Armenian (Հայերեն)

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armatura
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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby armatura » 2008-10-10, 14:20

Turco wrote:Hi... I'm from Mexico, and I'm very interested about Turkish culture. But since a heard the song "Qele Qele" in Eurovision, I started to be interested by the armenian culture, so I researched about relations between Armenia and the other countries, and I found things about Armenia and Azerbaiyan, that there is a lot of tension between these two countries.
But I'm more interested about the relations between Armenia and Turkey, because I know a little about their "black history" arround 1920. I want to know what are the relations between armenians and turks, if there is some kind of "bad feelings" between these two countries...

Thanks, and sorry for my English... I want to say more things but I don't know how...


I'll give you only some essential neutral information, if you want to create own point of view you better read well-edited encyclopedias. Yes, there is a tension between Turkey and Armenia mainly because of large massacres of Armenians organized by Turkish government (first - sultan, then - Young Turks and their followers) in Ottoman Empire in late 19th and early 20th centuries. These events has been recognized as Armenian Genocide by 21 countries and many international organizations (you can view the list here) but never by Turkish government. Turkey (as a brother-country with the same nation and religion) also officially supports Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh issues against Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenian governments.

But tension doesn't prevent both countries to be engaged in business relations. Although the border is officially closed, there's a daily air flight Yerevan-Istanbul-Yerevan, a large segment of Armenian market is presented by products made in (or brought through) Turkey, there has been some sport meetings between Turkish and Armenian teams (the last soccer match in Yerevan was attended by Turkish prime minister) and so on. There seem to be some tendency to activate the relations between 2 countries (to open the border?) in relation with the Georgia-South Ossetia-Russia confrontational events. We need a way out of energetic/economic blockade and Turkey has to have good relations with neighbors to enter the European Union.

armatura
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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby armatura » 2008-10-10, 14:24

As for religion in Armenia:

The predominant religion in Armenia is Christianity. The roots of the Armenian Church go back to the first century. According to tradition, the Armenian Church was founded by two of Jesus' twelve apostles -- Thaddaeus and Bartholomew -- who preached Christianity in Armenia between 40-60 AD. Because of these two founding apostles, the official name of the Armenian Church is Armenian Apostolic Church. Armenia was the first nation to adopt Christianity as a state religion, in 301. Over 93% of Armenian Christians belong to the Armenian Apostolic Church, a form of Oriental (Non-Chalcedonian) Orthodoxy, which is a very ritualistic, conservative church, roughly comparable to the Coptic and Syriac churches.

read more in Wikipedia

armatura
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Re: Translations

Postby armatura » 2008-10-12, 9:50

"The Princess of Armenia" (or "The Armenian Princess") - Հայոց արքայադուստր
"To the Princess of Armenia" (or "To the Armenian Princess") - Հայոց արքայադստերը

I would be really grateful for translating these few words for me :)

Seems to be love issue :mrgreen:

armatura
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Re: un ange passe

Postby armatura » 2008-10-12, 10:08

Actually, I've been living in Moscow for 2 years and but I've never heard Russians saying "an armenian just died" for awkward silence moments. :para:
As for Eastern Armenians, we often use Russian "и тишина..." (and there was silence...) phrase from popular Soviet movie "The Elusive Revengers" ("Неуловимые мстители") by Edmond Keosayan

- Я ему сам поначалу не поверил, - Савелий судорожно сжал мочалку, вспоминая
ночное приключение. - А глянул в стороны: и - и-и, гроб с покойничком летает над
крестами, а вдоль дороги мертвые с косами стоят и - тишина... - Савелий развел руками от
невозможности это объяснить, а тем более пережить.

wikisource

armatura
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Re: The Owl and the -cat - to be translated into Armenian

Postby armatura » 2008-10-12, 12:16

Well, I can't keep the poetic rhyme ideally, but the translation will be something like this

Բուն և փիսոն

I

Բուն և Փիսոն ելան ծով
Մի սիրուն դեղնականաչ նավով,
Վերցրին քիչ մեղր ու լիքը փող
Փաթաթված հինգ ֆունտանոց թղթադրամով:
Բուն նայեց երկնքին` լի աստղերով,
Ու երգեց` նվագակցելով փոքրիկ կիթառով,
- Օ˜ սքանչելի Փիսո, օ˜ իմ սիրած Փիսո,
Ինչ հիասքանչ Փիսո ես դու,
Դու,
Դու´
Ի՞նչ հիասքանչ Փիսո´ ես դու:

