British Sign Language

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Sisyphe
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-04, 2:19

Hey Daniel, I was wondering if you could explain the BSL syntax and perhaps compare it to ASL's. This might seem really retarted, but are there any significant rifts in facial grammar between the languages? Thanks. :)
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Postby Passe-Cale » 2007-11-04, 13:55

So someone using a sign language has a facial tick, is it like a speaking person who has Tourette's syndrome?

:lol:

Sorry I kind of had to. Hehe!

Seriously, very good idea, can't wait to see your videos. :D
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-04, 16:52

Thanks for that Daniel. Perhaps I'm a little out of the loop here, but I thought that signing the question mark was something from Signed English, not American Sign Language. The question word appearing twice is definitely something unlike ASL, in Contact Signing, the question word is usually in the beginning of the question, and in ASL it's generally the last word. It's also accompanied by raising or lowering the eyebrows. Sometimes this difference is a matter of the nature of the question - questions with a yes or no answer often have the eyebrow lowering motion, while questions that require more often have the signer raise their eyebrows. That leads me to another question.
In ASL, we have rhetorical questions that the signer themself answers. For example,

English: I like sign language because it's fun.
ASL: ME - LIKE - ASL - WHY?(eyebrow raising, accompanied by short pause) ASL - FUN

It's very often used instead of 'because' like in this case. Is there any equivalent to this in BSL? Thanks for your other explanations Daniel; sign languages just fascinate me. :D
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-05, 1:44

I wonder if it's a formal construction in ASL too...I'll have to ask someone. I have to say though, Daniel, I've never encountered anyone using the question mark as a sign - have you seen it in any of the ASL videos on youtube that you've been watching? But yeah, we have signed English as well as Contact Signing/Pidgin Signed English. PSE seems very similar to Sign Support English. Thanks again for all of the comparisons/explanations. :)
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Postby Alejo » 2007-11-08, 4:26

Sisyphe wrote:Thanks for that Daniel. Perhaps I'm a little out of the loop here, but I thought that signing the question mark was something from Signed English, not American Sign Language. The question word appearing twice is definitely something unlike ASL, in Contact Signing, the question word is usually in the beginning of the question, and in ASL it's generally the last word. It's also accompanied by raising or lowering the eyebrows. Sometimes this difference is a matter of the nature of the question - questions with a yes or no answer often have the eyebrow lowering motion, while questions that require more often have the signer raise their eyebrows. That leads me to another question.
In ASL, we have rhetorical questions that the signer themself answers. For example,

English: I like sign language because it's fun.
ASL: ME - LIKE - ASL - WHY?(eyebrow raising, accompanied by short pause) ASL - FUN

It's very often used instead of 'because' like in this case. Is there any equivalent to this in BSL? Thanks for your other explanations Daniel; sign languages just fascinate me. :D


Interesting...

Out in New York, it would be:

NY ASL: ASL ME LIKE WHY? ASL FUN.

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Postby Alejo » 2007-11-08, 4:28

BSL: BEEN - HEARD - I - YOU - WANT - LEARN - ITALIAN - TRUE?

Hm...we don't use a sign for BEEN.

ASL: ITALIAN YOU WANT LEARN HEAR ME. THAT RIGHT?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-08, 4:56

Alejo wrote:
Sisyphe wrote:Thanks for that Daniel. Perhaps I'm a little out of the loop here, but I thought that signing the question mark was something from Signed English, not American Sign Language. The question word appearing twice is definitely something unlike ASL, in Contact Signing, the question word is usually in the beginning of the question, and in ASL it's generally the last word. It's also accompanied by raising or lowering the eyebrows. Sometimes this difference is a matter of the nature of the question - questions with a yes or no answer often have the eyebrow lowering motion, while questions that require more often have the signer raise their eyebrows. That leads me to another question.
In ASL, we have rhetorical questions that the signer themself answers. For example,

English: I like sign language because it's fun.
ASL: ME - LIKE - ASL - WHY?(eyebrow raising, accompanied by short pause) ASL - FUN

It's very often used instead of 'because' like in this case. Is there any equivalent to this in BSL? Thanks for your other explanations Daniel; sign languages just fascinate me. :D


Interesting...

Out in New York, it would be:

NY ASL: ASL ME LIKE WHY? ASL FUN.


And in California too.

I had a retard moment. :oops:
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Postby Alejo » 2007-11-08, 5:40

Hehe.

Yeah...I used to find it difficult to synchronize into somebody else's vocabulary.

Even on Long Island, it varies.

I plan to interpret my way through college though, so it is easier for me now.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-08, 6:47

Alejo wrote:
I plan to interpret my way through college though, so it is easier for me now.


I was thinking of getting a certificate in ASL from a JC so I could do the same. But it's a 30 credit program...so I'm thinking I might as well not bother with it and just go for a degree. I dunno...
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BSL native signer

Postby mdh23 » 2007-11-10, 15:24

I'm native signer... I don't mind to teach you to learn BSL... Sorry if my English is terrible because I don't use it in home language and school too... :D

Don't hesitate contact with me!! :lol:

P.S I can sign ASL a little, lots of different sign languages have short like BSL, LSF etc

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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-10, 22:02

Different from ASL already! :P Thanks Daniel, the POV videos idea is genius! ;)

One question so far - in the few BSL videos I've seen, it seems [I don't know how accurate that is...]you guys fingerspell slightly slower than ASL-users do...perhaps its because you use two hands for the alphabet - is there ever an alphabet used that only uses one hand? For convenience's sake or anything?
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-11, 3:34

Bar communication sounds complicated! :P :lol:

I know there are glosses that we use here, but they're mostly used in Signed English or to teach Deaf people English grammar. Some examples are '-ment', in which the dominant M hand is moved down a flattened palm facing the reciever. '-Ness' is signed the same way, but with an N hand. Another example would be the '-ly' ending - you use the 'I-LOVE-YOU' hand shape and wave it downwards. ASL has them too though - you might notice them when there are double letters in a row, or in words borrowed from English. The sign for bus, for example, is signed B-S, at least here in California. The ligatures don't put me off at all; Deaf people in general don't seem to be like certain language-users that seem not to feel that its worth their time to help non-natives learn their language - I've always found it to be the opposite, in fact...as long as you don't assume that they will put down anything else they're doing to teach you some aspect of sign language...that would be unreasonable, but some people seem not to think the same way...:roll:
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-11, 4:09

I was on deafvideo.tv and found this amusing video in the BSL section - I wanted to post it here - enjoy if you haven't seen it. http://bsl.deafvideo.tv/watch/3239

Goddamnit, it's so hard to understand sign language...and I'm talking ASL, even. :twisted:
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-11, 17:44

What a close-knit community, eh?
And he's really hot btw, that makes it so much more entertaining to watch...:oops:
Almost done with the alphabet too btw...
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-13, 4:42

Done with the alphabet. BTW, is it me or is the sign for LONDON pretty similar if not identical to the ASL sign for CRAZY? :lol: And the sign for MAN looks a lot like WOMAN to me. :haha: Perhaps it's just because I've been up since 3 this morning that I'm seeing so many false friends... :twisted:

EDIT: BSL's NERVOUS looks similar to CONSCIENCE/CONVICTION in ASL too...
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-14, 4:04

OMG I love this...Deaf people seem to be intentionally hilarious when it comes to their sign languages...;) I hope that doesn't come off offensive or anything...:oops:
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-26, 21:29

Cool Daniel! Um...I did a little exercise with the fingerspelling - it's here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7y4IglYM5s. Check it out before I delete it and redo it because of the horrific static (and I thought I turned the volume down and off :twisted: ). But yeah... :oops: I hope that you can catch all of it with the ASL you've learned, and my meager ASL...:hmhihi: OMG though...I sign like I'm on crack... :haha: even more of a spaz then usual. :roll:
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-11-26, 22:46

That helps, thanks. Hopefully I'll get it right when I redo the video...
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Postby Sisyphe » 2007-12-02, 6:00

Daniel wrote:The last video is an exercise! Can you understand what is being said? If so then write down the answers here! :)


Here are the glosses as I saw them...
1. HE/SHE STAY HOME HE/SHE.
About this sentence: Does BSL use indexing like ASL does? Along the same lines, can verbs be directional, or do they require pronouns?
2. SIGN-LANGUAGE LIKE YOU?
3. COOK NOT-LIKE ME.
4. SEE TV YOU?
5. STUDY LIKE ME.
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Postby Steisi » 2007-12-09, 18:18

I just wanted to comment that I've watched your videos, Daniel, and I found them really interesting :waytogo:
I did a disability awareness course with St. John's Ambulance in England but we only got taught things like giraffe.

There was one sign I've known for ages but I'm not sure if it's a BSL word or not. I wonder if it means anything. We basically used it to say "F off". I don't have a camera so I'll try to explain here.

1) Turn palm of left hand up. Touch it with your index and middle fingers of your right hand, facing down.
2) Do the same, but turn the fingers up.
3) Put the fingers of your right hand in a "scissor" position and "cut" the palm of your left hand.
4) Bang the clenched fist of your right hand against the upturned palm of your left hand, and lift it off again.

Hope I explained it well :?
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