(Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Any language which does not have a specific forum can have a thread made for it here.
IpseDixit

(Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-04-25, 15:44

Ok, so I'm mainly writing this for myself, because writing things down helps me memorize. But since I'm doing this, I thought it could be a nice idea to share it with others, although I doubt many people will be intersted! So here's my personal Ladin course. :silly:

(Do not expect a regular posting though...)

Feel free to ask if something is not clear!

The variety I'm studying is Fascian. Spoken in Val de Fascia (Fassa Valley).

[flag=]lld[/flag]HOW TO FORM THE PLURAL[flag=]lld[/flag]

So, first of all some clarification about pronunciation:

final c ---> /ʨ/ (when it's not final it's /ʨ/ if followed by i and e and /k/ if followed by a, o and u)
final sc ---> /ʃ/ (when it's not final it's /ʃ/ if followed by i and e and /ʃk/ if followed by a, o and u)
j ---> /ʒ/
ch ---> /k/
sch ---> /ʃk/
cs ---> /ks/
sć ---> /ʃʨ/
gn ---> /ɲ/

Hope my IPA is correct, I suck at it :para:

FEMININE

-a ---> -es
-e ---> -s
-o ---> -s
---> -èdes
---> -udes
-n, -t ---> -s
-c, -m, -p, -r ---> -es
-s ---> -es (plus the doubling of the final s of the root, e.g: clas ---> classes)
-f ---> -es (and the f becomes voiced, e.g: sief ---> sieves)
-sc ---> -es (and the sc becomes voiced, e.g: ousc ---> oujes)

MASCULINE

Sigmatic plural:

-c, -f, -gn, -m, -p, -r, -sc ---> -es
sometimes -f and -sc become voiced, e.g: ruf--->ruves, usc--->ujes but sometimes not: sbauf--->sbaufes, sbrisc--->sbrisces
[exception: om--->omegn (not oms)]

-consonant + -er ---> sometimes you just add -es, e.g: tisler--->tisleres, sometimes you also change the root: chèder--->chèdres

-a ---> -es, e.g: bèrba---> bèrbes, stema--->stemes

, , ---> add -es and don't write the accent: codé--->codees, londò--->londoes, nevó--->nevoes.
[exceptions: pe--->piesc, bo--->bues]

-ai, -ei, -oi ---> you eliminate i and add -es: rai--->raes, parei--->parees, bedoi--->bedoes

-ui--->-es: tarlui--->tarluies

-in, -un---> -s: molin--->molins, comun--->comuns

-ich (non tonic)---> -ics: ebraich--->ebraics

-e ---> -es

Plural in -i

-al---> -ai (ciaval--->ciavai)
-èl---> -èi (ospedèl--->ospedèi)
-il---> -ii (fil---> -fii)
-ol ---> -oi (àgnol--->àgnoi)
-ul---> -ui (mul ---> mui)
[irregular nouns: peil--->pei, fideil--->fidei, soul--->soi]

-el---> sometimes -ìe (martel--->martìe) sometimes -ei (lenzel--->lenzei)

With non assimilated loanwords:

-o ---> -i (auto---> auti)
-e ---> -i (còmplize--->còmplizi)

for past participle:

---> -ii (fenì---> fenii)
---> -ui (contegnù ---> contegnui)
[exceptions: dì--->dis, fi--->fies]

Plural with palatalization:

-s ---> -sc (ors--->orsc)
-t, -z ---> -c (maraut--->marauc, bez--->bec)
-ech (non tonic) ---> -esc (mènech--->mènesc)
-ich (tonic) ---> -isc
---> (tobià ---> tobié)
[exception: fra--->fredes]

Hybrid forms

-ch (and tonic syllable)---> sometimes -ches (e.g. pach-->-ches), sometimes -c (tòch--->tòc)

-sch ---> sometimes -sches (chiosch--->chiosches), sometimes -sć (desch ---> desć)

-an ---> -s or -iegn
-en ---> -s or -egn
-on ---> -s or -ogn
-rn ---> -s or -rgn

(-s is usually used for words of recent origin)

-ent ---> -ents or -enc
-ont ---> -onts or -onc

Unvaried plural ( for feminine words)

