Yiddish

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Viridzen
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Yiddish

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-13, 18:03

די פֿאַרגאַנגענע דיסקוסיע איז געשטאָרבן, האָב איך די אָנגעהױבן. מיילע, װער װיל רעדן װעגן יידיש? עפֿשער װעט קיינע נישט שרײַבן, אָבער איך װעל זײַן אָפּטימיסטיש!

דו מעגסט שרײַבן אין ייִדיש, ענגליש, ליאַדע שפּראַך װאָס איר װילט

The last thread died, so I started this one. Anyway, who wants to talk about Yiddish? Perhaps nobody will write, but I'll be optimistic!

You can write in Yiddish, English, or any language you want.

(Sorry about the punctuation.I can't get it to work!)
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Lazar Taxon
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-03-13, 21:53

My paternal grandparents (who I never met) both spoke Yiddish, in particular the Ukrainian dialect where "שול" is pronounced "shil". My father spoke it in childhood, and while he's not fluent anymore, our household (including my non-Jewish mother) does use an above-average number of Yiddish words. I guess German and Hebrew hold more interest for me now, because they possess developed national cultures, but I always have this nagging urge to improve my Yiddish too.
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Viridzen
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-13, 22:20

By that, do you mean they speak Yiddish somewhat, or they just use words occasionally? Lots of people use some Yiddish-derived words in their English; it annoys me, when looking for things about Yiddish, to just find things about Yiddish-derived English words. It's so hard to find resources (although, I have good books for it already).
I wish I had studied German and Hebrew a little before starting Yiddish, but I still think I'm doing well, regardless. I think that Yiddish has more of a culture tied into the language than German and Hebrew, but I've never looked at modern-day Germany's culture, and I have the impression that Israel is very secular and not really into traditions except as part of religion. It seems to me that Israel tries very hard to be modern and not "held back" by traditions. But, that's just me.
So, does the Ukrainian dialect differ only in the pronunciation and slightly in vocabulary? Or, do certain grammatical aspects differ, and other things, too? I'd expect those first two to differ, certainly. I strongly suggest that you one day learn Yiddish, the dialect in particular. It's a shame your father didn't stay fluent and raise you with it, but you should try to learn it nonetheless.
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Re: Yiddish

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-13, 22:42

Yiddish is pretty easy to understand if you already speak German. I only get tripped up when I hit a Hebraicism like אפֿשר or a Slavicism like פּיסק.

One time I saw a young guy on the bus reading a Yiddish newspaper (פארווערטס) and struck up a conversation with him. I've never formally studied the language, but all I had to do was modify the pronunciation of my German somewhat and he could follow what I was saying without much difficulty. The grammar is pretty close to that of dialectal South German, and I happen to know some Alemannic.
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Lazar Taxon
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-03-14, 1:16

Viridzen wrote:By that, do you mean they speak Yiddish somewhat, or they just use words occasionally?
The latter - we might describe somebody as a makher or a fresser or a shicker or farfintstert, or talk about having seykhl or rakhmones, or call a situation a groyse shande, or jokingly refer to a priest as a galekh. But we don't speak Yiddish conversationally. My dad says that it was the first language he spoke, before he started schooling, but like in many immigrant families, his parents didn't have much interest in maintaining their kids' heritage language skills.
Native: [flag=]en-us[/flag] Good: [flag=]es[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] Okay: [flag=]de[/flag] [flag=]la[/flag] Beginning: [flag=]it[/flag] Interested in: [flag=]he[/flag] [flag=]hi[/flag] [flag=]ru[/flag]

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Viridzen
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-14, 14:09

Lazar Taxon wrote:The latter - we might describe somebody as a makher or a fresser or a shicker or farfintstert, or talk about having seykhl or rakhmones, or call a situation a groyse shande, or jokingly refer to a priest as a galekh. But we don't speak Yiddish conversationally. My dad says that it was the first language he spoke, before he started schooling, but like in many immigrant families, his parents didn't have much interest in maintaining their kids' heritage language skills.

