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Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-02, 23:35
by Massimiliano B
I haven't checked all the texts. I think the last one is about literature.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-02, 23:46
by księżycowy
I was poking around, and it looks like a lot of them are childrens' textbooks/primers. Probably school textbooks.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-02, 23:54
by Massimiliano B
I think that the first ones in the list are childrens' textbook. This one, for example, http://minobr.ru/audio/audiobook15/adg_15.pdf is for adults.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-03, 1:43
by księżycowy
Maybe not adults, but certainly teens.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-09, 23:44
by Massimiliano B
księżycowy wrote:Maybe not adults, but certainly teens.


Yes, you're right. And - above all - those books are directed to people who already know the language. However, I'll try to bring out something from the first book here.

хь = voiceless pharyngeal fricative [ħ], like Arabic ح
ч = voiceless palato-alveolar sibilant affricate [t͡ʃ]
жъ = voiced alveolo-palatal sibilant fricative [ʑ]


O cыдa пцIэp? [wɜ səda: pt͡sʼɜr] (you what your(?)-name) = What is your name?

Cэ cцIэp Диана. [sɜ st͡sʼɜr dja:na:] (I my-name Diana) = My name is Diana.

Mыp Фатима? [mər fa:tjəma:] (this Fatima) = Is this Fatima?

Apы [a:rə] = Yes
Хьау [ħa:w] = No

Mыp xэта? [mər xɜta:] / Xэтa мыp? [xɜta: mər] (this who / who this) = Who is this?
Mыp Антон [mər a:ntɜwn]

Xэта мыp? [xɜta: mər] = Who is this?
Mыp cшы [mər sʃə] (Mыp c-шы = this my-brother) = This is my brother

Ap pyчка? [a:r rwət͡ʃka:] (Ap pyчк-а = This pen-interroative) = Is this a pen?

Cыдa гъoжъыp [səda ʁwɜʑər] (What yellow-abs) = What is yellow?
Бананыр гъoжъы [ba:na:nər ʁwɜʑə] (Banana-abs yellow) = The banana is yellow.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-10, 0:49
by księżycowy
Do you know Russian, Mass?
I hope you don't mind me calling you that.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-10, 9:59
by Massimiliano B
księżycowy wrote:Do you know Russian, Mass?
I hope you don't mind me calling you that.



I can read Russian alphabet and I can understand simple sentences.

I like the nickname Mass - "a large body of matter with no definite shape", "a religious ceremony in some Christian Churches based on Jesus' last meal with his disciples, or music written for parts of this ceremony".

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-10, 13:11
by księżycowy
Massimiliano B wrote:I can read Russian alphabet and I can understand simple sentences.

Ah, I wasn't sure how much you could read any of those textbooks.

If we could get someone to translate them, I might reconsider learning some with you.
Though I've been tossing around the idea anyway.

It wouldn't happen tomorrow though, even if I did join you. Maybe about a month from now though. We'll see.

I like the nickname Mass - "a large body of matter with no definite shape", "a religious ceremony in some Christian Churches based on Jesus' last meal with his disciples, or music written for parts of this ceremony".

I've been pronouncing your nickname as /mas/ where as I would pronounce the other definitions you gave as /mæs/.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-13, 14:06
by księżycowy
Just in case anyone comes to this thread and hasn't seen our poll in the Georgian forum, please check out this poll that will help us decide what to do with the Northwest, Northeast Caucasian, Kartvelian languages and with Ossetic and Armenian.

viewtopic.php?f=22&p=1103268#p1103268

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-15, 23:11
by Massimiliano B
(Adyghe)

гу = labialized voiced velar stop [ɡʷ]
тӏ = alveolar ejective [tʼ]
ё = like in Russian (only in loanwords) [jo]


From lesson 5 (http://www.goethe-verlag.com/book2/EN/ENAD/ENAD002.HTM)

In the following sentence there are neither prepositions nor postpositions. The direction "from" must be expressed by the verb щыщ [ɕəɕ], but I don't know how this happens.

Джон Лондон щыщ. [d͡ʒɜn 'lɜndən ɕəɕ] (John London "comefrom"/he) = John is from London.

The suffix -кIэ is the instrumental case. Its meaning is "by/with". It is added to the language which is spoken:

Ар инджылызыбзэкIэ мэгущыIэ. [a:r jənd͡ʒələzə'bzɜt͡ʃʼɜ mɜɡʷ'ɕəʔɜ] (Ар инджылызыбзэ-кIэ мэ-гущыIэ = he English-instr. he-speak) = He speaks English.

Пётррэ Мартэрэ Берлин щыщых. ['pjotrrэ 'ma:rtэrэ bjɜr'ləjn ɕə'ɕəx] (Пётр-рэ Мартэ-рэ Берлин щыщых = Peter-and Martha-and Berlin "comefrom"/they) = Peter and Martha are from Berlin.