-used with foreign words

Unvaried plural (for masculine words) is used with:

- neologisms and foreign words
- compound nouns
- some nouns ending in -sc, -c and

[flag=]lld[/flag]PERSONAL SUBJECT PRONOUNS[flag=]lld[/flag]

The Ladin PSP are divided into two classes:

-strong (forta or tonica)
-weak (débola or àtona)
the latter devided in:
--- affirmative weak
--- interrogative


STRONG PSP:

1 sing:
2 sing: Tu
3 masc. sing: El
3 fem. sing: Ela
1 masc. pl: Nos / nos etres
1 fem. pl: Nos / nos autres
2 masc. pl: Vo / voetres
2 fem. pl: Vo / voautres
3 masc. pl: Ic
3 fem. pl: Eles

This form is usually used to highlight the subject or to express a contrast between two subjects.

Vo is also the courtesy form, in this case it must be always capitalized. Adjectives and nouns follow the logical gender, not the grammatical one.

AFFIRMATIVE WEAK PSP

1 sing: -
2 sing: Te / T' (t' is used with words beginning with a vowel)
3 masc. sing: L / L' (l' is used with words beginning with a voewl)
3 fem. sing: La / L' (l' is used only with the verb aer - to have)
1 pl: -
2 pl: -
3 masc. pl: I
3 fem. pl: Les


This class of pronouns is used:

- always with the 2nd singular person, also when it also has the strong form: tu t'es belot, tu te ves n muie de roba.
- with the 3rd singular and plural person when the subject isn't otherwise expressed.
- in subordinated clauses (with percheche-because, se-if, endena che - during etc etc)
- in coordinated clauses [ that's to say with e/o - end/or] (at least usually)
- in appositive relative clauses with che as subject
- when the subject is separated from the verb by incisive clauses.

It is not used with:

- 1st singular and plural person
- 2nd plural person
- restrictive relative clauses.
- when the subject is already expressed by a noun, a strong PSP or other kinds of pronouns
- when the conjugated verb is not repeated: l'à soprescià, fat da magnèr, lavà jù

NEGATIVE FORM

The negative form of the PSP is formed by adding no between the pronoun and the verb.

For the weak form the form no+pronoun+verb is also accepted, but it's considered colloquial. This kind of order is compulsory for the impersonal l and ge and se:

no l pief, no se capesc nia, no ge volessa esser massa spevesc.

INTERROGATIVE FORM (enclitic)

1 sing: -(e)
2 sing:-te
3 masc. sing: -(e)l
3 fem. sing: -(e)la
1 pl: -e
2 pl: -
3 masc. pl: -(e)i
2 fem. pl: -(e)les

- in the first singular person, only the verb esser - to be has an enclitic form:

Gé son---> sone

- in the 3rd singular and plural persons, phonetic changes may occur, e.g:

L depenc---> depénjel

- the 1st plural person has an enclitic form only for those form ending with consonants.

Cherdon---> cherdone

but

Aede---> aede

[flag=]lld[/flag]DIRECT & INDIRECT PERSONAL PRONOUNS[flag=]lld[/flag]

Both indirect and direct pronouns are divided in a strong and a weak form.

INDIRECT PRONOUN (i.e: dative [to me, to you etc etc]), WEAK FORM

1 sing: me
2 sing: te
3 sing: ge
1 plur: ne
2 plur: ve
3 plur: ge

INDIRECT PRONOUN, STRONG FORM

1 sing: a mi
2 sing: a ti
3 masc. sing: a el
3 fem sing: a ela
1 plur: a nos
2 plur: a vo
3 masc. plur: a ic
3 fem. plur: a eles

DIRECT PRONOUN (i.e: accusative), WEAK FORM

1 sing: me
2 sing: te
3 masc. sing: l (l') - lo (l' is to be used with words beginning with vowel)
3 fem sing: la (l') (the l' form is used only with the verb aer-to have and only when the conjugated forms of aer begin with a)
1 plur: ne
2 plur: ve
3 masc. plur: i - li
3 fem. plur: les

DIRECT PRONOUN, STRONG FORM

1 sing: me
2 sing: te
3 masc. sing: el
3 fem sing: ela
1 plur: nos
2 plur: vo
3 masc. plur: ic
3 fem. plur: eles

HOW TO USE THE PRONOUNS:

The 2 strong forms are used:

- in order to highlight the object. La ge à dat l liber a el. (she gave the book to him [not to someone else]); Ujèna ama el (Ujèna loves him [and not someone else]
- the direct strong form is also used with other prepositions different from a, e.g: per ela-for her, con ic-with them

The weak pronouns must always precede the verb, except for the affermative imperative, e.g: me dèr ( to give me) becomes dame! (give me!)

