Scots

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Mulder-21
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Postby Mulder-21 » 2006-07-12, 1:35

I just listened to those samples, and I must say, that the sound is really interesting.

I didn't get much of the conversation, but in certain words and sentences, there is a real Norse feel to it, or rather Faroese feel to it, since it's not as soft as say Icelandic or Norwegian.

This one word really surprised me. I heard it to be 'dönder' [d9n:d@r] and probably is 'thunder'

I've written the first vowel as a [9], is this correct? There's really [9] in the Shetlands?

And about the Our Father of the Orkneys:

I understand it, but there are some clear English/Scots loans it in: 'forgive', 'tempa' (tempt), 'delivra' (deliver)

Here's the Faroese version:

Faðir vár, tú, sum ert í himlinum
Heilagt veri navn títt
Komi ríkið títt
Veri vilji tín sum í himli soleiðis eisini á jørðini
Gev okkum í dag okkara dagliga breyð
Og fyrgev okkum syndir okkara, so sum vit eisini fyrigeva teimum, ímóti okkum synda
Og leið okkum ikki í freistingar,
men frels okkum frá tí ila
Tí at títt er ríkið, valdið og heiðurin um allar ævir.
Amen.
Gløgt er gestsins eyga. (Føroyskt orðafelli)
Wise is the stranger's eye. (Faroese saying)
L'occhio dell'ospite è acuto. (Proverbio faroico)
Hosťovo oko je múdre. (Faerské uslovie)

Fluent: Faroese, Danish, English, German
Almost fluent: Norwegian, Swedish
Basic: Slovak (studying), Spanish
Have studied: Hebrew, Russian
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Aleco
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Postby Aleco » 2006-07-13, 21:15

I can't listen, it's RealPlayer... :(
Native (no) Fluent (en-us)
Understands (sv) Understands (dk) Studied (ja)
[flag=Mom's side of the family]fo[/flag] Study now and then (et) Curious about (cs) Playing with (ga)

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Postby Bombuzal » 2006-07-19, 17:29

Hehe, though - it's a shame that many people (even many Scots), have contributed to it's decline and is seen as a filthy bastardisation of English, with bad spelling and grammar :(

Atleast WikiPedia has quite a decent article on Scots. I even found out the meaning's of a couple of words I've used most of my life hehe:

Erse - Used as the English "arse", but derives from "Erisch" ("Irish") and used pejoratively to describe the Gaelic language.

Bridei/Bridey - The name of a cornish-style pasty/pastry, I suspect the name must come from King Bridei IV of the Picts. :))

Sadly, it's only been recently that Scots has been an "official" language with the opening of the Scottish Parliament and EU cultural schemes... Maybe one day it will be acceptable to use Scots in the media but until then - I'd recommend anyone to have a look at the tongue-in-cheek comedy "Chewin' The Fat" (BBC Scotland, available on VHS and DVD).

Oh, and pop in to #Scottish on the UniLang IRC server :P

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Postby utterstarlight » 2006-10-06, 9:32

Mulder-21 wrote:I might be a little confused there, but are there Doric accents of both Scots AND English in Glasgow? And why are they called Doric, since they obviously don't have much to do with Greece (or the old Hellenic countries)?


Pulled this out of wikipedia for you :)

The term "Doric" was used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots as a jocular reference to the Dorian dialect of Greek. The Greek Dorians lived in Sparta, a more rural area, and were supposed by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically, and in a language that was thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.

Use of the term Doric in this context may also arise out of a contrast with the anglicised speech of the Scottish capital, because at one point, Edinburgh was nicknamed 'Athens of the North'. The upper/middle class speech of Edinburgh would thus be 'Attic', making the rural areas' speech 'Doric'.

and an example of some poetry by Charlse Murray:

GIN I was God, sittin' up there abeen,
Weariet nae doot noo a' my darg was deen,
Deaved wi' the harps an' hymns oonendin' ringin',
Tired o' the flockin' angels hairse wi' singin',
To some clood-edge I'd daunder furth an', feth,
Look ower an' watch hoo things were gyaun aneth.
Syne, gin I saw hoo men I'd made mysel'
Had startit in to pooshan, sheet an' fell,
To reive an' rape, an' fairly mak' a hell
O' my braw birlin' Earth,--a hale week's wark--
I'd cast my coat again, rowe up my sark,
An' or they'd time to lench a second ark,
Tak' back my word an' sen' anither spate,
Droon oot the hale hypothec, dicht the sklate,
Own my mistak', an, aince I cleared the brod,
Start a'thing ower again, gin I was God.
Sharon :)

utterstarlight
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Postby utterstarlight » 2006-10-06, 9:38

Aleco wrote:Sorry for the double posting, but what kind of dialect do they talk on the Hebrides?


They speak gaelic and english, the inner hebrides was a base (might still be) for the armed forces so it had a lot of 'english' input from families transfered there from all parts of the uk. The majority of scottish gaelic speakers live on or come from the islands.
Sharon :)

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Postby Condraz23 » 2006-10-13, 18:29

Aye ye ho. Dank ye for the vocabulary guide.

Ah howp ye braw thread helps alot of fowks here who want tae learn the Scots leid. Ye can obviously tell that I'm just ae beginner in the Scots leid but learning it is quite easy since it's so similar to the Inglis leid so ye shouldn't be too concert. But aye, that's all braw fae ye.

Am awa!

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Postby Loiks » 2006-10-21, 11:16

a question: are there any pronounciation rules in Scots whatsoever? We were listening some Scots poetry with my friend just now, who lived and worked in Edinburgh for about a year. Sounded nice!

http://www.scotsindependent.org/feature ... mplete.htm

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Postby Mezzo » 2007-01-17, 22:51

dae ye know where A kan find Scoats lessons?

