Lo Subjèct Occitan

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ego
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Postby ego » 2007-10-03, 11:15

Cette langue pareillie tant belle. Meme-si je ne peux pas etre certain comment lire les mots..

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Postby greg-fr » 2007-10-04, 10:51

ego wrote:Cette langue pareillie tant belle. Meme-si je ne peux pas etre certain comment lire les mots..

Oui, les langues d'Oc sont merveilleusement belles.

Si tu cliques ici, une page va apparaître avec un glossaire d'une soixantaine de mots occitans avec, en regard, leur équivalent français. Si tu glisses ta souris et poses le curseur sur un mot en rouge, une voix te donnera automatiquement sa prononciation.

Par exemple le premier mot en haut à gauche est Oc <abrial> = Fr <avril>. La prononciation est : /abrial/. Pour le mot juste en-dessous, Oc <abrigat> = Fr <abrité>, c'est /abrigat/. Et ainsi de suite.

Déjà, tu peux constater que le graphème <o> se prononce /u/. Exemples :
<agost> → /agust/
<lo cap> → /lukap/
<lo chuc> → /lut_Syk/ = /lut͡ʃyk/
<lo cosin> → /lukuzi/
<dos> → /dus/
<escotar> → /Eskuta/ = /ɛskuta/.

Mais pas toujours :
<lo campairol> → /lukOmpaI_^rOl/ = /lukɔmpaɪ̯rɔl/.

Et le graphème <ò> se prononce /O/ = /ɔ/.
<lo bòl> → /lubOl/ = /lubɔl/
<lo còl> → /lukOl/ = /lukɔl/
<lo còs> → /lukOs/ = /lukɔs/
<la demòra> → /lademOro/ = /lademɔro/.

À l'instar des verbes français du premier groupe (aimer, chanter, manger etc), le <r> graphique ne se prononce pas en finale des verbes occitans qui prennent <#ar> à l'infinitif :
<agachar> → /agat_Sa/ = /agat͡ʃa/
<commençar> → /kumEnsa/ = /kumɛnsa/
<contar> → /kunta/
<conversar> → /kunvErsa/ = /kunvɛrsa/
<demandar> → /demanda/
<demorar> → /demura/.

Clique ici pour obtenir l'imagier de la famille = l'imagièr de la familha.

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Kijdar
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Postby Kijdar » 2007-10-17, 18:27

I really would like to learn Occitan! ^_^
I'm Italian, so I think it's not so complex to study for me.
In any case. Is still this 3d open? Any new lesson?

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Postby kokoyaya » 2008-04-09, 21:00

Vaquí, la version novèla es sortida : http://www.totenoc.org/index.php5 :)

Un pauc d'istòria...
Lo projècte Tot en òc foguèt iniciat per de PE2 (regents en estagi, abans d'èsser titulars) doncas las escòlas bilingüas e çò que s'i fa es fòrt important per nosautres.
Sabèm totes qu'avèm fòrt pauc de material en òc, doncas nos debèm far gaireben tot. Lo problema es que soi segur que de reviradas o d'adaptacions d'alboms, de documents pedagogics, de leiçons, etc. son fachas mai d'un còp dins tota l'academia. Quin ganh de temps se podiam aver un luòc d'escambis per tot aquò... Ara i es, avem una plataforma d'escambis per tot aquò.

De que i a aicí ?
Sus aqueste sit, poirètz trobar mai que mai doas partidas :
- de documents pedagogics en occitan (i podètz botar los vòstres e descargar los dels autres),
- de ressorgas informaticas en occitan (siá ja reviradas, siá de revirar, amb l'ajuda que cal).
Sèm tanben a far una tièra organizada de totas las escòlas que prepausan un ensenhament bilingüe (siá dins lo public, siá en Calandreta).

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Postby kokoyaya » 2008-06-18, 13:31

De bonas novèlas sus http://www.totenoc.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox. Bon, i a encara fòrça trabalh a far dessús mas cal plan començar... Trantolètz pas a me dire de que ne pensatz.

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby hotfruit38 » 2008-08-26, 23:16

Bonjour en tóuti !

Siéu prouvençau . Parli un pau la lengo prouvençalo. Coumpreni mai que sabe parla. Sabe pas escrieure dins la grafio classico soulament dins la grafio mistralenco, mai pode legi la grafio classico.

I'm from Provence. I speak a little bit Provençal. I understand more than I'm able to speak. I can't write in classical writing only in Mistralenco writing, but I can read classical writing.

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby kokoyaya » 2008-08-26, 23:53

Planvengut :)

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby Gaelg » 2009-12-19, 21:39

Adiu, apreni l'occitan despuèi un jorn mai ièu lo tròbi un pauc malaisit perqué tròbi pas un bòn diccionario. Ara usi > [http://www.freelang.net/online/occitan.php?lg=gb e http://www.occitania.online.fr/aqui.com ... en-oc.html] mai eles son fòrça "limited" Podètz m'ajudar? :D

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby kokoyaya » 2009-12-19, 22:29

Me sembla que çò melhor seriá de ne crompar un. N'i a de bons en francés-occitan-francés mas soi pas segur que n'i aja en anglés...

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Gaelg
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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby Gaelg » 2010-01-07, 14:28

Adieu!!

Va plan?? Soi a l'escòla ara :( Ai pensat que deuriái escriver un pauc d'occitan per melhorar aquela lenga :D . Escriurai mai quora ai lo temps, ara devi anar a mon cors. :(

Adieu :P

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby kokoyaya » 2010-01-08, 7:13

E ben de vam per ton cors :)

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby GDJ » 2010-01-26, 21:56

Hi all,

I've found people to translate my very short 100-word story 'The Gondolier' into many of the smaller European languages, including Francoprovencal, Catalan, Galician, Mirandes, Breton and Romansch.

Is there anyone who would be interested in translating it into Occitan for me?

Please let me know through the forum or email me: garethdjones1 AT yahoo.co.uk

Thanks!

Gareth

www.garethdjones.co.uk
Native: [flag]en[/flag]
Almost fluent, but now getting rusty: [flag]en[/flag]British Sign Language
Good enough for holidays: [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]de[/flag]
A few words: [flag]cy[/flag][flag]zh[/flag][flag]el[/flag]

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loqu
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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby loqu » 2010-07-04, 7:55

Bonjorn! Ai una question. (Hope soon I'll have more questions, lol).

In Standard Occitan (not in Aranese, though) final -a is pronounced [ɔ], but not always, is it? Is the feminine singular article pronounced then [la] or [lɔ]?

Mercès!
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby kokoyaya » 2010-07-07, 13:50

loqu wrote:In Standard Occitan (not in Aranese, though) final -a is pronounced [ɔ], but not always, is it?

No, it's always pronounced (but when not tonic, you don't hear it a lot).

Is the feminine singular article pronounced then [la] or [lɔ]?
[la] (only one syllab, so the final "a" is pronounced "normally".

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby fadoli » 2010-07-08, 22:42

Bonjorn a tots !

In Standard Occitan, final -a is pronounced [ɔ], unless it is written with l'accent grèu (-à), which is pronounced [a]. In niçart and montpelhierenc, final -a is pronounced [a] or [ə].

kokoyaya is correct -- final -a in single syllable words (la, ma, ta, sa, fa, ga, ja, etc.) is pronounced [a].

loqu wrote:In Standard Occitan (not in Aranese, though) final -a is pronounced [ɔ], but not always, is it? Is the feminine singular article pronounced then [la] or [lɔ]?

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby loqu » 2010-07-09, 5:51

Grandmercé!

Soi a Tolosa per trabalh e ensagi d'aprene aquesta polida lenga, mas i a pas de bonas ressorgas. Crompèri un libre mas trapi pas que siaga bon, ben-si es poblejat de l'Institut d'Estudis Occitans. Als vocabularis i màncan fòrça de paraulas que òm emmèrça als tèstes, a la gramatica i esplícan pas fòrça causas... coma aquelas qu'ai demandat çai-davant.

Los vèrbes qu'acàban en -an (acàban, màncan, esplícan) cossí òm pronónçan? La -n sona? Que fasèm ambe la -a? [-an], [-ɔn] o-ben [-ɔ]?

Mercé :)
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby fadoli » 2010-07-09, 22:11

loqu wrote:Los vèrbes qu'acàban en -an (acàban, màncan, esplícan) cossí òm pronónçan? La -n sona? Que fasèm ambe la -a? [-an], [-ɔn] o-ben [-ɔ]?


eh bèh ... vòles de responsas simplas ? :mrgreen:

    -an finala, terminason atònica dins los vèrbs a la 3a persona del plural, se prononça [ɔn] o [ɔⁿ] ... mas tanben se pòt ausir [un] o [uⁿ] dins fòrça parlars.

    -an finala, terminason tonica, se prononça [a] o [aⁿ] ... mas tanben se tròba [ɔ] dins fòrça parlars.

    -n finala es normalament muda dins la majoritat dels mots e [n] dins certans mots e [ⁿ] (seminasalizacion de la vocala precedenta) dins los parlars provençals e vivaroaupencs.

Here is an exemple of a speaker who employs [uⁿ] or maybe even [u] for the 3rd person plural verb:
http://www.crdp-montpellier.fr/occitan/labo/textes.html

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby alexbn » 2010-08-10, 14:21

Adishatz a toti!

M'apèri Álex e escriui de Barcelona, Espanha. Ara i a lèu quate ans que comencè a estudiar er aranés e ara sò nau en aguest forum. I a ja quauqui dies que vengui liegent es diferenti comentaris qu'avetz deishat per ací, son plan interessants.

Vau a contunhar de liéger auti messatges, entà dempús!!
"Aprovecha la ocasión, que el río pasa por Pisuerga." (sic)

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Re: Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby FutureSpy » 2010-10-02, 4:43

Adishatz!

Non sabia cap que i avian autant de gents que parlessen eth occitan pr'aciu. Que parli ua sòrta de barreja d'aranés dambe d'autis parlars gascons montanhòus (especiauments coseranés e comengés).

A veir se mès gent s'anima a escríver en occitan en aguest fòrum! ^^

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Occitan

Postby ceid donn » 2012-07-06, 16:41

I'm interested in Occitan so I wanted to start a thread to pool together resoruces as connect with speakers, learners and other people who are interested in the language.

Some basic info:

Occitan is a Romance language spoken since the early middle age in the southern part of Western Europe known historically as Occitania or Lo Pais d'Òc. Nicknamed today as the "language of the troubadours", Occitan has played a significant role in shaping the culture, art, music and literature of the region, and was referenced by important medieval figures like Boethius and Dante. Today, it's spoken mostly in France, but also in Monaco and by a few communities in Spain and Italy. It's most closely related to Catalan, with which it shares a long historical relationship, but is also related to many other minority Romance languages in that part of Europe. UNESCO classifies 4 of the 6 dialects of Occitan as severely endangered, with the other two being definitely endangered. But there are efforts to revive the language. Because of Occitan's multi-nation range and aging native speaker population, accurate up-to-date data of the number of native speakers is hard to come by. I've seen estimates varying from 500,000 to 1,000,000+.

Spoken Occitan sounds to me sometimes like a mix of Italian and Spanish with a French stress and other times, like a mix of French and Spanish with an Italian stress. Here's singer Joanda speaking in both Occitana and French:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xinw5a ... citanes_tv

Occitan appears to grammatically align fairly closely to French but also with some grammar that looks similar to Italian or Spanish. To me, Occitan seems more closely related to ancient Latin than any other Romance language I've studied or have general knowledge about.

Resources:

Occitan resources are pretty scare, especially for anyone with no previous knowledge of French or another modern Romance language. Some resources I've come across for far:

Freelang's Occitan/English-English/Occitan (which is only about 1200 words, so probably pretty limited): http://www.freelang.net/dictionary/occitan.php

Joanda's website: http://www.joanda.fr/ His site lets you read the text in Occitan, French and English, and his album is available for download via several outlets and is available even here in the US via iTunes and Amazon (I got it from Amazon). On his site you can get the lyrics in both Occitan and French: http://www.joanda.fr/album-joanda/register/ Joanda's also on Twitter: @joandaoc

Dailymotion seems to be a better site to look for Occitan videos that You Tube: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/occitan/1

Twitter accounts of Occitan orgs & journals online (you can get links to their websites via their profiles):

@Institutoccitan
@la_setmana
@jornalet
@ForumOccitania


And you can find Occitan speakers on Twitter by looking through those account's following lists. i haven't come across people who are learning Occitan on twitter yet, but that doesn't mean they are out there. The most common hashtag seems to simply be #Occitan, but like with Gàidhlig and Brezhoneg speakers on Twitter, many don't tag their Occitan tweets. So i find it better track down speakers by looking through through other accounts'following list. :wink:

So that's a start. Still looking for plain old learning online resources like lessons, courses, learners'forum, book sellers, mre *dictionaries*. If you have anything, please post it. Mercé plan!


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