księżyc - Arandic Notebook

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księżyc - Arandic Notebook

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-05, 22:31

Well, I could have taken over the old Arrernte thread, but seeing as it's over 6 years old, I thought it best to start anew. Just for fun (but with enough of an eye to at least finish my textbook and probably some children's stories) I've decided to pick up this AAL (Australian Aboriginal language). I'm going to go through chapter 1 of A Learner's Guide to Eastern and Central Arrernte by Jenny Green, mostly with an eye on the sounds of the language.

I hope to start posting some stuff in a week or two. :)
Last edited by księżycowy on 2017-12-09, 10:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: księżyc - Arrernte angkentye

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-07, 11:38

I've been going over the audio I have for the course, and have been puzzling over the sound <th>. I'm not sure if it represents //, /θ~ð/ or something in between.

Based on the overall spelling system, my guess is for //, but I get hints of something like /ð/ at times.

It's also conceivable that I'm way off.

:hmm:

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Re: księżyc - Arrernte angkentye

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-11, 21:25

So, after spending some more time with the Learner's Guide, I kinda get it. It's not really an aspirated /tʰ/, it's about tongue placement. Which, being an English speaker, is a very subtle difference. The <t> and <p> based sounds tend to fluctuate in their voicedness (if that's not a word, it is now). That's probably what I thought was the /ð/ sound.

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Re: księżyc - Arrernte angkentye

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-12, 14:34

I'm still digesting this all, but I might as well share the grammar bits I've learned thus far.

1. This and That:
nhenhe - this
yanhe - that
nhakwe - that (far)

2. The verb "to be":
Nhenhe apmere. This is a/the house. (lit. this house)
Yanhe alhe. That is a nose. (lit. that nose)
etc.

As can be seen, the verb "to be" is generally non-existent. From the notes in the Learner Guide, it's not used in the other tenses either. Arrernte might use a different verb to signal a different tense.

Artwe tneke. A Man was there. -or- A Man was standing there. (lit. man stood)

2. Word Order:
Word order is generally free.

a. Ampele arne akngerre ultakeke.
b. Arne akngerre ampele ultakeke.
c. Ampele ultakeke arne akngerre.
d. Arne akngerre ultakeme ampele.
e. Ultakeke ampele arne akngerre.
f. Ultakeke arne akngerre ampele.

All of the above sentences are grammatically correct and more or less convey the same message - "The boy broke the big stick" (ampe - child, ultakeke - broke). However, it can be said that the normal sentence structure prefers the verb at the end of the sentence.

[These sentences also exemplify another feature of Arrenrte grammar. See if you can spot it and guess it's function. No cheating! :nono: ]

3. Adjectives:
Adjectives follow the noun they modify. Based on our above sentences in 2, arne akngerre means big stick (lit. stick big).

4. Basic Verb Tenses:
ultakeme - breaking (present)
ultakeke - broke (past)
ultaketyenhe - will break (future)

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Re: księżyc - Arrernte angkentye

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-11-13, 11:41

księżycowy wrote:
a. Ampele arne akngerre ultakeke.
b. Arne akngerre ampele ultakeke.
c. Ampele ultakeke arne akngerre.
d. Arne akngerre ultakeme ampele.
e. Ultakeke ampele arne akngerre.
f. Ultakeke arne akngerre ampele.

All of the above sentences are grammatically correct and more or less convey the same message - "The boy broke the big stick" (ampe - child, ultakeke - broke). However, it can be said that the normal sentence structure prefers the verb at the end of the sentence.

[These sentences also exemplify another feature of Arrenrte grammar. See if you can spot it and guess it's function. No cheating! :nono: ]



I try to guess: the suffix -le (ampe-le) is the ergative suffix. (I already know that Arrernte is an ergative language).

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Re: księżyc - Arrernte angkentye

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-13, 13:23

I could tell you now if you're right or not, but I'll wait a bit. :P

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Re: księżyc - Arrernte angkentye

Postby księżycowy » 2017-11-14, 10:42

Ok, I guess noöne else wanted to play. Oh well. :P

Yup, it's the suffix +le, which although I can't say if it's the ergative suffix or not I can say it denotes the actor in a transitive sentence (such verbs are called +le verbs in Arrernte grammar).

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Re: księżyc - Arandic Notebook

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-09, 10:28

Considering my interest in both Arrernte and Kaytetye and their very close linguistic proximity, I've decided to rename this thread accordingly. I'll use this for learning both languages. I very well may switch over to Kaytetye when I pick up an Arandic language up again. Once I've learn one language, I'll post comparisons and differences as I learn the other.

Anyway, it's at least a month before I pick either of them up again. And I'm not sure if I want to switch to Wati first, for that matter. But we'll worry about that later. :P

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Re: księżyc - Arandic Notebook

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-19, 23:08

So, ask promised, it's been a few months and I'm returning to Arandic!

As the spelling of Kaytetye in both my dictionary and "reader" are of a different spelling system then my textbook, and much closer to Arrernte, I figure I'll start with Arrernte and then pick up Katetye afterward.

Plus, I was learning some Arrernte before. :P

For now, I'll go through the phonology sections of the Learner's Guide and take it slowly. Kind of like how Seneca is going.


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