This is what I have picked up so far, is it right

Condraz23
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Postby Condraz23 » 2007-01-18, 5:11

Hallo Mezzo, hae ye tried...

http://www.scots-online.org

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Translation of Pride and Memory

Postby Greyknightcan » 2007-01-28, 5:13

Hello Daniel
I have recently decided to finally get a tattoo and need some help with a translation.

Clan Anderson Stand Sure

I would allso like to know what the difference in Scots script is from the celtic script.After all this time and thought i want it to be true as possible to my grandfather,s memory.

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Postby Enguehard » 2007-03-04, 8:48

A hae heard that doric soonds like the haurdest scot leid. Is that suithfast?
For exemple, "whit" wad be writen "fit"... Is that acause scandinavian influence is mair important in the north?

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Postby Riadach » 2007-03-13, 14:31

Could it have something to do with Gaelic considering older Irish speakers in conamara pronounce wh as a lateral f when speaking english.

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Translation Assistance

Postby Don Tiki » 2007-03-25, 17:25

"Provoke not the Scotsman" I'm trying to find the Scottish Gaelic translation for a sign to put over my office door, and possibly a tattoo. I'm a decendant of the Forbes clan from Clatt, Aberdeenshire, Scotland around the 1600's
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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Postby Benjamin » 2007-03-30, 22:59

Interesting, its like a dialect of English isn't it? I prefer Gàidhlig to Scots I must say.

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Postby Benjamin » 2007-04-07, 18:39

The thread your posting in now is a different language to Scottish Gaelic, this is Scots which is a dialect of English. The Gaelic forum is called ''Gàidhlig'' (Gaelic) with the small Scottish flag.

But on this assumption that you want it in Gaelic, I would say: ''Na cuir fearg air an Albannach''

Wait for more input though, I am only a beginner in Gaelic.

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Jist drappin by tae say hello.

Postby 2345Q434 » 2007-04-16, 4:45

Hello everybodie! Whit like? A'v been studyin the Scots leid for a wee whilie noo an efter stumblin on tae this forum A decidit it micht be a guid idea tae introduce masel an practice ma ken o the leid. Onybodie want tae hae a blether?

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Purple Julie
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Postby Purple Julie » 2007-04-16, 10:58

Hullo pal. Welcome tae the forum. Ah'm a native Scot, but ah grew up speakin English, so ah cannae help ye much. Ah unnerstaun Scots no bad, but ah canna express masel too guid in it.

Weel, ah've ainly jist jyned the forum an aw, an ah huvnae introduced masel tae the Scots leid forum yet, sae hullo a'body! Ah wis born in Scotland but ah flittit tae Australia wi ma maw an paw an brither whan ah wis jist a wean o eight year auld. Ah read 'Oor Wullie' whan ah wis growin up, sae yon's whaur ah lairnt a wee bit o Scots.

Ah jist did an assignment fer college on Scots. Ah'm studyin linguistics the noo an yon assingment wis fer the subject 'Sociolinguistics'. Ah hud a braw time screivin the essay. It wis fascinatin!

Sae 2345Q434, pal, whaur ur ye from? An whit dae ye dae? Gie us a wee bit o info aboot yersel.

Noo, abody else, whit dialeck o Scots d'ye think ah'm screivin in? Ah think it maun be obvious frae whit ah've screiven.

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Postby 2345Q434 » 2007-04-16, 20:05

Hello Purple Julie. Guid tae meet ye!

As for yer questions, A dinna bide in Scotland. Ma ancestors were fae Scotland, bit ma familie immigratit tae Canada in aboot the early 1900s. A wis born an raisit in Thompson, a wee toon in the province o Manitoba in wastren Canadae. A'm 17 year auld an A'm finishin up heich schuil the noo.

Maist o whit A ken o Scots A lairned fae L. Colin Wilson's buik the "Luath Scots Language Learner" whilk A'm aboot hauf-way throu the noo. A thenk ma vocabular's gettin better but ma grammar's nae perfect an A thenk this shows in ma scrieven.

A'm gey interestit in yer assignment on Scots. If ye wish A'd be mair then willin tae read it.

As for yer quaisten aboot whilk byleid yer speakin, A dinna ken. A'm nae guid at tellin the differ atween the byleids! It leuks gey unalike whit A'm scrieven, bit that may be jist acause o the fact that Scots disna have a staundart wey o spellin.

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Few questions

Postby Cymro » 2007-04-18, 16:30

Is the scots language(!?) an official language? That is, does it have to be put on roadsigns as well as English?

I noticed that "there are many different words to English" - surely this is the same for every dialect of English? On the same track: why are Yorkshirian, American English and Cockey not languages? They have many different words and proverbs too.

Comparing:

English "What time is it?"
Yorkshirian: "Whut taam i'st?"
Cockney: "Wos'uh time?"
Scots: "What time wull it be" (spelling correct?)

Possible measures that could be taken
Either:
-Denounce scots as a language - not very popular I should think
-Make Yorkshirian and Cockney official languages - everybody wins!

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Postby Johanna » 2007-04-18, 17:42

Hehe... "A language is a dialect with an army" or in this case a parliament ;) Just look at Scandinavia, it's the same thing there, most Norwegians and Swedes understand each other almost perfectly but it's still considered two languages. So I guess that until Yorkshire proclaim itself independent from England their dialect will still be called a dialect. ;)
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language, want to understand and speak but can't.


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