When the verb is compound, there are different cases:

- you usually have to put the pronoun between the first verb and the infinitive, e.g: tu te cogn l dir - you have to say that.

-in certain idioms ( which represents a "conceptual unit") it must be put before the two verbs, e.g: no poder veder means "to not stand", so it's gé no l posse veder- I can't stand him. But if it means "not being able to see", then it's: gé no posse l veder.

- with factive verbs, then again the pronoun must be put before the two verbs.

- lo and li are used in place of l and i when l and i are also the personal subject pronoun of the sentence (see lesson number 2), e.g: L lo vel - he (L) wants (vel) it (lo, and not l); I li vèrda - they watch them.

- The indirect object pronoun must be used also when the dative is expressed by another term, e.g:

Tu te cognes ge dèr 10 euro a Zezilia. (you have to give 10 euros to Zezilia). Even though the dative is already expressed by a Zezilia, ge must be added anyway. A word-for-word translation would be: you have to give to her 10 euros to Zezilia.

- When they're both in the weak form, the direct pronoun follows the indirect one, e.g: el vel ge (indirect) l (direct) dir - he wants to tell him/her that.
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2014-09-09, 10:48, edited 4 times in total.

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-04-27, 18:31

[flag=]lld[/flag]ARTICLES[flag=]lld[/flag]

Definite (i.e. the)

Masculine singular: l - l' (l' is for word beginning with vowel)
Masculine plral: i
Feminine singular: la
Feminine: plural: la - l' - les (les must be used only with numbers, except for la does. L' is for word beginning with vowels but in that case also la is acceptable especially with words beginning with i , u and o)

Indefinite (i.e: a/an)

Masculine singular: n
feminine singular na / n' (n' must be used with words beginning with a vowel, na is also acceptable, especially in the written form)

There is no plural form of the indefinite articles, there are some indefinite adjectives that I'll show you in the next lessons.

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-04-27, 18:38

[flag=]lld[/flag]POSSESSIVE ADJECTIVES AND PRONOUNS[flag=]lld[/flag]

ADJECTIVES

Masculine singular

Attributive form

mi (my)
ti - to (your, singular)
si - so (his)
nosc (our)
vosc (your, plur)
si - so (their)

Predicative form

mie
tie
sie
nosc
vosc
sie

-the attributive form is used in cases like this:

Chel é si ciaval - that's his horse

- The predicative form is used in cases like this:

Chel cian é mie - that dog is mine
Chest vidor é sie - this garden is his.

- to and so are usually colloquial forms.

Masculine plural

Attributive form

mi
ti
si
nesc
vesc
si


Predicative form

mie
tie
sie
nesc
vesc
sie


Feminine singular adjectives

Attributive form

mia
tia
sia
noscia
voscia
sia


Predicative form

mia
tia
sia
noscia
voscia
sia


Feminine plural

Attributive form

mia
tia
sia
noscia
voscia
sia


Predicative form

mies
ties
sies
nosces
vosces
sies


PRONOUNS

The pronouns are formed with the predicative form and the article preceding it. The article and the possesive must be accorded in gender and number , hence:

l mie - mine (masc. sing.)
la mies - mine (fem. plur.)
i sies - his (masc. plur)
la tie - yours (fem. sing)

and so on and so forth...

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-04-29, 8:32

[flag=]lld[/flag]REFLEXIVE PRONOUNS[flag=]lld[/flag]

I'm not going to explain what the reflexive form is because it would be too lenghty and I'm not even sure I'd be able to explain it decently. You just need to know that it works like in other Romance languages. For those who have never studied a Romance language before, I'm sure google will be able to help you out.

