Scots

Any language which does not have a specific forum can have a thread made for it here.
User avatar
Ghost
Posts: 189
Joined: 2008-12-25, 5:51
Real Name: in legion

Re: Basic Scots that you need to know!

Postby Ghost » 2009-06-17, 18:36

See ye efter. [si 'jəftʰə] - See you later.

"Efter" in Swedish means "after"...

EDIT:
[...]
It's ae braw day, is it! [ɪts ə 'brɔ: de: ɪz 'ɪtʰ] - It's a fine day, isn't it?

"Bra" in Swedish means "good".
[...]
Basic vocabulary:
[...]
bairn / wean [bɛ:rn] / [wi:n] - child

"Barn" in Swedish means "child".

Now you know.
"
English is essentially language's equivalent to a transvestite
"
--Andreas Johansson

shizi_sprinkles09
Posts: 5
Joined: 2009-05-10, 0:21
Real Name: Robert Lae Wild
Gender: male
Location: Leon
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby shizi_sprinkles09 » 2009-06-17, 23:13

So, I was just curious, do you guys consider Scots to be a completely different language than English. I speak American English and I can understand Scots pretty good and I have never been exposed to the languge before. I'm sure that there are a few words I wouldn't know, but it's the same with my dialect. For example it would be hard for someboddy to understand when I say "Wallago I got my bug runnin' 'cause we're fixin' to go to the show." That sentence makes sence to me and my people, but it wouldn't make much sense to someone from New York. Sometimes it's impossible for people to understand the Oklahoma dialect, but we don't have our own language. It's just a different dialect. :?:

User avatar
Sean of the Dead
Posts: 3884
Joined: 2008-10-11, 17:51
Real Name: Sean Jorgenson
Gender: male
Location: Kent
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby Sean of the Dead » 2009-06-17, 23:18

I believe Scots is a language and should be treated as such. It can be quite easy for a fluent speaker of English to understand written Scots, but when spoken it can be quite incomprehensible.

For an example of this, listen to this recording first, by itself, then listen to it again, but this time read the text along with it. :wink: You won't think easy to understand any longer. :D

And I'm guessing your sentence means:

"A while ago I got my car running/fixed/working, because we want to go to the show."
Am I close?
Main focuses: [flag]kw[/flag] [flag]he[/flag]
Sub focus: Plautdietsch
On my own: [flag]is[/flag]

YngNghymru
Posts: 1537
Joined: 2009-05-21, 10:08
Location: Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-06-18, 10:31

shizi_sprinkles09 wrote:For example it would be hard for someboddy to understand when I say "Wallago I got my bug runnin' 'cause we're fixin' to go to the show."


That's actually quite easy to understand, from context. :P Your accent might or might not make it more difficult to understand. I consider Scots to be a separate language, because when spoken, it is incomprehensible to the untrained ear.
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

User avatar
neoni
Posts: 603
Joined: 2007-07-11, 5:05
Real Name: gòrdan
Gender: male
Location: planet earth

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby neoni » 2009-06-25, 9:53

useless distinction
Image

User avatar
neoni
Posts: 603
Joined: 2007-07-11, 5:05
Real Name: gòrdan
Gender: male
Location: planet earth

Re: Basic Scots that you need to know!

Postby neoni » 2009-06-25, 9:55

Sean of the Dead wrote:
DelBoy wrote:Yep, all around the lowlands (depending on who you speak to - I think it's more of a class thing than a geography thing, from my experiences).
Although I've not been up to Aberdeen, I hear the Doric is crazy up there!

Why do you say Doric is crazy? Do you mean that it's hard to understand or what?

Also, which dialect/dialects are the farthest from English? For example, this Doric recording (the one titled "European Scots), I could only understand about 10 words, but I could understand quite a bit more of the text of it.



i've lived for a year in aberdeen and still barely understand doric

FAR D'YE BIDE MIN?
Image

DenshaOtoko
Posts: 3
Joined: 2009-06-24, 9:43
Real Name: Erin
Gender: female
Location: Glasgow
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Is anybody here actually a NATIVE speaker of Scots?

Postby DenshaOtoko » 2009-06-28, 18:46

neoni wrote:ah am an aw but ah dinnae like writin it doon. ayeways looks a bit dumb.


Aye. Ah agree wae ye. Lukks a bit stupit tae me.

moujick wrote:Ah'm ur tae!!! (the Ayrshire variety)


Aye. Ah'm fae Ayrshire anaw. :)

DenshaOtoko
Posts: 3
Joined: 2009-06-24, 9:43
Real Name: Erin
Gender: female
Location: Glasgow
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby DenshaOtoko » 2009-06-28, 18:58

I personally don't consider it a language. It's too much like English to be considered so. In everyday speech, a lot of people will throw in 'Scoats' words but the majority of what is being said could be understood by English speakers from Australia, England, the U.S etc.

YngNghymru
Posts: 1537
Joined: 2009-05-21, 10:08
Location: Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-06-28, 22:43

The problem is, Densha, by that logic, Norwegian, Swedish and possibly Danish can be considered the same language.
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

User avatar
Johanna
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6285
Joined: 2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name: Johanna
Gender: female
Location: Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby Johanna » 2009-06-29, 0:15

YngNghymru wrote:The problem is, Densha, by that logic, Norwegian, Swedish and possibly Danish can be considered the same language.

Swedish and Norwegian are the same language according to linguists, it's just that the written and spoken standards differ.
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language, want to understand and speak but can't.

YngNghymru
Posts: 1537
Joined: 2009-05-21, 10:08
Location: Wrexham (Wrecsam)
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-06-29, 15:01

Johanna wrote:
YngNghymru wrote:The problem is, Densha, by that logic, Norwegian, Swedish and possibly Danish can be considered the same language.