Well, at least it's something. It's more than most people use, it seems. My dictionary doesn't mention anything about galekh being pejorative. Is it? Is there a better term for a preist?
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Lazar Taxon
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-03-14, 18:43

I don't mean that it's pejorative, I mean that it's funny when my mom, who comes from a British Protestant family, refers to a priest that way.
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Viridzen
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-16, 19:13

But is it the official word? I should check Wiktionary...

EDIT: It doesn't say it's pejorative, but Wiktionary isn't always complete with Yiddish: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D7%92%D7%9C%D7%97 I'm still interested to know if it's the official term. I remember my dictionary said goluekh was a Jew whose beard was shaven, or by extension, a heretic Jew, and then it would perhaps be extended from there to refer to priests. The Wiktionary page mentioned that that root also means "buzz cut", so I'm guessing the root means something about shaving hair.
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Re: Yiddish

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-16, 19:34

Viridzen wrote:But is it the official word? I should check Wiktionary...

I've got Weinrich's Modern English-Yiddish Yiddish-English Dictionary which is about as close to "official" as I think you're going to find and the definition he gives for גלח is "minister, esp. Catholic priest". Weinrich doesn't label entries as "pejorative" but he does have abbreviations for "humorous", "ironical", and "contemptuous", none of which are used in this entry. (By contrast, שיקסע is labeled "(often cont[emptuous]").)

And you're correct, the root is גלח when means "shave". The application Catholic priests is a reference to the practice of tonsuring, and the extension to other Christian ministers (although not Orthodox priests!) is pretty straightforward.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Viridzen
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-17, 2:25

linguoboy wrote:I've got Weinrich's Modern English-Yiddish Yiddish-English Dictionary

I do too, that's the one I use. And it's Weinreich. There's a second "e".

I saw that there were no notices for humourous or anything, so I wanted to see if I could find more about it.

linguoboy wrote:And you're correct, the root is גלח when means "shave". The application to Catholic priests is a reference to the practice of tonsuring, and the extension to other Christian ministers (although not Orthodox priests!) is pretty straightforward.


Yay, I'm finally correct... anyway, I thought perhaps their angle was that priests were impious Jews, not that they have shaved faces.
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Re: Yiddish

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-17, 2:53

Viridzen wrote:
linguoboy wrote:And you're correct, the root is גלח when means "shave". The application to Catholic priests is a reference to the practice of tonsuring, and the extension to other Christian ministers (although not Orthodox priests!) is pretty straightforward.

If you look at my profile, you'll see that I haven't actually requested corrections to my English. (Those languages are highlighted in pink, not light green.)

(And you got them wrong anyway: What I actually meant to write was "...the root is גלח which means "shave"." But hey, thanks for trying.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Viridzen
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Re: Yiddish

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-17, 23:55

linguoboy wrote:
Viridzen wrote:
linguoboy wrote:And you're correct, the root is גלח when means "shave". The application to Catholic priests is a reference to the practice of tonsuring, and the extension to other Christian ministers (although not Orthodox priests!) is pretty straightforward.

If you look at my profile, you'll see that I haven't actually requested corrections to my English. (Those languages are highlighted in pink, not light green.)

(And you got them wrong anyway: What I actually meant to write was "...the root is גלח which means "shave"." But hey, thanks for trying.)


I see no colours on your profile... anyway, I don't know what is more obvious for me to make of "the root is גלח when means "shave"". You fucked up, I had to correct you... you do realise that you've been on my "ignoring" list for a few weeks now, right? I won't be answering any of your posts from now on. Just to let you know. Obviously, you don't care, just letting you know not to bother responding...
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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linguoboy
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Re: Yiddish

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-18, 0:38

Viridzen wrote:You fucked up, I had to correct you.

No, you didn't, and in fact it was quite rude of you to do so.

Viridzen wrote:you do realise that you've been on my "ignoring" list for a few weeks now, right?

Actually I had no idea. Why would I?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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mōdgethanc
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Re: Yiddish

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-03-18, 2:20

Viridzen wrote:You fucked up, I had to correct you.
You don't need to correct someone in their native language, especially when it's clearly a case of "damn you, autocorrect".
Viridzen wrote:you do realise that you've been on my "ignoring" list for a few weeks now, right?
You do realize nobody cares, right?


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