The interrogation is made by adding -a at the end of the verb:

ШъуитIо нэмыцыбзэкIэ шъогущыIа? ['ʂwəjtʼwɜ nэmət͡sə'bzэt͡ʃʼэ ʂwɜɡʷɕə'ʔa:] (Шъуи-тIо нэмыцыбзэ-кIэ шъо-гущыI-а = You-two English-instr. you-speak-interr.) = Do both of you speak German?


I've found some grammatical informations here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyghe_grammar

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-19, 11:43
by Massimiliano B
A short grammar of Kabardian (PDF) by Ranko Matasović:

http://mudrac.ffzg.unizg.hr/~rmatasov/K ... rammar.pdf

Kabardian is alson known as East-Circassian. Adyghe is known as West-Circassian. The two languages are mutually intellegible to some extent.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-19, 13:27
by księżycowy
Why do you tempt me so, Mass! :doggy:

I'd love to dig into some Kabardian....

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-26, 22:36
by Massimiliano B
księżycowy wrote:I'd love to dig into some Kabardian....


I prefer Adyghe because it has more phonemes than Kabardian.


(Adyghe)

кIу = labialized ejective voiceless velar stop [kʼʷ]. Lips are rounded before, during, and after the articulation of the [].
дз = voiced alveolar sibilant affricate [d͡z]


(From lesson 21) (http://www.goethe-verlag.com/book2/EN/ENAD/ENAD002.HTM)

Тыдэ укъикIырэ? [tədɜ wəqəjt͡ʃʼərɜ] (Тыдэ у-къи-кIы-рэ = Where you-?-"comefrom"-?) = "Where do you come from?". I don't understand the meaning either of the prefix -къи- and the suffix -рэ. I think that the stem of the verb "to come" is -кIы-.
Базель сыкъекIы. [ba:zjɜl səqɜjt͡ʃʼə] (Базель сы-къе-кIы =Basel I-?-"comefrom") = I come from Basel.
Базель Швейцарием ит. [ba:zjɜl ʃvjɜjt͡sa:rəjɜm jət] (Базель Швейцарием ит = Basel Switzerland-erg/obl. is) = "Basel is in Switzerland". ит [jət] literally meand "to stand inside" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyghe_ve ... onjugation).

Сыд сэнэхьата уиIэр? [səd sɜnɜħa:ta: wəjʔɜr] (Сыд сэ-нэхьат-а у-иIэр = What ?-profession-interr you-do) = What is your profession?
Сэ сызэдзэкIакIу. [sɜ səzɜd͡zɜ[tʃʼa:kʷʼ] (Сэ сы-зэдзэкIакIу = I ?-translator-) = I am a translator.

I use the question mark when I don't understand the meaning of a morpheme.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-03-26, 22:45
by księżycowy
I can't say I have any greater love for one of the dialects over the other. I just go with the one that has more resources I can use. :P

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-04-07, 10:06
by Massimiliano B
Adyghe language course in Russian (for children, with audio):

http://karataban.ru/

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-05-01, 10:56
by Massimiliano B
Adyghe-Russian dictionary:

https://adyghe_explanatory.academic.ru/
(by clicking on переводы you can change the languages)


Adyghe-Russian and Kabardian-Russian dictionaries:

https://sites.google.com/site/cerkesdict/


Informations about Adyghe (in Russian):

http://www.languages-study.com/adyge.html


A site about Adyghe and Kabardian languages and cultures (in French):

http://tcherkesse.free.fr/


A site about a new alphabet for the Adyghe language:

http://skyknowledge.com/adyghe.htm


A YouTube Channel about the Adyghe language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raa5aP4Yzo4


Adyghe-Turkish phrase-book:

http://www.circassiancenter.com/cc-turk ... uzu_01.htm

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-05-27, 21:19
by Massimiliano B
Massimiliano B wrote:Adyghe language course in Russian (for children, with audio):

http://karataban.ru/


I've studied the first book.

Re: Kabardian and Adyghe

Posted: 2018-06-24, 10:02
by Massimiliano B
One of the most interesting facts about Adyghe is that it has no prepositions, but only postpositions, and their use is very limited. The idea of being inside/on/under something, or of going somewhere, is conveyed by the verb and by a general "oblique" case ending attached to the noun. For example, if I want to say that "they are sitting in the classrom" I say: Ахзр классым исых. The first word means "they", the second (borrowed from russian) means "the classrom" and the final -m is the general "oblique definite" case, which means that the classrom is neither subject nor object, but an indirect object; the third word is composed by three parts: и- which means "inside", -c- which means "sitting", and -ых which means "third person plural". There are neither prepositions nor postpositions. The word класс ends in a general oblique-definite case (-м), which can be used for every kind of spatial adjuncts. The idea of sitting "inside" is conveyed by the verb.