Aramaic

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Aramaic

Postby Æxylis » 2008-01-15, 7:48

Since hebrew has been revived, I don't see why this language, which has had a lot of importance as hebrew has had, has not been revived with as much enthusiasm. If anybody has any information about the language, and the differences between western and eastern classical aramaic, I would much appreciate it...

An interesting note for this language, is that it's supposedly supposed to have been the vernacular language of much of the fertile crescent when Jesus was alive, and was likely spoken by him and his apostles, and was likely used in their gospels...
As it is also the language used in the dead sea scrolls :D
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Postby E}{pugnator » 2008-01-15, 8:36

The best site on aramaic,

http://www.assyrianlanguage.com ,

seems to be gone (the files are still there, just the URL doesn't open, it's blank). :cry:
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Postby Æxylis » 2008-01-15, 10:08

yes, this was the site I was checking out before

I have a few topics of interest I was wondering about with this...

1 - which script is preferred for aramaic? phoenician, hebrew, or syriac style? (not in general, I'm just curios what you think... I like all three :D )
2 - Isn't 'assyrian' supposed to be eastern aramaic? I read somewhere that apparently they were supposed to be enemies with the users of western aramaic... although I don't know much yet about the history... (though I'm currently looking into that too ;) )
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Postby Kuba » 2008-01-15, 10:29

Jaakuuta wrote:1 - which script is preferred for aramaic? phoenician, hebrew, or syriac style? (not in general, I'm just curios what you think... I like all three :D )

Well, it depends -
Phoenician script isn't used any more, the only exception being reproducing old (original) texts from ancient times. Fonts are obtainable with a little bit of surfing.
Hebrew script is used still today, since parts of the Talmud are in Aramaic/influenced by Aramaic. But that's really old Western Aramaic. Fonts are no problem.
Syriac script also in use today, but rather by Aramaic speaking Christians, as far as I know. In fact, it is the preferable script for modern day Aramaic. Fonts are obtainable.

Although you are right that all three scripts have something to them, I'd rather choose one of the two latter, simply because it is possible to write them more or less fluently - they have cursive forms. The Phoenician script looks very ancient - but because of that (right-angled forms, different angles of strokes) you cannot write it as fast as the two younger scripts and some combinations of its letters look kind of disproportionate to me...
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Postby Æxylis » 2008-01-16, 8:56

hehe... I think the modern syriac script looks pretty kewl, and I have the utmost of respect for the modern hebrew script

but personally, I have adapted my own personal form of phoenician that I use (I have written my little transliterated sentence in phoenician, hebrew, and arabic :) ) and I would likely use it to actually write in aramaic if I knew it, rather than syriac, which I would probably only use alongside arabic, as I'd likely use the hebrew square script along with hebrew...

in either case, not being used nowadays has never stopped me before, as right now I'm also studying elder fuþark and plan on using it if I ever learn more icelandic :)

there actually is a modern script that's very rare, but it's actually the closest living descendant of phoenician...
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/samaritan.htm
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Postby Kuba » 2008-01-16, 11:04

Ah, Samaritan - it's an interesting script, but as Phoenician: it doesn't "flow" (imho). As far as I know, the Tetragramm in Hebrew texts from Qumran was written with the old Hebrew script (an intermediate form between Phoenician and (modern) Samaritan). Looks pretty funny - all the time you have the new (new Aramaic-based) Hebrew script, and suddenly a YHWH pops up in old Hebrew script... If I remember correctly, it looked like the one in the middle:
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Postby kalemiye » 2008-01-16, 15:09

I studied 10th century b.C. Aramaic ın university for almost a year. It is a very interesting language. Unfortunately, I couldn't study it in depth, because it was a course focused on hıstory and also because there aren't many written records in this early phase of Aramaic.
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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-18, 16:36

A grammar of the Modern Syriac Language on google books
There are some other books about Modern Aramaic/Syriac/Assyrian to be found there.

And another site about (conversational) Neo-Aramaic:

http://www.learnassyrian.com/

I used to know people (from Iran) who spoke this language, even tried to study it, it's actually a lot like Modern Hebrew, except it has the emphatic consonants and a lot of Persian/Turkish/Kurdish loan words.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-19, 9:10

assyrian tv online:

http://www.betnahrain.org/KBSV/kbsv.htm

Kuba wrote:Syriac script also in use today, but rather by Aramaic speaking Christians, as far as I know. In fact, it is the preferable script for modern day Aramaic. Fonts are obtainable.


there are three scripts still used in modern aramaic

nestorian (used by easterners)
serto (used by westerners)
and estrangela (used by both but mainly for decorative purposes)

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Aramaic sayings/proverbs

Postby eskandar » 2008-07-24, 23:22

Shlama! I'm looking for Aramaic sayings or proverbs about the following topics:

-religion (specifically about co-existence with Muslims and/or Jews)
-migration
-being a minority/persecuted/etc.
-diaspora

It doesn't matter what dialect - ancient, modern, Eastern, Western, whatever. If anyone can think of relevant Aramaic sayings and could provide them (preferably in Aramaic with an English translation :) ) I would be very grateful! I'm also looking for similar sayings in Armenian if you happen to know any.
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Aramaic

Postby ''' » 2008-08-29, 14:40

As regards the revival of Hebrew but not Aramaic, the zionist movemetn was split. The religious groups wanted Yiddish to be the official language of Israel, and keep Hebrew and Aramaic as sacred languages (both in use in the Torah, Talmud and so on). However, since Yiddish was only spoken by Ashkenazi jews, it was decided that they go to Hebrew. Since the Bar Mitzvah requires a boy to read in Hebrew but not Aramaic, I'd say Hebrew is more important to jews and mroe prevalent in Jewish culture.

And thus was born the modern Hebrew revival movement.
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Re: Aramaic

Postby Matt505 » 2008-08-30, 12:33

NOTE: This post does not provide lessons, tips, or anything else to be used for learning the language. It is mainly a personal post, but is still relevant to Aramaic. I do not claim masterful knowledge of the historic or even contemporary use of Aramaic. Not even close. :cry:

I speak Aramaic, though it is unfortunate that I must say I cannot write or read it. It is also sad that I'm not certain what dialect or style I speak, but since my parents are from Iran it gives you and I a clue. According to my mother, her parents were born in Iran as well (her father is Armenian, and her mother is Assyrian). My father's father was born in Turkey, and his mother was born in Russia, and they were both Assyrian. So, I just claim that I am Armenian and Assyrian (mostly the latter, obviously), but who knows for certain....

Anyway, I MOSTLY speak Aramaic to the older crowd, such as parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, etc. but even to Assyrian strangers or non-family (teachers, family-friends, etc.) Of course, though, I do sometimes utter some words or phrases in Aramaic to my young cousins and Assyrian friends. Also, later on in using Aramaic I learned that there were a handful of Aramaic words replaced with words in Farsi, and even some Russian. Though I have learned the difference, I still use the Farsi word since I am so accustomed to it.

I should mention that, back in summer 2005 and back home in southern California, the first Assyrian school in the U.S. was founded, and I was one of the first students enrolled. I was also the oldest student to attend the school. However, I dropped out last year due to personal reasons. I would've been the first to graduate from the school, which would've been great for history, haha. Anyway, the classes consisted of general teachings you receive in public schools with the addition of religion, Mesopotamian history, and best of all, Aramaic! These were, or still are, to be taught to all grade-levels. The first year we had Father David teach us the lessons in each of those three classes. And though I was constantly absent, again for personal reasons, I eventually noticed that his teachings and lessons of the Aramaic language were slightly different from the teacher that would replace him the following year. I just don't remember what I had spotted out, BUT I have kept just about all the handouts and lessons I was provided for my time in that class/school. Because of the lack of discipline and due to my depression, I never studied Aramaic in school, or any other subject for that matter. Seeing and hearing the students who didn't really appreciate learning Aramaic or anything else in that case succeed makes me upset in a way. I just wonder if the students ever matured enough to understand just how great and important it would be for them to really learn what they were given daily.

I have not yet visited the helpful links posted above, but I'm sure I've been to at least one of those sites a long time ago. But, if anyone is interested enough I can dig up my old handouts (from alphabet to grammar to stories) and perhaps explain the lessons and notes to you.

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Re: Aramaic

Postby eskandar » 2008-08-31, 0:10

:welcome: Matt! If your parents are from Iran, especially if they're from around Lake Urmia (Orumiyeh), they probably speak the Assyrian Neo-Aramaic dialect. I would love if you could upload your old handouts, and especially if you could explain the lessons, and I know there are others here who are eager to learn Aramaic! I've been wanting to learn for awhile (particularly the dialect spoken in Iran!) but haven't been able to find someone to help me. Though I'm not Assyrian, I am Iranian and used to work helping Iranian religious minorities emigrate to the U.S., and I had many Armenian and Assyrian clients. I speak Persian and a little Armenian, but no Assyrian - so it would be great to pick up the language for future work.

By the way, if you happen to know any Aramaic sayings/proverbs along the lines I'm looking for in my post above, I'd be very grateful if you'd share them!
Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Aramaic

Postby Matt505 » 2008-09-01, 9:27

Yes, I believe my mother is from Lake Urmia.

If I had known you had replied I would have dug up the handouts and provided them somehow by now. BUT I was never notified through email of your quick response, and I only found out by thinking the email notice failed and checked here directly :ohwell: But my point is, I will be leaving to California in several hours and so I need to get some rest. I hate to delay this for you, but I'll have to upload the handouts when I get back, which will take a couple weeks or more. :(

Meanwhile being in California with my parents, however, I will ask them for any proverbs and such in Aramaic to deliver to you when I get back.

Again, I apologize for the delay.

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Re: Aramaic

Postby eskandar » 2008-09-01, 22:47

Ah, I figured as much! Some of my relatives are from Iranian Azarbaijan (though a little further from Lake Urmia) as well.

No worries, take your time. :) I appreciate you asking your parents about proverbs for me! I wish I had spent more time in the North Hollywood/Tarzana area (there's a big Assyrian population there) when I lived in LA. I probably could have picked some Aramaic up, like I did with Armenian from living and working in Glendale (which has a huge Armenian population).
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Re:

Postby Anima Benedicta » 2009-02-21, 22:48

E}{pugnator wrote:The best site on aramaic,

http://www.assyrianlanguage.com ,

seems to be gone (the files are still there, just the URL doesn't open, it's blank). :cry:


Here's the link to the archived website (on Internet Archive): The Assyrian Aramaic Language Website. I just found this link a couple of days ago.

I just want to note, though, that some of the files of the website are missing.
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Re: Aramaic

Postby eskandar » 2009-09-29, 4:07

Please correct my mistakes in any language.

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Re: Aramaic

Postby csjc » 2009-09-29, 6:41

Thanks for the links, Eskandar. I'm quite interested in Aramaic, but more so in the form used in Jewish liturgy.
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Re: Aramaic

Postby Serge » 2013-12-08, 20:53

The Neoaramaic ( Urmi language ) translation of Lermontov's " Ashik Kerib" http://www.twirpx.com/file/1295843/


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