Scots

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neoni
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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby neoni » 2009-06-25, 9:53

useless distinction
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Re: Basic Scots that you need to know!

Postby neoni » 2009-06-25, 9:55

Sean of the Dead wrote:
DelBoy wrote:Yep, all around the lowlands (depending on who you speak to - I think it's more of a class thing than a geography thing, from my experiences).
Although I've not been up to Aberdeen, I hear the Doric is crazy up there!

Why do you say Doric is crazy? Do you mean that it's hard to understand or what?

Also, which dialect/dialects are the farthest from English? For example, this Doric recording (the one titled "European Scots), I could only understand about 10 words, but I could understand quite a bit more of the text of it.



i've lived for a year in aberdeen and still barely understand doric

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Re: Is anybody here actually a NATIVE speaker of Scots?

Postby DenshaOtoko » 2009-06-28, 18:46

neoni wrote:ah am an aw but ah dinnae like writin it doon. ayeways looks a bit dumb.


Aye. Ah agree wae ye. Lukks a bit stupit tae me.

moujick wrote:Ah'm ur tae!!! (the Ayrshire variety)


Aye. Ah'm fae Ayrshire anaw. :)

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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby DenshaOtoko » 2009-06-28, 18:58

I personally don't consider it a language. It's too much like English to be considered so. In everyday speech, a lot of people will throw in 'Scoats' words but the majority of what is being said could be understood by English speakers from Australia, England, the U.S etc.

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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-06-28, 22:43

The problem is, Densha, by that logic, Norwegian, Swedish and possibly Danish can be considered the same language.
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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby Johanna » 2009-06-29, 0:15

YngNghymru wrote:The problem is, Densha, by that logic, Norwegian, Swedish and possibly Danish can be considered the same language.

Swedish and Norwegian are the same language according to linguists, it's just that the written and spoken standards differ.
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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby YngNghymru » 2009-06-29, 15:01

Johanna wrote:
YngNghymru wrote:The problem is, Densha, by that logic, Norwegian, Swedish and possibly Danish can be considered the same language.

Swedish and Norwegian are the same language according to linguists, it's just that the written and spoken standards differ.


Yes. But if you asked most NON-linguists, they're separate languages. For political and social reasons they're generally considered separate. According to the government of China, Chinese is one language, with several dialects that are mutually unintelligible. The problem is that there's no universally accepted definition for the two terms.
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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby elvisrules » 2009-07-01, 3:35

There are no universally accepted criteria for the distinction between a language and a dialect.
For Scots I would say that up until the 1700s, the Anglo-Frisian language spoken by the Scottish people was a distinct separate language to that spoken in England, because of its separate history, differences in vocabulary and certain grammatical aspects.
After that time however, with heavy influence from English, the Anglo-Frisian language spoken in Scotland began to resemble English more and more, arriving to the point nowadays that the language currently spoken in Scotland is clearly a form of English.
I don't think I've ever heard Scots spoken devoid of strong English influence. I've remarked that people almost always view Scots as dialect/slang. My great-grandparents' generation, that spoke a more elegant form of Scots without correcting words and pronunciation to match English, is all but gone.

Scots as a language with little English influence does still exist in literature however, e.g. Robert Burns, and many other authors, as well as certain comics such as Oor Willie.
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Re: Scots, is it a language or dialect?

Postby elvisrules » 2009-07-01, 3:37

And from what I've read by linguists, there seem to be as many who consider Scots a language, as those who consider it a dialect.
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Re: Scots Lessons

Postby elvisrules » 2009-07-01, 3:48

moujick wrote:An anither hing, ah'd like tae ken whit yer distinction atween Scottish English an Scots English is?

I dinnae ken wat ye mean by Scots English: a form o Scots leid mair influenced by English but no fair Scottish English? Or daed ye juist mean Scots?
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Re: Scots Lessons

Postby neoni » 2009-07-08, 9:55

fae masel 'scots inglis' is the inglis fowk speak in scotland, i.e. wi an accent an wan or twa scots words like 'aye' etc. jist no 'standard english'

"Aye, I cannae remember where he lives."
vs.
"Aye, Ah cannae mynd far he bides."

but fit dae ah ken
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Spelling and name translation

Postby michael777 » 2009-07-13, 9:27

Hi
I am currently writing a childrens book for my daughter Jocelyn, it would be great if anyone out there could give me the correct Gaelic spelling for her name and the other main character Rebecca (which might be Ri'obhca?)

Can anyone help?


Thanks
Michael

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Re: Spelling and name translation

Postby neoni » 2009-07-13, 10:02

in hebrew it is Rivka and it seems to be something like that in irish too so just go with riobhca

if you want to be sure go to the gaelic forum (this is the scots one) and find somebody familiar with the bible in gaelic and find out what is used in that.
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Re: Spelling and name translation

Postby michael777 » 2009-07-13, 15:08

Thank you so much,

regards

Mike

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Pronouncing Help for Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Postby setsdw » 2009-07-15, 1:44

I need some help trying to pronounce this phrase

Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Can anyone spell it phonetically in English?

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Re: Pronouncing Help for Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Postby Johanna » 2009-07-15, 14:32

You realise that posting a question about Scottish Gaelic in the Scots forum is about as smart as posting a question about German in the Spanish forum? ;)

Scots = a Germanic language, very closely related to English, actually so close that it's often seen as a (group of) dialect(s) of it.

Scottish Gaelic = A Celtic language, belonging to another branch of the Indo European languages than English, and therefore quite different from it.


Edit: spelling something phonetically in English is impossible, first of all it doesn't have all sounds that Gaelic has, and on top of that it probably has one of the least phonemic orthographies there is in the Latin alphabet ;) You could however learn some IPA and get a much better idea of how things are pronounced. Here's the Wikipedia article on it, enough to learn the basics :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA
Last edited by Johanna on 2009-07-15, 16:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pronouncing Help for Cuimhnich air na daoine o'n d'thaining

Postby neoni » 2009-07-15, 15:44

i'm making a lentil dahl in my slow cooker for dinner tonight and i just had a wee taste of it and it's going to be really good. i'm really looking forward to eating it. mmm
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Re: Is anybody here actually a NATIVE speaker of Scots?

Postby moujick » 2009-07-17, 21:44

DenshaOtoko wrote:
neoni wrote:ah am an aw but ah dinnae like writin it doon. ayeways looks a bit dumb.


Aye. Ah agree wae ye. Lukks a bit stupit tae me.

moujick wrote:Ah'm ur tae!!! (the Ayrshire variety)


Aye. Ah'm fae Ayrshire anaw. :)


Whauraboots ur ye?

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Re: Scots Lessons

Postby moujick » 2009-07-17, 21:58

elvisrules wrote:
moujick wrote:An anither hing, ah'd like tae ken whit yer distinction atween Scottish English an Scots English is?

I dinnae ken wat ye mean by Scots English: a form o Scots leid mair influenced by English but no fair Scottish English? Or daed ye juist mean Scots?


Thats whit ah wis askin ay ThomasUK, ah don't see a distinction atween Scottish English and Scots English...but ah dae atween Scots and Scottish English.

Ah huv tae say that even atween theam, drawin the line is difficult especially cause folk chynge their register aw the time....ah ken ah dae

fur neoni's post:-

neoni wrote:fae masel 'scots inglis' is the inglis fowk speak in scotland, i.e. wi an accent an wan or twa scots words like 'aye' etc. jist no 'standard english'

"Aye, I cannae remember where he lives."
vs.
"Aye, Ah cannae mynd far he bides."

but fit dae ah ken


Ah hink he's richt but ah wid coont the saicant as Scots.

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Re: Is anybody here actually a NATIVE speaker of Scots?

Postby moujick » 2009-07-17, 22:02

DenshaOtoko wrote:
neoni wrote:ah am an aw but ah dinnae like writin it doon. ayeways looks a bit dumb.


Aye. Ah agree wae ye. Lukks a bit stupit tae me.

moujick wrote:Ah'm ur tae!!! (the Ayrshire variety)


Aye. Ah'm fae Ayrshire anaw. :)


Huv tae say ah'm no way youse oan this wan. Only lukks styipuit cause we're aw condeetiont tae hink ay it like that.......it's the Scottish cringe.


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