So, the Ladin reflexive pronouns are:

Weak form

1 sing: me
2 sing: te
3 sing: se
1 plur: se
2 plur: ve
3 plur: se

Strong form

1 sing: me
2 sing: te
3 sing: se
1 plur: nos
2 plur: vo
3 masc. plur: ic
3 fem. plur: eles

-The weak reflexive form always precedes the verb with simple verbs, or before the infinitive with compound verbs.

e.g: Congne me petinèr - I have to comb my hair ( lit: I have to comb myself)

-the strong form is used to highlight the pronoun or in prepositional constructions. it can be followed by enstes (masc.sing) enstessa (fem. sing) enstesc (masc. plur) enstesses (fem. plur).

e.g: la peissa demò per se enstessa - she thinks only about herself.

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-01, 12:23

[flag=]lld[/flag]NOUN-ADJECTIVE AGREEMENT[flag=]lld[/flag]

Fascian is pretty much the same as other Romance languages, that's to say that adjectives and nouns have to agree in gender and number, e.g:

l ciel pien de nigoles ( the sky full of clouds). [ciel(noun) and pien(adj.) are both masculine and singular]
L tous aut (the tall guy) [tous (noun) and aut (adj.) are both masculine and singular]

But there is an important exception to that which is the feminine plural. There are different cases that needs to be studied.

1) The adjective(s) precede(s) the noun.

In this case only the last word (noun) must be in the plural form, even with a series of adjectives.

La veia vaces (the old cow) (la and veia are singular, only vaces is plural)
La tousa forestes (the foreign girls)

(note that the same goes for determinatives like articles, personal pronouns etc etc)

2) The adjective(s) follow(s) the noun

a) If the noun and the adjective form a "conceptual unit", then only the last word takes the plural suffix.

b) if the noun and adjective do not represent a "conceptual unit" (this usually happens when the adjective describes a transitory state or a state caused by external forces and not something intrinsic to the noun), then both noun and adj. take the plural suffix, but not other determinatives like the article.

3) When the adjective is in the predicative form

It agrees in gender and number with the subject to which is refers.

Mia giaves é n muie jentiles ( my grandmas are very gentle).

If the predicative part is made up of more elements, then it works like the above mentioned case (number 2) ).

4) With compound verbs

Usually the past participle of the compound verb agrees in gender and number with the subject, e.g:

eles é jites ja Busan (they [fem.] went to Bolzano).

The same goes when the compound verb is in the passive form and has two past participles:

eles é states litedes (they have been voted)

but if it's followed by an adjective (in the plural form), then the participle doesn't take the plural suffix, only the adjective does.

Mia sores é stata n muie ascortes. (My sisters have been very careful).

Look at number 2) if the compound verb is followed by a series of adjectives and nouns.

melski
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2012-02-17, 1:13
Location: Nantes
Country: FR France (France)

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby melski » 2014-05-21, 10:21

IpseDixit wrote:
melski wrote:[flag=]lld[/flag] La persona che vegn dò peissa che é plu aliegher/da grignèr (?) scrive les respostes in autres lingac che les lingac de les domandes - ence sce é lingac che el/ela ne rajone ben.
(gosh it took me more than one hour to write this sentence in Ladin... IpseDixit feel free to correct me!)


First of all: :<3: :<3: :<3: :<3:

Secondly: it depends in what dialect you intended to write it... I can only show you how it would be in Fascian which is the dialect I'm learning, (what grammar and dictionary did you use btw? [I suppose the Standard Ladin grammar, but the vocabulary looks like a mix of Fascian and Standard]):

La persona che vegn dò peissa che é più deletégol scriver la respostes per etres lengac che i lengac de la domanes - seence che i é lengac che l/la no rejona ben.

Some notes:

-plu is used in Standard Ladin, and other dialects (I think Badiot and Gherdëina for instance)

-aliegher should mean cheerful AFAIK and da grignèr is too strong here IMO (it means that makes someone laugh). The best would be deletégol IMO...

-in Ladin we don't say in a language, we say through a language, so for example it's per talian (in Italian), per franzous (in French), per ladin (in Ladin) and son on...

-and in any case AFAIK in doesn't exist (definitely not in Fascian), in usually translates as te and sometimes en. E.g: te Tèlia (in Italy), te la giejia (in the church), te zità (in the city).

