Scots

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sprussles
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Postby sprussles » 2005-11-18, 11:56

'I go tae Inverness fae Glasgow' is how an Orcadian would say that!

And a form of Gaelic, probably Irish, could have been used by the Picts in Orkney before the Norse came here.

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Gormur
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How to go about learning Scots

Postby Gormur » 2005-11-22, 2:55

If I wanted to learn Scots, what would be the best dialect to learn? Is there any kind of standard or dominant form of the language?

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Postby Mulder-21 » 2005-11-22, 3:05

Just on a side note, that sentence would in Faroese be:

Eg fari til Inverness úr Glasgow.

If Inverness had a Faroese name, it'd be in the genitive case, and Glasgow would be in the dative case.
Gløgt er gestsins eyga. (Føroyskt orðafelli)
Wise is the stranger's eye. (Faroese saying)
L'occhio dell'ospite è acuto. (Proverbio faroico)
Hosťovo oko je múdre. (Faerské uslovie)

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Gormur
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Postby Gormur » 2005-11-22, 19:11

Ok, thanks. :)

Do you know where one could obtain this book?

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Ulster Scots and Lowland Scots

Postby Gormur » 2005-12-06, 18:15

I was reading about Ulster Scots on Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_language
and was wondering, since the status of Ulster Scots is disputed (a language vs. dialect of English/dialect of Scots) amongst linguists, is there one standard of the dialect/language, and is it or are any of them mutually intelligible with Lowland Scots? And finally, what does it mean when a speaker says they speak a "broad dialect" of the language?

Thank ye sae mooch. :)

Gormur

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Postby charlotteh » 2005-12-23, 14:29

Daniel, you're class.

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Postby charlotteh » 2005-12-29, 12:44

Scots-Gaelic is not spoken in the Orkney or Shetland and have in fact never been spoken there before at all.

This is because these islands were originally Norse stronghold - it was part of Norway until about the 14th century! The present dialect still used in these islands is a various of Scots with distinct Norn vocabulary even though Norn (which is a close relative of Faroese) has been extinct since roughly the 16th century when the Scots language was imposed on the native Norn-speaking Orkney and Shetland islanders. The accent that you hear is actually the remnant of the Norn speech!


I'm pretty sure the Norse spoke Gaelic - what were the Innse Gall people if not Gaelic-speaking Norse? When the Norse controlled parts of Scotland they intermarried with the Gaels, took on Gaelic names, and learnt Gaelic so that most of their language influences all but died out. Classic example of Gaelicised Norse name - MacLeod.
And I have a vague recollection of someone saying that Gaelic WAS spoken for a time in Shetland/Orkney. But I can't remember for sure and I don't have any of my lecture notes with me! (Plus the lectures were in Gaelic so my understanding of them may not have been 100% accurate).[/quote]

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Postby Drochfhuaimniú » 2005-12-30, 17:16

sprussles wrote:'I go tae Inverness fae Glasgow' is how an Orcadian would say that!

And a form of Gaelic, probably Irish, could have been used by the Picts in Orkney before the Norse came here.


The Picts had their own language, though, and didn't assimilate into Gaelic. They did either all die out or assimilate in the 800's, I think. At that point Scotland was divided into Inglisc-speaking Bernicia, Gàidhlig-speaking Dál Riata, and Pictish-speaking Pictland.

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Postby Runicus » 2006-02-02, 10:30

Fit lik ma laaddie o faan yer ae quinie, ma quinie? Aam jist tyaavin awa the noo. Ye ken, that is sic ae glaikit thing tae say an aa thenk aat yer ainlie actin it an that is no ae guid thing tae dae, ken. Aa dinna thenk aat abodie cud unnerstaun Scoats - maistlie faan spak.

Hoo caan ye reid Scoats faan abodie writes hit different oniefa acaus thonnas nane ae o common wey an sae monie speikweys? The grammair is gey different no ainlie in speikin bit awso in writin sae ilkane is differnt sae abodie canna gang an blether unnerstaunin ilkabodie.

Noo tell me faan ye hae unnerstuid it acaus ye hae said aat abodie maun hae kenshap o the leid. Och faan ye div then ye micht caan dae it.

