Lo Subjèct Occitan

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Evil Weasel
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Lo Subjèct Occitan

Postby Evil Weasel » 2006-11-02, 2:11

Aicí, escrivèm en occitan. Pensi que lo provençau es pas fòrça populari aicí mai l'apreni. Si sètz provençau, ajutatz-ieu! Parli pas ben malurosament...

Oc, mon post es pas fòrça prefond. Mai ai començat fòrça recentament, alora perdornatz mei fauta.


(Ici on écrit en occitan. Je pense pas qu'il soit trop populaire ici mais je l'apprend quand même. Si vous êtes provençal, aidez-moi! Je parle pas trop bien malheureusement...

Ouais pas trop profonde comme post. Mais je viens juste de commencer alors pardonnez mes centaines de fautes...)
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Français (Used every day)
Cymraeg (Embarrassing)
Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)
Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)

Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Soassae
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Postby Soassae » 2006-11-03, 22:26

Ehi, I am a lot interested in Occitan too!!

I had found an interesting collection of Occitan literature works:
http://www.up.univ-mrs.fr/tresoc/sommaire.htm

and some online courses (I have linked at least one from the Unilang home under 'Occitan'). I cannot however speak/write Occitan, while I see that you already are at a good level! So I hope I can learn some Occitan from you and others :)

A bien leu

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Postby Evil Weasel » 2006-11-05, 4:47

Hé, lo provençau es facile quora l'òm a aprenat lo francés. Se semblan un pauc. De tota maniera, es bòn de vière quauqu'un quau s'interessa au provençau.

(Òc, apreni lo "provençau"...es un tipe d'occitan. Es perqué agradi la region ò l'òm lo parla, e perqué ai diccionari en provençau unicament. Pasmens sai pas si eu i a dei diferéncias entre aquò e lo <<veria>> occitan )


Hey, Provençal is easy when you've already learnt French. They ressemble eachother a bit. Anyway, it's good to see someone who's also intérested.

(Yeah, I'm learning "provençal", it's a type of occitan. It's because I like the region where it's spoken and because I have only a French-Provençal dictionnary. However I don't know if there are differences between it and "true" occitan.)
*English*

Français (Used every day)

Cymraeg (Embarrassing)

Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)

Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)



Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Soassae
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Postby Soassae » 2006-11-05, 21:02

Hey, Provençal is easy when you've already learnt French. They ressemble eachother a bit. Anyway, it's good to see someone who's also intérested.


Indeed. In addition, I am from the Italian region of Liguria, that borders Provence, so my dialect has a significant amount of features in common with Provençal, hence I often find very easy to read Provençal texts, even if I have basically no knowledge of it.

Evil Weasel wrote:(Yeah, I'm learning "provençal", it's a type of occitan. It's because I like the region where it's spoken and because I have only a French-Provençal dictionnary. However I don't know if there are differences between it and "true" occitan.)


As far as I learnt, some of the typical features of the Provençal variant of Occitan are
- the sound lh is replaced by a y sound (more similar to French then)
- the final consonants are often mute
- there is a certain degree of nazalization of vowels
- the v is pronounced v, rather than b.
- in maritime provençal the diphtong ue is pronounced as a closed o, like French eu in feu.

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Evil Weasel
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Postby Evil Weasel » 2006-11-06, 2:22

Ah cool, es meme plus come lo francés e alora meme plus facile. Pasmens ai problema...podì pas prononciar los mòts. Falera aprenar aquò.

(Pichòt question: podas comprendre aiçò?)
*English*

Français (Used every day)

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Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)

Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)



Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Postby FiliusLunae » 2006-11-06, 7:43

Adieu.
Ieu parli un pauc d'occitan. Lo pòdi pas parlar fòrça ben perqué es pas una lenga que parle totes los jorns. Tanben lo comprèni sens problèmas perqué parli d'autras lengas latinas. Coma pòdes veire, escrivi amb una grafia mai lengadociana. :P

M'agradariá fòrça que parlèssem, o en aqueste cas, que escriguèssem en occitan. De fach, sabi pas se lo coneisses, mas ieu farai una trabucada a l'occitan per lo jòc de trabucadas que fasèm a Unilang. :)
Ditz-me... perqué t'interessas per l'occitan?
D'ont sès originalament?

~FILIUS
My Hebrew journey in pictures — http://instagram.com/filius_lunae

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Postby Evil Weasel » 2006-11-07, 0:57

Perqué? Soi anat a Niça e es fòrça bèla. Volì aprenar la lenga tradicinau de la region, alora la aprenì. Evidentament lo francés es plus utile ailà mai l'ai ja aprenat.

