Ainu

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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby hindupridemn » 2011-07-31, 23:33

The book "Japan's Minorities: The Illusion of Homogeneity" edited by Michael Weiner is good about all minorities in Japan but didn't have much info into languages in particular per se.

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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby hashi » 2011-08-01, 0:13

hindupridemn wrote:The book "Japan's Minorities: The Illusion of Homogeneity" edited by Michael Weiner is good about all minorities in Japan but didn't have much info into languages in particular per se.


I'm not entirely looking for language stuff. Politics, sociology and pedagogy too.

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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby hindupridemn » 2011-08-01, 2:44

There is also a series of books called "Endangered Peoples of the World" I'm sure the Ainu are mentioned in the book on East Asia. Some scholars have put the Ainu in books and studies of Siberian peoples so look there if you want.

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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby hashi » 2011-08-01, 6:59

hindupridemn wrote:There is also a series of books called "Endangered Peoples of the World" I'm sure the Ainu are mentioned in the book on East Asia. Some scholars have put the Ainu in books and studies of Siberian peoples so look there if you want.


Thanks, I'll look into it. Siberian isn't useful for me (I'm comparing the cases of Māori, Sámi and Ainu). However, thanks all the same.

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Re: Ainu and Inuit (Yupik/Aleut) comparison

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 17:16

Ainu have no similarities to Escimo-Aleut people.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Ainu and Inuit (Yupik/Aleut) comparison

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 17:19

Moreover, the conclusion of genetic relationship can't be based on coincedential lexical itmes. First should be found firm structural similarities. But there are no such similarities between Ainu and Escimo-Aleut languages.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Romaji -> Ainu Katakana Converter

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 18:46

LOL
Kana is absolitely doesn't fit to write in Ainu.

On the harm of kana for Ainu language:
Also should be noted that all Ainu texts which were used as materials of "Itak=an ro" festival or as materials for the Ainu language lesson and also Ainu newspaper "Aynu Times" written mostly in katakana and even somewhere Latin alphabet is used it is always followed by katakana but never opposite way.

On the first sight such an innocence fact is really a very dangerous thing because it negatively influences on Ainu language. The matter is the following: in Ainu language there are syllables of the following structures V, CV, VC, CVC. In Japanese syllables may have only the following structure: CV, CVn, CCV - consonant are the same.
When Ainu words are written in katakana all Ainu CVC syllables become CVCV structures: pirka becomes pirika ピリカ, mukkur becomes mukkuri/mukkuru - ムックリ / ムックル.
But now they sometimes use a special variant of katakana, where signs designating consonants are twice small than the main font:ペッ- pet. However this variant of katakana have been elaborated just nowadays and really they usually use usual katakana and so all Ainu VC syllables become VCV structures, and Ainu CVC syllables become CVCV structures.

If it would change just the phonotactics of Ainu - it would not be so dangerous. But we have to remember that Ainu words written in katakana become absolutely unclear from the morphological point of view. It is impossible to analyse such words, it is impossible to understand the meaning of these words, while when Ainu words are written in Latin alphabet morphemes bounds are absolutely clear and you can somehow understand the meaning of a word if you see of what morphemes it consists.
The following is a very characteristic example: itak=an ro means "let's speak", it consists of three morphemes: verbal root itak - "to speak", personal marker - 1pl., inclusive - =an and particle ro expressing invitation to do something together; when it is written in katakana, for example in the poster of this festival, it is: イタカンロ - it is absolutely evident that when such a way of recording is used the only what can be singled out from this word form is particle ro. And it is absolutely impossible to single out verbal root or personal marker. Also I think that here we also have an influence of Japanese tradition to write clitics connected with the nuclear member.
So now I think it is absolutely evident that if we record Ainu words in katakana it seriously block the analisys of word structure and real, it preservs the understanding of language structure and slowly step by step the real imagination of Ainu language structure disaappeares.
Finally it is a very unconvenient way of recording of Ainu words but the most strange is that Ainu themselves prefer to use katakana to record texts in Ainu.

http://gengo-chan.com/viewtopic.php?id=269
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Report on Contemporary Condition of Ainu language

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:10

http://gengo-chan.com/viewtopic.php?id=269
6. Dangerous Conclusions

Of course 600 people is much better than 15 people of Ethnologue or 5 people of Murasaki. But if we look at percentage we understand that the situation is very pitiful. For example in such ethnicities as Basque or Eskimo speakers are about 60 - 80% of total number. Only such percentage can warrant the maintain and normal existance of language while 3% mean the death of language.
This is not only death of language but also death of culture.

What is culture in our times? What is culture in modern world? What does it mean "culture"? What we mean when we say the word "culture"?
Nowadays when globalization increases when anthropological differences between cultures disappear fast, when almost all cultures use the same technology what can be the basis for identification a person as a member of certain ethnic group? What can be the root the backbone of a certain cultural tradition?
In the case of Ainu we must not look at the anthropological types because of after centuries of intermarriage with Japanese Ainu mostly lost their original type. We must not look at those who perform so called "traditional Ainu rites" or wear Ainu wearing: most of "traditional Ainu rights" really were invented by Japanese in order to attract tourists (for example famous marimo rite or carving of bear figures).
Culture is not things, is not weraing. Culture is a way of thinking, way of behaiviour. And as far as way of thinking and way of behaviour are very well reflected by language so language is the main root of any culture.
According to Whorf if people use a certain language they adopt certain concepts, certain way of world view, certain way of thinking through this language. Language is the key and the backbone of any cultural traditions.
Because of it in the case of Ainu, I think, it is possible to state the following: really those who identify themselves as Ainu, wear Ainu wearing but cannot speak Ainu must not be treated as Ainu, only those who identify themselves as Ainu and can speak Ainu should be treated as Ainu.
So I think that the real number of Ainu is equal to the number of Ainu speakers.

And then: what is the role of Utari or Foundation for Reservation and Promotion of Ainu Culture? I think that now it can be clearly seen by everybody: the main aim of such organizations is to control Ainu culture. These organizations really are just the continuation of Japanese colonializm. The fact that they grant money to some Ainu just approves our conclusion: all colonial power always distinguish a group in any of colonized ethnicity and grant this group in order to manage control over this ethnicity by this group and in order to prevent any disturbance of their policy.

Those who really know language and can really speak it don't need any material support from any foundations or organizations to speak it. Those who can really speak don't need to organize strange festivals in order to speak.

All the efforts to preserve "traditional Ainu culture" such as museums, ethnographical settlings, festivals, and even such as "Iwor" project - a project of a special reservation where Ainu are supposed to live according to so called "traditional Ainu culture" in the wild nature together with animals for Japanese would be able to research them, all these items are just different kinds of theater.
Ainu are a part of Japanese society: Ainu use vending-machines, Ainu buy food in combinience stores, Ainu like karaoke and pachinko. Moreover, we have to remember that sometimes contemporary Ainu know about their own culture much less than Japanese. Finally, it is hardly possible to manage traditional Ainu existance in contemporary Japan cause such a way of life requires a vast space of wild nature, which are obviously absent in contemporary Japan.
And also should be noted that in our times there are no traditional cultures, cause all so called minorities accept the products of Western civilization and develop their languages for they will be able to express all the subject of contemporary world.
So if sphere of Ainu language use is determined as a language of traditional culture only it is just a theater but not a usual use of language. It is not preservation at all. It is death of language and death of culture.

But if there are somebody who really cares about maintain and development of Ainu language and Ainu culture what measures can be recommended? What have to be done?
First we have to know that no one language can exist without a society cause any language is a social structure. So I think only autonomy can save Ainu language as well as any other human language. So if Japanese government really cares about maintain of Ainu language it has to think seriously about Ainu autonomy. This autonomy must not be such a project like "Iwor" or an "ethnographical settling" it should be such an autonomy where Ainu language would be used in normal everyday life: in a railway station, in a shop, in a bar et.c. So I think it would be better to make Ainu refuse their traditional culture and start to manage modern industry for they will beable to get money and an influence on contemporary Japan. Then having got money Ainu would be able to buy lands of their ancestors and it would be "Aynu Mosiri" which is so much spoken about, having got money Ainu would be able to set their own education system where they really will learn Ainu. I think if Japanese government really cares about Ainu it has to grant much more rights to Ainu people, to Ainu communities; also the status of Ainu language has to be changed. Really, I think, there is no need of an independent state but there obviously is a necessity of a wide autonomy inside of Japanese state.
But unfortunately Ainu themselves cannot understand it and also cannot do anything. They are so depraved that they cannot act. If they were Basque they have already got everything. But Ainu are not fighters. Unfortunately since long ago they aren't fighters. Now they cannot act. They misunderstand that if they don't act nobody acts instead of them. They are just like bear who sits in the cage and waits for candies. A bear who forget that he is a bear, that he can easily break the cage. All the contemporary Ainu culture is such a bear in cage.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Ainu and Inuit (Yupik/Aleut) comparison

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:19

Now one more time looked through the original posting. It is freaky delusion. First OP spoke about comparison of Ainu and Yupik then suddenly appeared items from Japanese and Basque. Japanese is not a relative of Yupik as well as Basque. I think that 'twas borrowed from a freak blog.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Ainu Resources

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:27

Ainu-Russian-English dictionary
http://gengo-chan.com/viewtopic.php?id=383
Last edited by Tresi on 2011-12-14, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is the name Nicholas in Ainu ?, with Ainu alphabet

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:31

Sean of the Dead wrote:Ainu uses Katakana. Go to WikiPedia or Omniglot and look it up yourself.

faceplam.jpg
Kana is used in official "Utari Kyokai" oriented materials. Cause it has the only goal: completely japonize Ainu. Latin alphabet is much more convenient for Ainu than kana and is used by linguists.
Last edited by Tresi on 2011-12-13, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: How is the name Nicholas in Ainu ?, with Ainu alphabet

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:32

ILuvEire wrote:Dude, what's the point of these topics? Look up Ainu. Look up katakana. Put two and two together.

Your name would be the symbols "ni-ko-ra-s" (Ainu has -s doesn't it?)

Yes, that's right. "s" exists in Ainu and final s is permitted.
so Nicolas will be Nikoras in Ainu.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Minority language rights in Japan

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:39

All these acts and laws are really nothing but a proforma. No minority languages are permitted in Japan. No language except Japanese is officially permitted.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Conversation in Ainu

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-13, 19:52

Cesare M. wrote:Ok, I think we should end that discussion. Let's actually start the Ainu conversation so I can practice the language:

ウウェランカラプ  アン ナー。 イランカラプテー。 ヘマンタ ネプキ ア・キ コロ アナン? 


Utar he!

Aynu itak a-nuye kus wen sisam siros a-eiwanke somo ki yakka pirka na. Sisam siros a-eiwanke yakka Aynu itak katu anak sonno a-erampewtek ruwe ne na. Tap ne kus Ratin siros eiwanke=an yakka pirka ruwe ne kus.

Not to use kana to write down Ainu language. Use practical latin aplphabet:

a c e h i k m n o p r s t u w y '

Ainu has V, CV, VC, CVC syllables, kana only can harm the understanding of structure of Ainu languge.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Ainu Resources

Postby Karavinka » 2011-12-14, 6:19

Tresi wrote:Ainu-Russian-English dictinoary
http://gengo-chan.com/viewtopic.php?id=383


Hi Tresi, and welcome to Unilang Ainu forum.

To be honest, this forum is dormant. I started out by translating an Ainu course from Japanese to English (still can be seen on the main website) and I got a handful of people showing initial interest, but over time, it died out. I got this forum for Ainu when there were at least 5 or 6 people claiming interest, but it became inactive since then. Shame on me, I myself forgot much of Ainu that I once learned...

Still, I'm glad to see another person interested in this language. And you definitely seem to be much more advanced than anyone else who had ever been on this forum! If you'd like to share how you did it, I would be more than delighted to hear...
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Re: Ainu and Inuit (Yupik/Aleut) comparison

Postby Chekhov » 2011-12-14, 6:29

He isn't an active user anymore but when he was, he liked to compare Inuit with other Eurasian languages. Of course there is nothing systematic about his method, so it's completely unscientific.

Also remember, you can edit your posts so you don't need to post three times in a row. Thanks! :)
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Re: Ainu and Inuit (Yupik/Aleut) comparison

Postby Tresi » 2011-12-14, 10:51

He may gone, but this theme is quite important and chracterisc. More isolated a laguage is the more freak theory are built around it.
係数で始まれば科学なり、係数で終われば簿記なり。

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Re: Corrections in Ainu for Beginners

Postby Ciarán12 » 2011-12-31, 16:45

Lesson 5

クナヌ Ku=namu My face

should be:

クナヌ Ku=nanu My face

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Re: Romaji -> Ainu Katakana Converter

Postby Eginhard » 2012-01-23, 11:22

meidei wrote:PS. Speaking about IMEs, I think it's easy to develop a conversion machine for iBus. I think it uses python.


Indeed it looks like it wouldn't be too hard to do for iBus, but I don't use Linux and have absolutely no experience with it. If I find some time in the future I will once again look into creating an IME for Windows.

@Tresi: Yes, Katakana are not well-suited for writing Ainu. But seeing that everyone uses them, I believe it's important to provide tools that remove some of the deficits and for example easily allow to type the word-final small Katakana and this way mark the correct pronunciation.
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an ainuitak beginner asks for help

Postby imrenjie » 2012-05-10, 5:26

as an beginner in learning ainuitak,i wish to know some basic vocabulary,like names of seasons(spring、summer、autumn & winter)or directions(north、south、west、east、upward、etc). can anyone help me?

with sincere thanks in advance!


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