Sae noo ye canna say aat ye caan unnerstaun Scoats faan ye hivnae gaun here afore. Here is faai aa thenk aat yer speikin ae muckle o skitter!

Aaricht the noo, aam awa!


I met and had a talk with Daniel in the chatroom this morning and learned for the first time about the Scoats,which I used to mistake for or confuse with Scot Gaelic.Here is what I have translated the text into...my best guess :lol:

"what...when you are a...I'm just...now.You know that it is a...thing to do and I think that you are only acting it and that is not a good thing to do.
I don't think anybody could understand Scoats-mostly when spoken.
"How can you read Scoats when anybody writes it different...because there is no common way and so many ways of speaking?The grammar is...different not only in speaking but also in writing.So...is different so anybody cannot go and... understanding... body.
"Now tell me when you have understood it because you have said that anybody...has the knowledge of the language...when you...then you might be able to do it.
"So now you cannot say that you can understand Scoats when you have not been here before.Here is why I think that you are speaking a muckle of skitter(??)
"All right now I am away"

DANIEL if you are here please correct my version. :)

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diarmuidh
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Postby diarmuidh » 2006-02-20, 14:11

The Picts language was probably like Welsh..there are some Welsh looking components in placenames in Northeastern Scotland e.g. Aberdeen..'Aber' being a word that exists in Welsh but not in the Gaelic Celtic languages..

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Postby diarmuidh » 2006-02-20, 14:24


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Aleco
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Learing Scots

Postby Aleco » 2006-04-19, 20:03

It would be cool to learn Scots! I am determined to lear all the languages of my forfathers, were Scots and Scottish gaelic includes... Someone now where to start?

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Aleco
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Postby Aleco » 2006-04-20, 15:39

The Orkney Norne makes sence to me... too bad it's extinct :cry:

Fy vor or er i Chimeri. / Halaght vara nam dit.
La Konungdum din cumma. / La vill din vera guerde
i vrildin sindaeri chimeri. / Gav vus dagh u dagloght brau.
Forgive sindorwara / sin vi forgiva gem ao sinda gainst wus.
Lia wus ikè o vera tempa, / but delivra wus fro adlu idlu.
For do i ir Kongungdum, u puri, u glori, Amen
Last edited by Aleco on 2006-04-22, 7:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby charlotteh » 2006-04-22, 19:18

Scots has many forms... which region are you looking for?

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Postby Buke » 2006-04-29, 11:55

Hi Gormur!

Did you find something useful? Can you recommend the book Daniel named (if you read it)?

I attended an "Introduction to Scots" class some time ago, our professor recommended A Textual History of Scots by Manfred Görlach which was quite interesting, but rather if you want to learn something about the language, not learn the language itself.

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Aleco
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Postby Aleco » 2006-04-29, 19:22

The most spoken maybe...

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Aleco
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Postby Aleco » 2006-04-30, 18:09

whatdo they talk in the Isles?

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Postby Pål » 2006-07-05, 2:14

This isn't really a helpful post, but I wanted to say I really love this language.
I started to love it with 'Braveheart'. Yes, the movie, and I know now things are not as they're depicted. I know the errors and it only made me love the language more. Though I don't pretend to learn the language in full ever, for I'm not born in Scotland, I feel it is a language sweeter for my tongue than english is (because of it's french influences?).

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Aleco
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Postby Aleco » 2006-07-11, 12:12

Sorry for the double posting, but what kind of dialect do they talk on the Hebrides?
Native (no) Fluent (en-us)
Understands (sv) Understands (dk) Studied (ja)
[flag=Mom's side of the family]fo[/flag] Study now and then (et) Curious about (cs) Playing with (ga)

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Postby Mulder-21 » 2006-07-12, 1:27

I might be a little confused there, but are there Doric accents of both Scots AND English in Glasgow? And why are they called Doric, since they obviously don't have much to do with Greece (or the old Hellenic countries)?
Gløgt er gestsins eyga. (Føroyskt orðafelli)
Wise is the stranger's eye. (Faroese saying)
L'occhio dell'ospite è acuto. (Proverbio faroico)
Hosťovo oko je múdre. (Faerské uslovie)

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