Bòn, soi canadien alora lo parlam pas. Mai ai aprenì fòrça de lengas inutiles (come lo mannés e lo gallés). Lo provençau es pas diferent.

(Volì pas esser marrit aici mai utilisas pas de pronoms. Pensì qu'en occitan non utilisan que lo vèrbe.)
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Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)

Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)



Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Postby Soassae » 2006-11-07, 16:51

Evil Weasel wrote:Pichòt question: podas comprendre aiçò?


òc :wink:

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Postby Evil Weasel » 2006-11-07, 17:29

Òc...hé, un dei mòts que vau jamai oblidar. :wink:
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Français (Used every day)

Cymraeg (Embarrassing)

Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)

Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)



Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Postby Erol » 2007-01-19, 0:03

In middle ages Occitan was more popular than french. Especially troubador literature was very strong & it affected other parts of Western Europe originated by the influences of Anatolian troubadors (asiklar) of Turkey. So this language was called mostly Provencal , rarely Occitan then , because it was that particular dialect that made it famous .

Once this language was a major power house , it really is not just an obscure minority language. The status of it today unfortunately became this way, due to the political games that happened in its & her people's history.

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Postby culúrien » 2007-03-10, 23:02


Ieu vòli pas aprene l'Occitan (vòli aprene walon :twisted: ) mas pòdi escriure un pauc. Cómeti bravament d'engandas :oops: Estudièri l'occitan quand m'agrada las lenguas romanas bravament :P Ara estúdii sols l'Espanhòl e lo Catalan! (e lo Finlandés e lo Suèc).

Ara scriurai aicí mai sovent ;)

Vostrà amiga (que parli pas força ben l'Occitan :lol: )
استیسی

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Evil Weasel
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Postby Evil Weasel » 2007-05-02, 16:03

Ops! Dei gents escrivon aicí e sabiái pas. De tote manieras, escrive pas força ben e fala utilisar diccionari por escriure tots meis posts.
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Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)

Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)



Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Postby martapiqs » 2007-09-09, 22:11

Bon jorn a totes!

ieu ai pas escrit la lengua occitana dempuei des annadas, e tot ara ai o portugues dins la testa, doncas non fai pas mai que m'enganar. Sou catalana, entau tamben fiqui de mots catalans dins lo meu occitan...

Aprenderi lo lenguadocian l'an 1999 entre Catalunya e Tolosa :D

A leu!

Marta

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filius, ont ets?

Postby martapiqs » 2007-09-09, 22:12

Filius,

ont moras, a California? Ieu sou entre Santa Cruz e Berkeley :D

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Postby greg-fr » 2007-09-10, 12:20

Bonjour et excusez mon français : je ne sais pas écrire en occitan. J'espère pouvoir m'y mettre un peu grâce à ce salon. Ce que je trouve très intéressant dans les langues d'Oc (outre leur beauté) c'est la grande diversité linguistique, la richesse des (petites et grandes) variations qui (paradoxalement ?) renforcent l'impression d'unité linguistique, du moins pour moi qui ne sait pas parler occitan. Partagez-vous le même sentiment ?

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Postby Trapy » 2007-09-10, 21:16

Bien, je monterai le <<band>> et commencer a` l'apprendre.

Mais, est-ce qu'on a` les outils? C'est bien qu'on a trouve la litterature, mais sauf que ceci: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitan et http://home.unilang.org/wiki3/index.php/Occitan_months , est-ce qu'on a trouve de plus?

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Trapy
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Postby Trapy » 2007-09-11, 18:00

I found the Occitan Wikipedia:

http://oc.wikipedia.org/

And the file on occitan:

http://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitan

I reccommend just reading this, if you know french, and absorbing it like a sponge.

extra link: http://perso.orange.fr/babel-site/occitan2.html

Maybe soon we can have a lesson set up to teach ourselves? lol.

phrases: http://www.provenceweb.fr/f/occitan/lexique.htm

edit: found this on their site:

La nòrma de l'escòla dau Pò trobèt un usatge majoritari dins l'occitan escrich de las Valadas Occitanas, entre los ans 1970 e 1990. Dempuei la fin dels ans 1990, la nòrma classica es majoritària. La revista cisalpenca Occitània Viva / Ousitanio Vivo accèpta solament la nòrma classica e la nòrma de l'Escòla dau Pò.

D'autras grafias an existit dins las Valadas Occitanas durant lo sègle XX, mas son fòrça minoritàrias encuei. La nòrma mistralenca es utilizaa per l'associacion Combascura [Coumboscuro]. S'es vist de "grafias fonematicas" qu'utilizavan de grafèmas non tradicionals en occitan coma k o w. Enfin, i a agut de grafias italianizaas.


La forme de l’école de Poe tribut une utilisation major dans l’occitan écrite de les Valadon Occitans, entre les années 1970 et 1990. Depuis la fin de les années 1990, la forme classique est la majorité. La retourne de l’occitan vive / Ousitan Vive accepte sole la forme classique et la forme de l’école de Poe

D’autres orthographes ont existé dans les Valadon Occitan dans le siècle XX, mais sa force minorité écrasée. La forme mistralienne est utilise pour l’association combascura. C’est voyance des « orthographes phonétique » qu’ils utilisent des orthographes qui ne sont traditionnel pas en occitan comme k o w. Enfin, ils ont ajute des orthographes italiennes.


So, should we be using the classic form, since that is what they say they are using mostly now?
Last edited by Trapy on 2007-09-12, 19:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Trapy
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Postby Trapy » 2007-09-11, 21:32

Conjugation on -ar verbs:

I believe this is in the classical, non provencal form, however.
Parlar (to speak / Parler)

Ieu Parli (I speak, Je parle)
Tu Parlas (You speak, tu parles)
El/Ela Parla (he / She speaks , Il/Elle Parle)
Nosautres/Nosautras/Nos Parlam (We Speak, Nous Parlons)
Vosautres/Vosautras/Vos Parlatz (You (pl.) Speak, Vous Parlez)
Eles/Elas Parlan (They speak, Ils / Elles Parlent)

Ieu parli Occitan
I speak Occitan / Je Parle Occitan



Editing this post to keep from quadruple posting:
found the root of my favorite french word in provencal: vouei
can you guess what it is in french? (ouais)!!!

EDIT: What is claimed to be the most famous Occitan insitute:

http://ieo.oc.free.fr/

Goign to contact them and find out where they have free lessons online, etc.

modern Provencal:

http://www.felibrige.org/spip.php?rubrique7

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Evil Weasel
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Postby Evil Weasel » 2007-10-02, 22:26

There's a good site somewhere but I can't seem to re-find it, it has massive conjugaison tables. If you search Freelang you can download a dictionary.
*English*

Français (Used every day)

Cymraeg (Embarrassing)

Gaelg (Worse than embarrassing)

Gaidhlig (So atrociously awful it's comical)



Haven't learned but understand tidbits of: Cornish, Irish, Breton, Gaulish, Romance languages (esp. Occitan, Spanish, Italian, langues d'oeil).

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Postby greg-fr » 2007-10-03, 10:16

Trapy wrote:Ieu parli Occitan
I speak Occitan / Je Parle Occitan

Je crois que les glossonymes ne prennent pas de majuscule en occitan (à vérifier), ni en français dailleurs. D'autre part l'emploi du pronom personnel n'est pas nécessaire comme en français ; c'est-à-dire que ieu parli occitan signifie moi, je parle occitan et non *je parle occitan.

Un groupe important de langues occitanes (appelé gascon ou béarnais) se distingue des autres grands groupes (provençal, languedocien etc) non pas par l'emploi du pronom personnel (à l'instar du français) mais par l'utilisation d'une particule affirmative précédant toute affirmation : que.
    gasconoccitanfrançais
    que parli occitanparli occitanje parle occitan
    que cantascantastu chantes
    que minjamanjail mange.




Trapy wrote:Ieu Parli (I speak, Je parle)
Tu Parlas (You speak, tu parles)
El/Ela Parla (he / She speaks , Il/Elle Parle)
Nosautres/Nosautras/Nos Parlam (We Speak, Nous Parlons)
Vosautres/Vosautras/Vos Parlatz (You (pl.) Speak, Vous Parlez)
Eles/Elas Parlan (They speak, Ils / Elles Parlent)

En fait, je crois qu'il y a déplacement de l'accent tonique à la 3e personne du pluriel. Ainsi :
    gasconoccitanfrançais
    qu'aimiaimij'aime
    qu'aimasaimastu aimes
    qu'aimaaimail aime
    qu'aimamaimamnous aimons
    qu'aimatzaimatzvous aimez
    qu'àimanàimanils aiment.

À vérifier auprès de nos amis occitanophones. :D




Je vous recommande ce site.


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