-autres is feminine, etres is masculine and lengaz is masculine.

-in Fascian it's lengaz, not lingaz

-even though is seence che or enceben che, ence se is an Italianism :P

-the gender agreement for the feminine plural nouns is really messed up. By and large (not always), only the last word of the series takes the plural suffix. For example: la persona ascortes.

-for the third sing. and pl. person you always need a pronoun, usually if it's not otherwise expressed you have to use the weak pronouns, that's why I wrote i é lengac: i is the weak 3 pl. person (they), and l/la the third sing. person. (but if I'm not wrong les domanes would be correct in Standard Ladin, I think...)

-rejone is first sing. person, rejona, third sing. person.

For further explanations, have a look at this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=142&t=42938

Here I explain what a weak personal pronoun is and try to better explain the agreement of plural feminine nouns.

But seriously, I'm really really impressed. :D


i'm answering here to keep "la persona below de mi" a game thread and not a ladin lesson, ma grazie mille per le tue correzioni, IpseDixit! Infatti da qualche tempo ti vedo scrivere in ladino e non mi sembra una lingua troppa difficile da capire, poi mi affascinano le lingue romanze minoritarie, è sempre molto interessante vedere come a partire del latino tutte le diverse forme che sono stato create...

Per scrivere questa frase in ladino, ho usato alcune delle tue frasi nel gioco "the person below me" e poi aiutandomi dei diversi dizionari che hai messo nel thread "risorse ladine", ho cercato di paragonarli con il testo "grammatica del ladino standard". Da qui ne sorge la mescolanza tra ladino standard e fascian.

[flag=]lld[/flag] ie penseie che la lingac ladin é dër bel !
(forse ho mescolato diverse varietà qui... ma ho incontrato ladini che mi hanno spiegato che dër voleva dire "molto"... forse non in fascian!)
................Native: French (fr) French
................Fluent: English (en) English , Italian (it) Italian
.........Intermediate: German (de) German, Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Portuguese
.........Conversational: Catalan (ca) Catalan, Spanish (es) Spanish
....................Learning: [flag=Wallisian (East Uvean / faka'uvea)]wls[/flag] Wallisian (topic here)

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-21, 10:37

Buona idea trasferire la conversazione qui. Innanzi tutto ho sbagliato perché la cosa riguardo les domanes nel ladino standard avrebbe dovuta essere al punto sopra. :P

in Fascian:

gé peisse che l lengaz ladin é dassen/n muie/trop belot

A giudicare dall'umlaut sulla e, suppongo che il tuo amico ladino è o della Val Badia o della Val Gardenia. :)

lengac è plurale, lengaz è singolare, e tieni a mente che è maschile, non femminile.
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2014-05-21, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.

melski
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2012-02-17, 1:13
Location: Nantes
Country: FR France (France)

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby melski » 2014-05-21, 10:49

Grazie delle tue correzioni! Ma allora mi viene in mente una domanda: le diverse varietà di Ladino sono intercomprensibili tra di loro o no?
................Native: French (fr) French
................Fluent: English (en) English , Italian (it) Italian
.........Intermediate: German (de) German, Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Portuguese
.........Conversational: Catalan (ca) Catalan, Spanish (es) Spanish
....................Learning: [flag=Wallisian (East Uvean / faka'uvea)]wls[/flag] Wallisian (topic here)

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-21, 10:52

mmm forse questa è una domanda che dovresti chiedere al tuo amico madre lingua... io penso di sì, che siano abbastanza intercomprensibili...

melski
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2012-02-17, 1:13
Location: Nantes
Country: FR France (France)

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby melski » 2014-05-21, 10:58

erano un gruppo di ragazze venite a visitare la mia università, non conosco veramente degli madrelingue ladini.
................Native: French (fr) French
................Fluent: English (en) English , Italian (it) Italian
.........Intermediate: German (de) German, Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Portuguese
.........Conversational: Catalan (ca) Catalan, Spanish (es) Spanish
....................Learning: [flag=Wallisian (East Uvean / faka'uvea)]wls[/flag] Wallisian (topic here)

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-21, 11:08

melski wrote:erano un gruppo di ragazze venute a visitare la mia università, non conosco veramente dei madrelingua ladini.


Capisco, comunque io penso che siano abbastanza intercomprensibili...

melski
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2012-02-17, 1:13
Location: Nantes
Country: FR France (France)

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby melski » 2014-05-21, 21:31

Ciao IpseDixit! Stasera ho avuto una bella discussione sul ladino con un'amica tedesca che ha lavorato nelle valle ladine ed ha imparato la lingua. Era molto interessante conoscere di più anche la storia di questo popolo che, se ho capito bene, è veramente una minoranza dentro l'Italia. Abbiamo in particolare parlato della riforma della lingua ladina (standardizzazione dell'ortografia) per poter salvaguardare la lingua e dare più potere. Era interessantissimo conoscere di più questa cultura, che va anche oltre il solo interesse linguistico. Abbiamo anche provato a fare una piccola conversazione in ladino! (beh, non è che sono bravo... pero mi ha colpito quanto era facile da capire, con il francese e l'italiano).
................Native: French (fr) French
................Fluent: English (en) English , Italian (it) Italian
.........Intermediate: German (de) German, Brazilian Portuguese (pt-br) Portuguese
.........Conversational: Catalan (ca) Catalan, Spanish (es) Spanish
....................Learning: [flag=Wallisian (East Uvean / faka'uvea)]wls[/flag] Wallisian (topic here)

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-06-01, 17:14

[flag=]lld[/flag]INDEFINITE ADJECTIVES AND PRONOUNS[flag=]lld[/flag]

Un, -a (both adj. and pron.) ---> and indefinite person or thing.

Valgun, -gn, -a, -es (only adj.)---> some.

Valgugn, -a, -es (only pron. note that for the masculine there's just one invariable form) ---> some. It's mostly used with plural nouns.

Vèlch un, -a (only pron.)---> same as valgugn but only with singular nouns and only if followed by a partitive.

Zachèi / zeche un, -a (only pron.)---> someone, somebody. In the subordinated sentence of a hypothetical clasue, zachèi often becomes chi.

Vèlch / zeche (both adj. and pron., they're invaribale)---> some, zeche also has a partitive value like de(s) in French

Dotrei (both adj. and pron.)---> it means something in a small quantity (still indefinite though).

Cert, -c, -a, -es (both adj. and pron.)---> very similar to the adj. certain in English, except that it can also be used as a pron. in Ladin.

Pech, pec, pecia, pecia/peces (both adj. and pron.)---> few, sometimes also a bit / a little / a little bit

Mingol / n mingol---> a bit / a little / a little bit, it can be both adj. and pron., if it's an adjective it must be followed by de.

Trop, -es, -a, -es (adj. and, pron.)---> many/much/a lot of.

N muie (adj. and pron.)---> another way to say many/much/a lot of. If it's an adjective it must be followed by de.

N muion---> an intensifier of n muie.

Tant, tenc, tanta, tantes---> so many/ so much, sometimes it can also be used as trop.

Sacotant/jacontant, -c, -a, -es (adj. and pron.)---> a considerable chunk of, if adj. it can be followed by de (not obligatory though).

Autertant, etres tenc, autertanta, autra tantes (adj. and pron.)---> as much / as many (the same quantity as something else)

Massa (adj. and pron, invariable)---> too/too many/too much.

Auter, etres, autra, autres (adj. and pron.)---> other(s), it is usually preceded by the definite article or the partitive when it's in the plural form. Un co l'auter means one another / each other. It also means else if preceded by vèlch, zeche, nia, zachèi (+de), valgugn, neciugn, dut. Note this difference: vèlch da auter---> something different from, vèlch auter---> some more.

Ogne (adj., inv.) ---> every / each

Vigni (adj., inv)---> same as ogne

Ogneun, -a / vigniun, -a (pron.)---> everyone/everybody

Dut, duc, duta, dutes (adj. and pron.)---> all

Chichessìe / chichemai / chi mai (pron. inv.)---> whoever/anyone

Chechessìe / chechemai / che mai (pron. inv.)---> whatever / anything

Chèl che sie, chèi che sie, chèla che sie, chèles che sie---> any, whoever and whatever but used as adj.

Nesciun/negun, -gn, -a, -es (adj.)---> no

Nesciugn / negugn (pron. inv)---> nobody

Nia---> nothing

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-09-23, 10:34

[flag=]lld[/flag]INDICATIVE PRESENT, REGULAR CONJUGATIONS[flag=]lld[/flag]

The Ladin indicative present covers the English simple present, present progressive and in certain cases the present perfect as well (in sentences like "I have lived in London for 5 years"). There are four conjugations in Ladin, but two of them are divided into two sub-categories. Today we're gonna do the first conj. which is divided into Ia and Ib.

The verb which have the infinitive form ending with -èr belong to the first conj.

Ia

ciantèr

AFFIRMATIVE

ciante
Tu te ciantes
El / Ela cianta
Nos cianton
Vo ciantède
Ic / Eles cianta

INTERROGATIVE

(Gé) ciante?
(Tu te) ciànteste?
(El) ciantel?
(Ela) ciàntela?
(Nos) ciàntone?
(Vo) ciantède?
(Ic) ciàntei?
(Eles) ciànteles?

---

Ib

petenèr

AFFIRMATIVE

petenee
Tu te petenees
El / Ela petenea
Nos petenon
Vo petenède
Ic / Eles petenea

INTERROGATIVE

(Gé) petenée?
(Tu te) petenéeste?
(El) petenéel?
(Ela) petenéela?
(Nos) petenone?
(Vo) petenède?
(Ic) petenéei?
(Eles) petenéeles?

---

The verbs ending with -er belong to either the II or III conj. These two conj. have the same suffixes, the only difference is in the stress on the infinitive form and some forms of the past participle.

II

cogner

AFFIRMATIVE

cogne
Tu te cognes
El / Ela cogn
Nos cognon
Vo cognede
Ic / Eles cogn

INTERROGATIVE

(Gé) cogne?
(Tu te) cógneste?
(El) cógnel?
(Ela) cógnela?
(Nos) cognone?
(Vo) cognède?
(Ic) cógnei?
(Eles) cógneles?

---

III

meter

AFFIRMATIVE

mete
Tu te metes
El / Ela met
Nos meton
Vo metede
Ic / Eles met

INTERROGATIVE

(Gé) mete?
(Tu te) mèteste?
(El) mètel?
(Ela) mètela?
(Nos) metone?
(Vo) metède?
(Ic) mètei?
(Eles) mèteles?

---

The verbs with the infinitive ending with -ir belong either to the IVa or IVb.

IVa

dormir

AFFIRMATIVE

dorme
Tu te dormes
El / Ela dorm
Nos dormion
Vo dormide
Ic / Eles dorm

INTERROGATIVE

(Gé) dorme?
(Tu te) dòrmeste?
(El) dòrmel?
(Ela) dòrmela?
(Nos) dormione?
(Vo) dormède?
(Ic) dòrmei?
(Eles) dòrmeles?

IVb

fenir

AFFIRMATIVE

fenesce
Tu te fenesces
El / Ela fenesc
Nos fenion
Vo fenide
Ic / Eles fenesc

INTERROGATIVE

(Gé) fenesce?
(Tu te) fenéscete?
(El) fenéscel?
(Ela) fenéscela?
(Nos) fenione?
(Vo) fenède?
(Ic) fenéscei?
(Eles) fenésceles?

User avatar
atalarikt
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 441
Joined: 2014-10-02, 1:37
Real Name: Taufan Atalarik
Gender: male
Location: Malang Kota
Country: ID Indonesia (Indonesia)

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby atalarikt » 2018-03-22, 23:15

This language looks quite interesting. I wonder if there'll be new lessons.
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
Forever indebted to Robert A. Blust for his contributions to Austronesian linguistics

IpseDixit

Re: (Fascian) Ladin Lessons

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-03-24, 13:25

atalarikt wrote:This language looks quite interesting. I wonder if there'll be new lessons.


Yeah, it's an interesting language which exhibits an array of quite unusual characteristics that are not present in more known Romance languages. I don't plan on adding new lessons though, because I'm not actively learning this language anymore.

There is a grammar of Standard Ladin that you can download for free here (it's the first result), however it's written in Ladin, but if you have some knowledge of other Romance languages, it shouldn't be too difficult to understand it.


Return to “Other Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest