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Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-20, 2:33
by księżycowy
Abkhaz Newspaper Reader links:
http://www.dunwoodypress.com/products/-/4 [book]
http://www.dunwoodypress.com/products/-/5 [audio]
There you are! :wink:

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-21, 20:30
by Petrovitch
Are there any good resources for Chechen grammar?
It's the only thing I can't find much on.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-22, 0:42
by księżycowy
In English, Russian, or both? (Based on your profile, I'm guessing either :P )

There are PLENTY of resources in Russian. I could point out a few if you wanted.

As for English, pretty much just the reader I pointed out a few posts ago. Though Dunwoody also has a grammar sketch and a verb conjugation book as well.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-22, 8:29
by Limagne
If you can read French, then Parlons Tchétchène-Ingouche might interest you as it deals with the grammar of the language(s) and contains a culture guide as well as a phrasebook. I have a copy of it myself and it seems to be fairly comprehensive. At least it covers all the basic grammar rules and the explanations are quite easy to follow.

Some of the Dunwoody press readers have brief grammar sections too. I don't know if it's the case of their Chechen reader though.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-22, 11:17
by księżycowy
Limagne wrote:Some of the Dunwoody press readers have brief grammar sections too. I don't know if it's the case of their Chechen reader though.

I'm not sure myself. From the description of the Chechen Reader, it seems like it's more like a textbook and not exactly like their other Newspaper Readers. I'll hopefully find out in a week or two.

Good add by the way. :wink:

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-24, 10:34
by Limagne

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-24, 13:33
by księżycowy
So, I ordered the Chechen Reader from Dunwoody Press. If anyone is interested, I can post my impressions of the book and audio when I get them. :wink:

Next up on the order list is the Abkhaz Newspaper Reader. :yep:

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-25, 8:23
by Qaanaaq
Yes please :) I was thinking to order the two books myself, but I found them pretty pricey and wasn’t sure of the content…

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-25, 10:53
by księżycowy
Well, lucky for you, I decided to be the guinea pig and buy them both. :lol:

Usually the Newspaper Readers are good, but they are for intermediate and above. For me, I was mostly looking for something with sound, as the Self-Tutor doesn't have audio to go with it (as I'm sure you know).

The Chechen Reader I just decided to buy on a whim, and hope it is good. But most of the stuff I have from Dunwoody is quite good, so I'm not too worried (I have some other textbooks from them).

Here's hoping!

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-26, 20:00
by Limagne
I'm looking forward to reading your review too !

It's a real shame it costs an arm and a leg to have those Dunwoody Press readers shipped to Europe :(

I have used their Persian Fiction Reader two years ago, and I must say that it has been the most important book I have ever used in my whole language-learning life :D

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-06-26, 22:52
by księżycowy
Yeah, Dunwoody has some great resources, but it's exactly what you said, it costs an arm and a leg. I can only imagine what it costs to ship their stuff to Europe, it's expensive enough for me here in the US! :shock:

I hope to get the Readers sometime this week, so I'll post a review* after I've looked it over. :wink:

*I use this term loosely.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-02, 23:47
by księżycowy
I'm happier then a clam! My Chechen Reader came this past weekend! :D

So, now that I've explored the pages, I'll share my thoughts/opinions/etc with you guys.

I'll get the bad news out of the way first. But don't worry there isn't much, and some of it can be easily dealt with. Firstly, the reading selections that are given are not graded for difficulty. Thus they are natural, authentic samples of the language and can be difficult to work with when first starting off. So a bit of page flipping is required as you learn some of the grammar for reading one in "lesson 10," for example. Also, the vocabulary for some of the readings can be a bit skimpy. Not all of the words in a reading will not be found in the vocabulary either, but they can be found in the grammar and vocabulary lists of later sections. (I've also got a copy of the Chechen-English English-Chechen Dictionary coming to help with this fact. Yes, the cost if outrageous. I got a cheaper used copy). And one last complaint: for whatever reason, the audio cd that came with it is out of order.

But enough of the flaws, now it's time to get into what makes this book great, despite the flaws! The grammar sections are great! They start with easy topics, like nouns, and work up to the more complex. The verb and noun conjugations/declensions are explained clearly and concisely. Again, much as the reading selections, the grammar sections are not necessarily graded to the reading selections. Also the audio is very well put together and clear (aside from it being out of order, for me anyway :P ) There are also exercises that are graded to the grammar sections. And an answer key is provided in the back of the book.

My basic impression of this book is the following:
If you don't mind sticking primarily to the grammar explanations and vocabulary lists in the beginning of your study, then this textbook will do well to teach anyone Chechen. Then going back over the early reading sections after you're in deep with the grammar, you would probably get more out of studying the readings. Though using the audio and readings for pronunciation purposes from the start would be worthwhile.

Oh, one last thing, there is not a ton about conversational phrases, nor is there anything about the alphabet or phonology. So a few online supplements would be recommended.

Overall I give the book an easy 8.5/10. Despite a few serious flaws. :wink:

P.S. This textbook is apparently meant to be used in a class setting, so that might have something to do with it's layout, but I think it is quite workable as a DIY text as well.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-03, 13:38
by księżycowy
Now, I have an orthography/pronunciation question.

For the most part I get how the Chechen Cyrillic alphabet works, but I have a lingering question, which I've attempted to check online but the sources seem to either contradict themselves, or just not clearly explain the problem.

My issue is with the three contrast system of most Chechen consonants. From what I think I understand it goes something like this:
т - тт - т1
/t~th/ - /t:/ - /t'/

Or in other words:
т - тт - т1
plain - long - glottalized

Some sources seem to confuse (?) the fact that т1 is glottalized and not aspirated. Or am I confusing things and it is aspirated?

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-03, 15:20
by E}{pugnator
I've read your remarks on the Chechen Reader. It is indeed different from the Newspaper Readers series. Now, some of the flaws might pose several difficulties to a fresh beginner, but is there an option?

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-03, 15:32
by księżycowy
Any option for another textbook/resource? No, not in English anyway.

However, I really feel that they're not that big of flaws. I've been mainly looking over the grammar and vocabulary sections and they seem fine. It's just the readings that are a bit advanced to start with. I don't want to give the wrong impression.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-04, 11:01
by E}{pugnator
What about Russian or German? Any textbooks with audio?

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-04, 11:06
by księżycowy
I know there are a few textbooks in Russian. I'm not sure if they have audio, and I'd have to search around to see if I could find them again.

I have no idea if there are any resources in German or not. Never really looked.

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-07-07, 1:41
by księżycowy
księżycowy wrote:My issue is with the three contrast system of most Chechen consonants. From what I think I understand it goes something like this:
т - тт - т1
/t~th/ - /t:/ - /t'/

Or in other words:
т - тт - т1
plain - long - glottalized

Some sources seem to confuse (?) the fact that т1 is glottalized and not aspirated. Or am I confusing things and it is aspirated?

The Chechen dictionary and Wikipedia seem to say that it is a pharyngealized consonant. WTF! :x

But in IPA it's always represented by /p'/ so I'm going with glottalization! I'll listen to the first text and see if there is any pharyngealized vowels there after.

And in other news, Chechen here I come! :partyhat:
I'm not sure if I'll post notes here, or if I'll make a new thread in the "other languages" section, but either way it's party time!

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-08-18, 21:37
by Petrovitch
I wish I had enough money for that Chechen Reader, it looks so useful!

Re: Chechen

Posted: 2012-08-19, 13:09
by księżycowy
Petrovitch wrote:I wish I had enough money for that Chechen Reader, it looks so useful!

It really is. They could have edited it a bit better, but it's still a great intro to Chechen for the non-Russian speaker.