II

Փիսոն ասաց Բուին, - Ով նրբագեղ դու թռչու´ն
Որքան քա´ղցր ես երգում,
Եկ ամուսնանա´նք, մենք արդեն շա´տ ենք ուշացնում`
Բայց ի՞նչպես լուծենք հարցը մատանու:
Մի տարի ու մի օր շարունակ լողացին հեռու
Դեպի երկիրը, որտեղ ղեյլանի ծառն է աճում
Ու որտեղ Խոզուկն է կանգնած անտառում
Ոսկյա օղը քթանցքում,
Քթանցքում,
Քթանցքում,
Ոսկյա օղը քթանցքում:

III

-Թանկագին Խոզ, մի շիլլինգով օղդ կծախե՞ս
Խոզն ասաց - Իհա´րկե կծախեմ:
Նրանք վերցրին օղը և մուսնացան հաջորդ օրը`
Հյուր դառնալով հնդկահավին, որն ապրում է բլրի գագաթին:
Կերան աղացած մսով խորտիկներ, սերկևիլի շերտիկներ,
Պատառաքաղով որն ուներ հատուկ ցցվածքներ,
Ու ձեռք-ձեռքի տված, ավազի եզրին,
Պարեցին նրանք լուսնի շողերին,
Լուսնի շողերին,
Լուսնի շողերին,
Պարեցին նրանք լուսնի շողերին:

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Vergilius
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Re: Translations

Postby Vergilius » 2008-10-14, 9:26

armatura wrote:Seems to be love issue :mrgreen:

Indeed :mrgreen:
Thanks a lot! :)
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Hypocrisy
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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby Hypocrisy » 2008-10-25, 20:02

Could anybody here enlighten me please, why are european countries much into so-called Armenian genocide and contraventions of the human rights in Turkey instead of having a look at the internal problems of the European Union such as in the following examples.

Esquimaus have been assimilated since Denmark and U.S.A captured Greenland and forced the public to immigrate from their homeland to uninhabitable areas at the other parts of Greenland. This is not comprehensible at all.

The most crowded minority in Germany about 2 millions is of Turkish people. But they don't have rights to be educated in Turkish in the middle of European democracy. Nobody thinks that it is worth enacting the education in other languages as well at local schools.

I'm not even mentioning the flaws on human rights in the eastern block of the European Union.

On the other hand, i think Turkey's application will have gone through by the time i get to the other world.

Besides, what about the selling rate of guns increasing steadily in scandinavian countries? Every one liter of blood flowing in the middle-east makes them richer and richer, right?

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby kalemiye » 2008-10-27, 17:15

Hypocrisy wrote:Could anybody here enlighten me please, why are european countries much into so-called Armenian genocide and contraventions of the human rights in Turkey instead of having a look at the internal problems of the European Union such as in the following examples.


Well, most people in Europe don't know what the Armenian genocide is, and don't really care about something that happened almost 1 century ago; nevertheless, there are historical reasons for this that start in the Late Ottoman Empire. Really long to explain, but there are plenty of books about it you can read about the late Ottoman period and the Young Turks regime; read them and you'll have an idea about it.

Anyways, it is Turkey wanting to join the E.U., so it has to meet its standards, not the other way around.

Esquimaus have been assimilated since Denmark and U.S.A captured Greenland and forced the public to immigrate from their homeland to uninhabitable areas at the other parts of Greenland. This is not comprehensible at all.


This is not in the media, that is why people cannot even have an opinion about this.

The most crowded minority in Germany about 2 millions is of Turkish people. But they don't have rights to be educated in Turkish in the middle of European democracy. Nobody thinks that it is worth enacting the education in other languages as well at local schools.


They don't because most of them are not even German nationals. You can only earn German nationality if you have German blood. I am sorry to say the Turks living there usually don't have any. Besides that, they immigrated to the country recently, so instead of trying to live in "Küçük Türkiye",they should try to adapt, for God's sake. I mean, if they really need to do everything in Turkish, buy in Turkish shops, watch Turkish tv, etc, I don't know what they are doing in Germany.

Anyways, instead of trying to lecture anybody with this, you should wonder why the Kurds, although being supportive to the creation of the Republic, have no right to express themselves in their language or tu have schools in Kurdish (don't get me started with "there are some"). It would be equally interesting to know why the Turkish government gave funds to build sunni mosques in places were the Alevis and other heterodox islamic peoples live.

I'm not even mentioning the flaws on human rights in the eastern block of the European Union.


And we thank your for that.

On the other hand, i think Turkey's application will have gone through by the time i get to the other world.


Whenever I meet certain kind of Turks here I have to go through all this all over again. If you knew some other European capital (and you don't even have to go for the big ones) in Europe and came here to Ankara, you would perfectly understand why you are not able to join.

1 - The whole concept of competent railway communications is foreign to the country.
2 - Public transportations within cities like Ankara and Istanbul is simply non-functional. Given that it is crap, the dolmus system exists as a parallel public transportation. Ankara's metro is a joke.
3 - Roads are another big issue.
4 - Eastern Turkey is like the Stone Age with vans.
5 - Ridicolous ultra-nationalism.
6 - And a huge etc.

Probably one day Turkey'll meet the standards to join. But don't fool yourselves, you are not even near; even leaving the Kurdish/Armenian issue aside.

Besides, what about the selling rate of guns increasing steadily in scandinavian countries? Every one liter of blood flowing in the middle-east makes them richer and richer, right?


Yes, it is exactly that. Same for those places in Eastern Anatolia in which they fire Ak47 everytime somebody gets married. By the way, it is easier to find a place to buy a gun in Ankara than in Madrid.
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Hypocrisy
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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby Hypocrisy » 2008-10-27, 19:55

Well, most people in Europe don't know what the Armenian genocide is, and don't really care about something that happened almost 1 century ago; nevertheless, there are historical reasons for this that start in the Late Ottoman Empire. Really long to explain, but there are plenty of books about it you can read about the late Ottoman period and the Young Turks regime; read them and you'll have an idea about it.

Anyways, it is Turkey wanting to join the E.U., so it has to meet its standards, not the other way around.


Thanks for your sincere enlightment, dear but i was just being sarcastic within my treatment. I know almost all about so-called Armenian genocide and those fake reasons. I know what it was invented for...

This is not in the media, that is why people cannot even have an opinion about this.


This is not in the media because it is not wanted to show up on newspapers and in the news. This is the way it works in Europe. Oh look what it reminds me of, EU doesn't want to lose blood any more and try to make new victims out of EU borders. Religion must be a nice target to reach the purpose through a short way. They may benefit "Christianity-Islamism" debate easily. EU is a formation based on christianity admittedly. May it be an occasion not to show the problems in the global media and to make a debate between two religions? What do you think about it?

They don't because most of them are not even German nationals. You can only earn German nationality if you have German blood. I am sorry to say the Turks living there usually don't have any. Besides that, they immigrated to the country recently, so instead of trying to live in "Küçük Türkiye",they should try to adapt, for God's sake. I mean, if they really need to do everything in Turkish, buy in Turkish shops, watch Turkish tv, etc, I don't know what they are doing in Germany.

Anyways, instead of trying to lecture anybody with this, you should wonder why the Kurds, although being supportive to the creation of the Republic, have no right to express themselves in their language or tu have schools in Kurdish (don't get me started with "there are some"). It would be equally interesting to know why the Turkish government gave funds to build sunni mosques in places were the Alevis and other heterodox islamic peoples live.


According to your sayings, they have to leave the Turkish tradition behind, even their native language if they want to live in a developed european country instead of "Küçük Türkiye" and to adapt German living style. They didn't sign any agreement like "You can't be educated in your own language" in order to live there. If it has to be like that, where is freedom? Come on, please tell me. How long they can manage to disregard a minority counted with millions?

Furthermore, stop talking about Kurds' rights in Turkey. Kurds are not a minority here. Turkish nation contains people from different origins such as Kurds, Laz people, Circassians, Abkhasians and so on. Consequently, they have a common language, it is TURKİSH. Nobody keeps them away from their own languages. They can speak it illimitably at home. But Turkish is defined as the formal language in constitution

I agree with you at that point. Turkish government has senseless policies like erecting a mosque in a place full of Christians. I loathe them due to their policies.

And we thank your for that.


You are welcome.

Whenever I meet certain kind of Turks here I have to go through all this all over again. If you knew some other European capital (and you don't even have to go for the big ones) in Europe and came here to Ankara, you would perfectly understand why you are not able to join.

1 - The whole concept of competent railway communications is foreign to the country.
2 - Public transportations within cities like Ankara and Istanbul is simply non-functional. Given that it is crap, the dolmus system exists as a parallel public transportation. Ankara's metro is a joke.
3 - Roads are another big issue.
4 - Eastern Turkey is like the Stone Age with vans.
5 - Ridicolous ultra-nationalism.
6 - And a huge etc.

Probably one day Turkey'll meet the standards to join. But don't fool yourselves, you are not even near; even leaving the Kurdish/Armenian issue aside.


I definitely do not support the contrast of your thoughts at this topic. The fact that we are across the ocean and we have a lot of steps ahead to catch the train. I'm sharing the same opinion with you. We are not even in development process.

Yes, it is exactly that. Same for those places in Eastern Anatolia in which they fire Ak47 everytime somebody gets married. By the way, it is easier to find a place to buy a gun in Ankara than in Madrid.


Random Ak47 shooting is called some sort of cultural celebration in wedding. This point of view makes me go crazy! We are totally against them and thinking of how to stop those kind of incidents in Turkey. You may also come across women discussing them in TV broadcasts if you turn on your television. You know women shows. "Do not shoot like a moron. No more people die!" :).


AFTER ALL, Let me make it brief and intelligible for everybody. All the relations towards Kurds are for precious earth filled up with petroleum by god in the middle-east. Can you dispute it?

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby ornament » 2008-10-31, 10:23

You can read here what Turks did to Armenians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide but Turkey doesn't admit they did it, ofcourse, and invents some stories about civil war etc. but we all know what happened, the whole world recognized the genocide - just Turks seem to think that there are fools around them...

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby zhiguli » 2008-10-31, 12:12

I don't understand what such a politically loaded topic as this one is doing here. I thought this was a forum about the _language_. Is anyone here actually learning Armenian?

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby ornament » 2008-10-31, 12:42

zhiguli wrote:I don't understand what such a politically loaded topic as this one is doing here. I thought this was a forum about the _language_. Is anyone here actually learning Armenian?

yeah, I was wondering too, but couldn't resist and replied. I'm currently started the studies, this Sunday will be the second lesson.
zhigul, du hayeren es xosum? ch'eyi asum. shat urax em :) <-- sorry for latin script, I'm at work now, so no armenian layout
Last edited by ornament on 2008-10-31, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby sa wulfs » 2008-10-31, 12:47

Well, you can't separate the language from the culture, and the culture from the history.
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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby zhiguli » 2008-10-31, 13:07

ornament wrote:yeah, I was wondering too, but couldn't resist and replied. I'm currently started the studies, this Sunday will be the second lesson.


I have my own opinions on this subject (and the situation of minorities in Turkey...), but I will keep them to myself :-)

ornament wrote:zhigul, du hayeren xosum es? ch'eyi asum. shat urax em :) <-- sorry for latin script, I'm at work now, so no armenian layout


ch'em, i think of studying but somehow never get around to it...

sa wulfs wrote:Well, you can't separate the language from the culture, and the culture from the history.


Maybe so, but this discussion has nothing to do with the language and has turned into one that's more about Turkey/the EU/the Kurds/Circassians/Abkhaz/etc, than Armenia.

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby ornament » 2008-10-31, 14:58

zhiguli wrote:
ornament wrote:yeah, I was wondering too, but couldn't resist and replied. I'm currently started the studies, this Sunday will be the second lesson.


I have my own opinions on this subject (and the situation of minorities in Turkey...), but I will keep them to myself :-)

your opinion would be really interesting to know, zhigul ! just not here in "Armenian language" forum, ofcourse :)

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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby kalemiye » 2008-10-31, 23:38

Armenians and Azeri Turks coexist in Tabriz and other places of Iran, and probably of Armenia. Idk, i find the whole issue very retarded; yet, historians have not said their final word about it... I think that maybe in a hundred years or so people can be more objective about it, but with the current political situation it is simply not possible.
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Re: Translations

Postby Mert » 2008-11-10, 22:36

Could you translate the song "Adanay vorkperke"?
ه ه
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Re: A question about Armenia

Postby Mert » 2008-11-10, 23:10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention ... f_Genocide

As to the definitions, the 1915 events could be recognized as a genocide. Nevertheless historians should decide if it is a genocide or not instead of politicians. Yet it is a fact: None of Armenians exist in Anatolia, and this is a great tragedy!
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Հայերեն

Postby Laoshu505000 » 2008-11-12, 3:32

Բարեւ ձեզ.

Անունս Մուկ է եւ Ամերիկացի եմ. Ամերիկացի եմ բայց, ես ալ կու-զեմ Հայերէն սովորել. Բայց ինչու՞. Որհոկտել, ես խորհիմ որ Հայերեն ջատ հետաքրքիք է. Ես ալ խորհիմ որ մէկ լեզուն բնաւ հերիք չէ. Ես Հայերեն քիչ նը կը հասկնար եւ խօսիմ, ուստի, եդե կու-զեմ Հայերէն ջատ լաւ խոսել, պիտի աջխատիմ Հայերեն սորվիլ. Յտեսութիւն, ջնորհակալություն.

Մուկ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5HJzU5BXGM

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Armenian in Istambul

Postby 0stsee » 2008-11-27, 5:52

Hi!

I got to know an Armenian girl (very very very very pretty :yep:) from Turkey (Istambul).
I'd like to impress her with a couple of Armenian phrases but found out that there's Eastern and Western Armenian.
Do you know which one Armenians in Istambul speak?

Mersi!


Mark
Ini tandatanganku.


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