
Maybe I’ll cry
Still I hope you will sing - Sing for me

Asturies
Posts: 31
Joined: 2005-04-15, 14:58
Gender: female
Location: Some place in Spain :D

Postby Asturies » 2005-11-30, 15:34

Nechayev wrote:I don't speak Spanish, but I could figure most of it out from prior knowledge.

Now, I have a question. Are there other ways of saying "Hello" and "Good-bye", namely, shorter versions?

In Russian, for example, you can say "Привет", "Здравствуй", or "Здравствуйте" for "hello", with increasing degrees of formality. Or, compare English "Hi", "Howdy", "Hey", etc.


Just there are 3 words for say hello in Albanian (I think there are not more...) :oops:
Tungjatjeta
Tung: Young people don't say Tungjatjeta, say Tung only
Mirëdita: They say too Hello for Good Morning

User avatar
Nechayev
Posts: 116
Joined: 2005-11-15, 0:23
Real Name: Nechayev
Gender: male
Location: New York
Country: US United States (United States)

Postby Nechayev » 2005-11-30, 21:51

Thanks. How young is "young"? Since I'm 16, what would I say?

User avatar
red devil
Posts: 89
Joined: 2005-11-21, 12:22
Real Name: Red Devil
Gender: male
Location: The town west of Easttown
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Lesson 1 - The Present Tense

Postby red devil » 2005-12-01, 0:29

We have briefly looked into the present tense in the Introduction last week. In this lesson I will try and explain a bit more on how the present tense is formed.

The answers to question 3, last week were correct. ‘Ne shkojmë për ta shikuar’ does indeed mean we are going to see it. You must note in this case that ‘to see it’ implies ‘in order to see it’. (i.e. We are going in order to see it)

However if you wanted to say ‘We want to see it’, you wouldn’t use the infinitive, because it doesn’t imply ‘in order to’. You couldn’t really say ‘I want in order to see it’.

‘To want’ in Albanian is ‘Për të dashur’ or ‘Për të desht’(Ghegs use it more but it is standard also), and as in the majority of languages, a commonly used verb like this is irregular: In albanian it is even more so, you will see why below:

Për të dashur (curly braces indicate an alternative version, they are all correct)

I want – (unë) dua
You want – (ti) do {don, duash}
You want [formal] – (ju) doni {duani}
He/She wants – (ai/ajo) don

We want – (ne) dojmë {duam}
You (pl) want – (ju) doni {duani}
They want – (ata/ato) dojnë {duan}

The verb for ‘to love’ is ‘për të dashuruar’. (curly braces indicate an alternative version, they are all correct, however the last alternative version in this case is used a lot less)

I love – (unë) dua {dashuroj}
You love – (ti) do {don, duash , dashuron}
You love [formal] – (ju) doni {duani , dashuroni}
He/She loves – (ai/ajo) don {dashuron}

We love – (ne) dojmë {duam, dashurojmë}
You (pl) love – (ju) doni {duani , dashuroni}
They love – (ata/ato) dojnë {duan , dashurojnë}

Now as you can see (as it is also the case in Spanish), there is no difference between ‘to love’ and ‘to want’ in Albanian when you come out of the infinitive. They both mean the same. (You will find, as I have found that Spanish and Albanian have strikingly similar syntaxes)

I love you – të dua
You love me - (ti) më do
He loves me – (ai) më do
He/She loves you – (ai/ajo) të do

When you want someone to do something, in English you would say ‘I want you to do it’. On the other hand, Albanians take things quite literally, so you couldn’t say ‘të dua ta bësh’ because that would simply mean ‘I love you to do it’. What you have to do is think about what the sentence in English implies and then translate it accordingly.

‘I want you to do it’ really implies, ‘I want that you do it’.

I want you to do (I want that you do) – dua që të bësh.
I want him to do – dua që të bën (verb is për të bërë)


HOMEWORK: Question 1, How would you say ‘I want you to do it’? (TIP Look at the previous lesson)

Ok, the verb ‘to want’ as you can see yourself can have many versions, and I believe it is this that contributes to that Albanian “archaic-ness”. Well my suggestion to you is to use the non-alternative ones above, not because I prefer it, but because I hear it the most.


So how would one say ‘We want to see it’? We know that ‘to see’ is ‘për ta shikuar’, but we can’t use the infinitive here because it doesn’t imply ‘in order to’.

HOMEWORK: Question 2 - So how would you say ‘We want to see it’ (TIP In this case it really implies. ‘We want that we see it’)


HOMEWORK: Question 3 – Below is a list of UAR verbs, and I want you to try and form as many simple sentences as you can from what you have learned in the first two lessons. Next week I will introduce you to other types of verbs and how they are formed in the present tense. This should then give you more material to form sentences in the future.

Here’s some extra verbs for you to play with for now:

Për të:
Kremtuar ( to celebrate )
Punuar ( to work )
filluar ( to start )
leshuar (to leave/ to drop)

Some nouns:

Punë (work)
Televizion (TV)
Film (Film)
Shkollë (school)

User avatar
red devil
Posts: 89
Joined: 2005-11-21, 12:22
Real Name: Red Devil
Gender: male
Location: The town west of Easttown
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Lesson 1 - Your answers to the questions

Postby red devil » 2005-12-01, 0:34

Answers were correct last week, but then again they were easy. They will get tougher and tougher I promise.

I would ask any albanian speakers, or the ones to whom this level of "assesment" is basic to refrain from posting, at least refrain from doing so until we've had a good number of beginners responding.

Anyways do your best.

Klee
Posts: 68
Joined: 2005-08-23, 7:31
Real Name: Kayleigh
Gender: female
Location: Kent
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby Klee » 2005-12-01, 8:15

My friends all say Tung (hello and goodbye) - they're 25 - i think it depends on who you're speaking too. If the other person is equal or younger than you Tung is ok. If its a formal situation or you are speaking to an elder - I'd use the full.


I think :oops:

User avatar
Rikita
Posts: 585
Joined: 2005-05-22, 1:44
Gender: female
Location: Bln, Dtl

Postby Rikita » 2005-12-01, 21:12

1. Dua që ta bësh.

2. Dojmë që ta shikojmë.

3. Dua që të kremtoj. Ti do që të punoj. Shkoj për ta filloj.

(more sentences later, as I want to think of some when I am at home. But one question - is there some kind of accusative ending that I have to keep in mind if I want to combine the nouns with the verbs, or could I, for example, say "Leshoj televizion."?)

User avatar
Rikita
Posts: 585
Joined: 2005-05-22, 1:44
Gender: female
Location: Bln, Dtl

Postby Rikita » 2005-12-01, 22:30

Klee wrote:ë – like u in nurse
Q – there is no English sound for this – you can pronounce it like cky in stockyard
Rr – like rr in hurrah

some more questions about the pronounciation:

can I imagine the ë like the romanian â or like the ă? or different from both of those? I remember hearing that this sound would be typical for the balkan Sprachbund...

I didn't understand the explanation for Q very well - I imagine it a bit like the German "ch" (the hard form, like "ach") - am I right in this or is it different to that?

I don't know how "hurrah" is pronounced in English. If I read it I wouldn't pronounce it different than the r in robot, but obviously it is. Is it maybe similar to the spanish r? or to the german r?

Klee
Posts: 68
Joined: 2005-08-23, 7:31
Real Name: Kayleigh
Gender: female
Location: Kent
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby Klee » 2005-12-01, 23:30

Hey sorry

Hurrah is possibly a bad example. "rr" is a rolling r that is longer than "r". I can't do this though so just have to hold it for longer :oops:

I'm afraid i don't know Romanian - I'll have to ask someone else for you and get back to you if no-one else does tomorrow.

As for Q - it is like "Ch" but must not be confused with ç. Q is said more at the back of your throat with the back of your tongue touching the roof of your mouth, where as ç is said with your tongue touching the back of your front teeth.
The more you practice the more you'll hear the difference - it's hard to start with. If you have albo friends ask them if they can here the difference and listen to them. Its hard to hear it until your used to it.

Does that help at all?! :? :oops:

User avatar
Rikita
Posts: 585
Joined: 2005-05-22, 1:44
Gender: female
Location: Bln, Dtl

Postby Rikita » 2005-12-01, 23:47

thanks... I am still a bit confused about some things (mainly the q) but I will also go and listen to some sound samples at the university mediateque, that should help.

User avatar
ego
Posts: 4918
Joined: 2004-12-06, 15:19
Real Name: Thanasis
Gender: male
Location: SX
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby ego » 2005-12-02, 11:13

Isn't Q like ch in southern dialects only, and kj in the northern?


Return to “Other Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest