Ainu

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Steisi
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Postby Steisi » 2008-06-06, 6:25

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En usko humalaan.

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unzum
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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby unzum » 2008-08-03, 13:15

Hey noir I just want to say thank you for the Ainu lessons. It clearly took a lot of time and effort to translate all of it and I think the html version of the course is fantastic!
I'm not actually studying Ainu right now, it's a language that I may consider in the future. I'm more interested in Okinawan, as I like hot weather better than snow, and I've been considering following your example and translating an Okinawan course into English (if I could find a good enough one!).

But my point is, I think it's great that we now have a fantastic course for such an uncommon language available in English. All thanks to you! *bows down*
Thank you!
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby Karavinka » 2008-08-08, 20:01

unzum wrote:Hey noir I just want to say thank you for the Ainu lessons. It clearly took a lot of time and effort to translate all of it and I think the html version of the course is fantastic!
I'm not actually studying Ainu right now, it's a language that I may consider in the future. I'm more interested in Okinawan, as I like hot weather better than snow, and I've been considering following your example and translating an Okinawan course into English (if I could find a good enough one!).

But my point is, I think it's great that we now have a fantastic course for such an uncommon language available in English. All thanks to you! *bows down*
Thank you!


イランカラプテ!ハイサイ!

Thanks for even your slightest attention! :D

I did search for some Okinawan stuff in Japanese but couldn't find anything. That was a year ago, maybe there is more now...
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Nero

Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby Nero » 2008-08-09, 0:04

I myself might start learning Ainu one day too, whenever I get a free minute from the Lingua Romanorum, so I also thank your Noir! These are indeed good lessons 8)

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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby Pauro » 2008-08-21, 17:47

Hello. Thanks for fascinating Ainu lessons! Very well done :D

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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby eskandar » 2008-09-02, 1:29

Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby Karavinka » 2008-09-02, 2:38

eskandar wrote:Some Ainu links I came across today:

Rev. John Batchelor’s “Ainu-English-Japanese Dictionary (including a grammar of the Ainu language)”, Tokyo 1905 [PDF, written in both Kana and Roman orthography]

The Lord's Prayer in Ainu


If you want to use Batchelor's grammar and dictionary, just keep in mind that it was the first descriptive grammar and contains a lot of errors found by the later researchers. I wouldn't recommend it.
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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby unzum » 2008-09-03, 16:47

Heyup noir!

Can you have a word with the person in charge of converting the Ainu course into HTML? I think the course description needs a bit of changing, it currently reads:
A simple 5-lesson Ainu Course for absolute beginners, comes with exercises and solutions.

It's a bit misleading as it is now. Maybe you could change it to include something about how it's a year-long course, 52 lessons, a complete beginner's course, etc etc.
Also, maybe it would be a good idea to have links to the Sapporo lessons in the unilang course as well, so that people could find the audio for the lessons easily.

Noir, since you can read Japanese, there's a really good Ainu textbook you can get from Tokyo University of Foreign Studies. The textbooks are not for sale, the university produces them for their own students.
Give the university an e-mail, explaining that you're an individual student with an interest in Ainu, and they may send you a complimentary copy of their Ainu textbook. Here's the details for the book:
アイヌ語研修テキスト (Ainu Language Training Textbook) by MURASAKI, K., 1998 (no. A725)
You need to give them a valid postal address, as they will send the textbook to you by sea mail (which will take ages). There are more details on the link.

There are some pdf textbooks to go along with the STV lessons here. I'm not sure how they match up though.

Also, I'm not sure whether this would be possible but do you think STV would give us permission to use their recordings on the English translated course? I think it would be useful to have the accompanying audio for each sentence & vocab item. If we cut up the STV audio we could use just the Ainu audio in the lessons. I'm not sure whether STV would agree to this, as it would mean taking out the Japanese parts, but as I'm sure none of us have a native Ainu speaker to record it seems like the only way to include audio in the course.

I've had a recent look for Okinawan materials but there really doesn't seem to be anything substantial enough. The best I could find was うちなーぐちNOW and うちなーぐち講座, both podcasts teaching Okinawan phrases. I'm going to e-mail some Okinawan radio/TV companies & bother them about making an Okinawan course like the STV Ainu ones. :D

I'm also in the middle of adding an Ainu page to my website, I'll give you a post when it's done.
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby Karavinka » 2008-09-03, 18:52

unzum wrote:It's a bit misleading as it is now. Maybe you could change it to include something about how it's a year-long course, 52 lessons, a complete beginner's course, etc etc.
Also, maybe it would be a good idea to have links to the Sapporo lessons in the unilang course as well, so that people could find the audio for the lessons easily.


Probably. The HTML version was prepared by Abavagada, who now retired from the administrative position so I don't know who may be in charge of it. But I'll try to contact someone. The original STV lesson links were included on the draft copy on this thread, but I removed on the basis that those who can understand Japanese wouldn't bother with this at all and vice versa. Moreover, it would be difficult for non-Japanese speaker to tell Ainu parts from the Japanese parts based on what they hear.

Noir, since you can read Japanese, there's a really good Ainu textbook you can get from Tokyo University of Foreign Studies. The textbooks are not for sale, the university produces them for their own students.
Give the university an e-mail, explaining that you're an individual student with an interest in Ainu, and they may send you a complimentary copy of their Ainu textbook. Here's the details for the book:
アイヌ語研修テキスト (Ainu Language Training Textbook) by MURASAKI, K., 1998 (no. A725)
You need to give them a valid postal address, as they will send the textbook to you by sea mail (which will take ages). There are more details on the link.


I knew of TUFS but haven't contacted them yet. Maybe I should consider it. They used to have some (not all) pdfs online and they are generally of good quality. (Well, I don't have Ainu though.)

There are some pdf textbooks to go along with the STV lessons here. I'm not sure how they match up though.


They match perfectly, and it is in fact easier to use than the online version of the texts because the pdf versions do show Ainu small-case Katakana. If you hear "text" references during the broadcast, what they mean is this pdf (or its printed version).

Also, I'm not sure whether this would be possible but do you think STV would give us permission to use their recordings on the English translated course? I think it would be useful to have the accompanying audio for each sentence & vocab item. If we cut up the STV audio we could use just the Ainu audio in the lessons. I'm not sure whether STV would agree to this, as it would mean taking out the Japanese parts, but as I'm sure none of us have a native Ainu speaker to record it seems like the only way to include audio in the course.


I'm not entirely sure about this. Even if I could get the permission, I don't have the technical expertise to chop the Ainu parts from the lesson. We would need someone with both Japanese proficiency and technical skills for this.

I've had a recent look for Okinawan materials but there really doesn't seem to be anything substantial enough. The best I could find was うちなーぐちNOW and うちなーぐち講座, both podcasts teaching Okinawan phrases. I'm going to e-mail some Okinawan radio/TV companies & bother them about making an Okinawan course like the STV Ainu ones. :D


These look amazing. Well, unfortunately I don't happen to be an auditory learner but I might give it a shot.

I'm also in the middle of adding an Ainu page to my website, I'll give you a post when it's done.


Lol I checked your website and you really seem to have spent considerable time and energy on google. ;)
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Re: Sapporo TV Ainu lessons

Postby unzum » 2008-09-08, 12:58

I'm not entirely sure about this. Even if I could get the permission, I don't have the technical expertise to chop the Ainu parts from the lesson. We would need someone with both Japanese proficiency and technical skills for this.


I didn't say before but I would be willing to do this. It's fairly easy to hear which parts are Ainu and which are Japanese. I've got audacity and I'm sure I could figure out how to use it to chop up the audio, there are plenty of tutorials on the internet. I can't say I'd be very fast at it as I'll be entering university soon, but I'm willing to help out any way I can.
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Intermediate Ainu 03 Greetings (3)

Postby unzum » 2008-10-05, 9:36

Okay, me and noir have been talking and I'm going to be helping translate the intermediate lessons from now on. :D Good luck everyone!


Sapporo TV Ainu Radio Lessons
STVアイヌ語ラジオ講座

Broadcast on April 20th 2003

Lesson 3: Greetings (3) Expressions of gratitude

Text

ワッカ  エンコレ      
wakka  en=kore
Give me some water.

エー
e
Yes (okay)

イヤイライケレー
i-yay-rayke-re
Thanks.

フンペリカ   ウナペ  カシコセ(カシ ク・オセ)
humpe-rika   unarpe   kasikose(kasi ku=os)
Auntie, I carried the whale fat here.

フーン  ク・マッカク  エ・エヒ  ピノ   イモカ  ト
hun   ku=mat-karku   e=ekhi   pis-no  imoka   toska

イカオシケ  クスケライポ   フンペリカ   ケ(ク・エ)  エアカイ.
ika-o-sike  kusu keraypo  humpe-rika  ke(ku=e)   e-askay

ヒオーイオイ
hi-oy-oy

My, oh my. My niece, every time you come you bring a whole pile of presents for me. Thanks to you I can eat some whale fat. Thank you.

Vocabulary

ワッカ [Water]
ウナペ [Aunt (as a general term for women, or for family members)]
カシコセ [To bring a souvenir or present]
マッカク [Niece]
[To come]
イモカ [Souvenir, present]
イカオシケ [To carry (on your back or shoulder)]
ケライポ [Thanks to you]
エアカイ [To be able to, can]
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Intermediate Ainu 04 Greetings (4)

Postby unzum » 2008-10-05, 9:54

Sapporo TV Ainu Radio Lessons
STVアイヌ語ラジオ講座

Broadcast on April 27th 2003

Lessons 4: Greetings (4) Goodbyes

Text

スィ  ウヌカ  アン  ロー
suy  u-nukar   an   ro
Let's meet again.

サランパ
sarampa
Goodbye (when leaving the house)

サランパキ・アン  ナー
sarampa-ki=an   na
Goodbye, I'm leaving.

ヤイトゥパレノ  パイェ  ヤン
yaitupare-no   paye   yan
Please go and take care (said to the people leaving)

ヤイトゥパレノ  ア
yaitupare-no   arpa
Go and take care (more casual version of above)

Vocabulary

ヌカ [To see, to be visible]
ヤイトゥパレ [To take care, be careful]
パイェ [To go, leave]
パ [To go, depart, leave]
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Intermediate Ainu 05 Introducing yourself (1)

Postby unzum » 2008-10-10, 0:07

Sapporo TV Ainu Radio Lessons
STVアイヌ語ラジオ講座

Broadcast on May 5th 2003

Lesson 5: Introducing yourself (1) Names

Text

ア・レヘ マ ア・イェ?
a=rehe mak a=ye?
What's your name? (polite)

エ・レヘ マ ア・イェ?
e=rehe mak a=ye?
What's your name? (casual)

ク・レヘ アナネ _____ ネ
ku=rehe anakne ______ ne
My name is _____.

カニ(ク・アニ) アナネ _____ ク・ネ
kani (ku=ani) anakne ______ ku=ne
I'm _____.

Vocabulary

レヘ – rehe - Name
– mak - What, how
カニ – kani - I
アナネ – anakne - Topic marker (as for...)
ネ – ne - Copula (To be)
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Intermediate Ainu 06 Introducing yourself (2)

Postby unzum » 2008-10-12, 17:10

Here's lesson 6 of Intermediate Ainu. I'd like to thank noir for helping me out loads with the grammar section of this lesson, and also for proofreading this and previous lessons. イヤイライケレー!

Sapporo TV Ainu Radio Lessons
STVアイヌ語ラジオ講座

Broadcast on May 11th 2003

Lesson 6: Introducing yourself (2) Hometowns

Text

ア・コタヌフ マ ア・イェ?
a=kotanuhu mak a=ye?
What's your hometown? (polite)

エ・コタヌフ マ ア・イェ?
e=kotanuhu mak a=ye?
What's your hometown? (casual)

ク・コタヌフ ニプタイ セコ ア・イェ
ku=kotanuhu NIPUTAY sekor a=ye
My hometown is NIPUTAY.

Grammar

The a= of a=ye is a non-specific person prefix and when used here literally means 'calls itself such'.

1st person single: ku=ye - 'To call myself'
1st person plural: ci=ye - 'To call ourselves'
2nd person single: e=ye - 'To call yourself'
2nd person plural: eci=ye - 'To call yourselves'
3rd person single & plural: ye - 'To call himself/herself/themselves'
Nonspecific single & plural: a=ye - 'To call itself/themselves'

The list above is only used with transitive verbs. i.e. verbs that take an object (example: koyki - to bother, hunt something). Intransitive verbs that do not take a direct object use a slightly different set of prefixes.

Another point is that the uninflected form of 'hometown' is actually kotan. Kotanuhu is the genitive form and indicates that 'hometown' belongs to someone: 'hometown-of'. There is more information about genitives in lessons 27 & 28 of Ainu for Beginners.

A more literal translation of the last dialogue sentence would read as:
ク・コタヌフ ニプタイ セコ ア・イェ
ku=kotanuhu NIPUTAY sekor a=ye
I-village-of NIPUTAY such it-calls-itself.

Vocabulary

コタん - kotan - Village, hometown, birthplace
- mak - What
イェ - ye - To be called, to say, speak
セコ - sekor - Quotation particle used with speech and thoughts.
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Re: Aynu Itak

Postby unzum » 2008-10-14, 21:29

Hi, just thought I'd mention this article I found online:

Peter K. Austin's top 10 endangered languages

10 endangered languages are basically picked out by this linguist as being especially interesting or unique. Ainu is number 3 on the list.
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Re: Aynu Itak

Postby Karavinka » 2008-10-15, 2:35

unzum wrote:Hi, just thought I'd mention this article I found online:

Peter K. Austin's top 10 endangered languages

10 endangered languages are basically picked out by this linguist as being especially interesting or unique. Ainu is number 3 on the list.


Very cool.. though I am slightly offended that Ainu is only the third. :D

I at least "heard of" Thao, Kusunda and Ket. Once I spent a few days on google and library searching for language isolates, during which I kind of stumbled on Formosan as well. ;) I speak a language isolate as my native language, and it seems like an idea to get in touch with the other kids at the orphanage. ;)
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Re: Aynu Itak

Postby eskandar » 2008-10-15, 4:11

noir wrote:I speak a language isolate as my native language, and it seems like an idea to get in touch with the other kids at the orphanage. ;)


So having studied Japanese and Ainu, you're still not convinced that either may be descended from the same proto-source as your mother tongue? :hmm:
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Aynu Itak

Postby Karavinka » 2008-10-15, 4:18

eskandar wrote:
noir wrote:I speak a language isolate as my native language, and it seems like an idea to get in touch with the other kids at the orphanage. ;)


So having studied Japanese and Ainu, you're still not convinced that either may be descended from the same proto-source as your mother tongue? :hmm:


Hell no. My "gut feeling" says there's something suspicious, maybe a substratum or even a proto-language, but I don't trust my guts. ;)
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Intermediate Lesson 07 Introducing yourself (3)

Postby unzum » 2008-10-15, 10:21

Sapporo TV Ainu Radio Lessons
STVアイヌ語ラジオ講座

Broadcast on May 18th 2003

Lesson 7: Introducing yourself (3) Parents

Text

ア・オナハ レヘ マ ア・イェ?
a=onaha rehe mak a=ye?
What's your father's name? (polite)

エ・オナハ レヘ マ ア・イエ?
e=onaha rehe mak a=ye?
What's your father's name? (casual)

コナハ(ク・オナハ) レヘ アナネ 。。。 ネ
konaha (ku=onaha) rehe anakne _____ ne
My father's name is ____

ア・ウヌフ レヘ マ ア・イェ?
a=unuhu rehe mak a=ye?
What's your mother's name? (polite)

エ・ウヌフ レヘ マ ア・イェ?
e=unuhu rehe mak a=ye?
What's your mother's name? (casual)

クヌフ(ク・ウヌフ) レヘ アナネ 。。。 ネ
kunuhu (ku=unuhu) rehe anakne _____ ne
My mother's name is _____

Grammar

Family names:
ク・コ エカシ – ku=kor ekasi – My grandfather
ク・コ フチ – ku=kor huchi – My grandmother
ク・コ ユピ – ku=kor yupi – My elder brother
ク・コ サポ – ku=kor sapo – My older sister

For talking about other people's family you would say it like this:
エ・コ エカシ – e=kor ekasi – Your grandfather

You will notice two different ways of describing possession ('my_'). Pronominal prefix + kor (e.g. ku=kor) is used for alienable possessions, things that can be separated from its owner. For inalienable possessions, such as an attribute or body part, the pronominal prefix (e.g. ku=) is used on its own. Family members are normally considered alienable but mother & father can be said using either way.
Lesson 5 & 6 of Ainu for Beginners also covers this.

Vocabulary

オナハ – onaha - Father
ウヌフ – unuhu - Mother
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons

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Corrections in Ainu for Beginners

Postby unzum » 2008-10-16, 0:39

I'm working my way through the Ainu course now so I've made this thread to note any errors I find. If someone could correct the course I'd be eternally grateful.

Lesson 2 - exercises
2.) Snow falls a lot this year.
2) タント ウパ ポロ tanto upas poro

The English should be something like:
There's a lot of snow today.

Lesson 3 - sentences
Ukuran kamuyhum as.

Should be:
Ukran kamuyhum as.

Lesson 3 - pronunciation
コマ Koman Falling leaf

Should be:
Komam

Lesson 6
For the vocabulary table in the grammar section it reads:
クコ エカ ku=kor ekasi My grandfather

It should be:
エカシ
with no subscript on the last letter.
Learning: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]yue.Hant[/flag] (hiatus)
Some day: [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]km[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]ms[/flag] [flag]bn[/flag]
Abandoned: [flag]fr[/flag]
Translations: Balinese lessons & Sundanese lessons


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