Swedish and Norwegian are the same language according to linguists, it's just that the written and spoken standards differ.


Yes. But if you asked most NON-linguists, they're separate languages. For political and social reasons they're generally considered separate. According to the government of China, Chinese is one language, with several dialects that are mutually unintelligible. The problem is that there's no universally accepted definition for the two terms.
[flag]en[/flag] native| [flag]cy[/flag] mwy na chdi | [flag]fr[/flag] plus d'un petit peu| [flag]ar[/flag] ليتي استطعت

ég sef á sófanum!

elvisrules
Posts: 25
Joined: 2009-05-16, 23:46
Country: BE Belgium (België / Belgique)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby elvisrules » 2009-07-01, 3:35

There are no universally accepted criteria for the distinction between a language and a dialect.
For Scots I would say that up until the 1700s, the Anglo-Frisian language spoken by the Scottish people was a distinct separate language to that spoken in England, because of its separate history, differences in vocabulary and certain grammatical aspects.
After that time however, with heavy influence from English, the Anglo-Frisian language spoken in Scotland began to resemble English more and more, arriving to the point nowadays that the language currently spoken in Scotland is clearly a form of English.
I don't think I've ever heard Scots spoken devoid of strong English influence. I've remarked that people almost always view Scots as dialect/slang. My great-grandparents' generation, that spoke a more elegant form of Scots without correcting words and pronunciation to match English, is all but gone.

Scots as a language with little English influence does still exist in literature however, e.g. Robert Burns, and many other authors, as well as certain comics such as Oor Willie.
English (British): Native
Français (Belge): Fluent
Nederlands (Vlaams): Advanced
Scots (Central): Average
日本語: Beginner

elvisrules
Posts: 25
Joined: 2009-05-16, 23:46
Country: BE Belgium (België / Belgique)

Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby elvisrules » 2009-07-01, 3:37

And from what I've read by linguists, there seem to be as many who consider Scots a language, as those who consider it a dialect.
English (British): Native
Français (Belge): Fluent
Nederlands (Vlaams): Advanced
Scots (Central): Average
日本語: Beginner

elvisrules
Posts: 25
Joined: 2009-05-16, 23:46
Country: BE Belgium (België / Belgique)

Re: Scots Lessons

Postby elvisrules » 2009-07-01, 3:48

moujick wrote:An anither hing, ah'd like tae ken whit yer distinction atween Scottish English an Scots English is?

I dinnae ken wat ye mean by Scots English: a form o Scots leid mair influenced by English but no fair Scottish English? Or daed ye juist mean Scots?
English (British): Native
Français (Belge): Fluent
Nederlands (Vlaams): Advanced
Scots (Central): Average
日本語: Beginner

User avatar
neoni
Posts: 603
Joined: 2007-07-11, 5:05
Real Name: gòrdan
Gender: male
Location: planet earth

Re: Scots Lessons

Postby neoni » 2009-07-08, 9:55

fae masel 'scots inglis' is the inglis fowk speak in scotland, i.e. wi an accent an wan or twa scots words like 'aye' etc. jist no 'standard english'

"Aye, I cannae remember where he lives."
vs.
"Aye, Ah cannae mynd far he bides."

but fit dae ah ken
Image

michael777
Posts: 4
Joined: 2009-07-13, 9:21
Real Name: Mike Welsh
Gender: male
Location: Glasgow
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Spelling and name translation

Postby michael777 » 2009-07-13, 9:27

Hi
I am currently writing a childrens book for my daughter Jocelyn, it would be great if anyone out there could give me the correct Gaelic spelling for her name and the other main character Rebecca (which might be Ri'obhca?)

Can anyone help?


Thanks
Michael

User avatar
neoni
Posts: 603
Joined: 2007-07-11, 5:05
Real Name: gòrdan
Gender: male
Location: planet earth

Re: Spelling and name translation

Postby neoni » 2009-07-13, 10:02

in hebrew it is Rivka and it seems to be something like that in irish too so just go with riobhca

if you want to be sure go to the gaelic forum (this is the scots one) and find somebody familiar with the bible in gaelic and find out what is used in that.
Image

michael777
Posts: 4
Joined: 2009-07-13, 9:21
Real Name: Mike Welsh
Gender: male
Location: Glasgow
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Spelling and name translation

Postby michael777 » 2009-07-13, 15:08

Thank you so much,

regards

Mike

setsdw
Posts: 3
Joined: 2009-07-15, 1:38
Real Name: Seth
Gender: male
Location: Sparta
Country: US United States (United States)

Pronouncing Help for Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Postby setsdw » 2009-07-15, 1:44

I need some help trying to pronounce this phrase

Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Can anyone spell it phonetically in English?

User avatar
Johanna
Forum Administrator
Posts: 6285
Joined: 2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name: Johanna
Gender: female
Location: Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: Pronouncing Help for Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Postby Johanna » 2009-07-15, 14:32

You realise that posting a question about Scottish Gaelic in the Scots forum is about as smart as posting a question about German in the Spanish forum? ;)

Scots = a Germanic language, very closely related to English, actually so close that it's often seen as a (group of) dialect(s) of it.

Scottish Gaelic = A Celtic language, belonging to another branch of the Indo European languages than English, and therefore quite different from it.


Edit: spelling something phonetically in English is impossible, first of all it doesn't have all sounds that Gaelic has, and on top of that it probably has one of the least phonemic orthographies there is in the Latin alphabet ;) You could however learn some IPA and get a much better idea of how things are pronounced. Here's the Wikipedia article on it, enough to learn the basics :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA
Last edited by Johanna on 2009-07-15, 16:19, edited 2 times in total.
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language, want to understand and speak but can't.


Return to “Other Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest