Jamtlandic (Jamsk'/Jamske)

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Johanna
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Postby Johanna » 2007-08-04, 21:55

Hunef wrote:Du skulle nog ha problem med att hålla isär t.ex. jämtska och Lidmål (som talas i norra Jämtland av ättlingar till nordtröndska 1700-talskolonisatörer), inte sant? :lol:

Antagligen, jag hör ju dem aldrig, jämtar är sorgligt underrepresenterade i media som alla utanför stockholmsområdet...

Skillnaden mellan småländska och västgötska är generellt att så fort de uttalar r så är de skorrande medan våra bara är det i början av ord och när de är långa mellan vokaler ;) Sedan är satsmelodin lite annorlunda med men det är väl inget man tänker på om man inte har en västgöte och en smålänning bredvid varandra iofs... Så använde min pojkväns farföräldrar (från Oskarshamn) inte femininum heller medan så gott som alla i deras ålder där jag växte upp har kvar det. Deras imperfektformer var å andra sidan lite mer lika bokmålets (och danskans gissar jag på).
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Complete Alphabet

Postby Adfleekto Asashchee » 2007-08-05, 3:51

Aa Áá Bb Dd Ðð Ee Ëë Éé Ff Gg Hh Ii Íí Jj Kk Ll Mm Nn
Oo Óó Pp Rr Ss Tt Uu Úú Vv Yy Ÿÿ Ýý Ęę Ææ Øø Œœ


A (hard vowel):
Pronunced [ɑˑ]: dag [dɑˑɣ] n. 'day'
Pronunced [a]: Gakk! [gakː] v. imp. sg. 'Walk!'
Pronunced [æˑ]: karr [kʰæˑɾ] n. 'man'
Pronunced [æ]: mark [mæʂk] n. 'worm'

Á (hard vowel):
Pronunced [oː]: hárð [hoːɽ] adj. 'hard'
Pronunced [ɔ]: háttlegjen [ˈhɔtː`ˌleɪːn] adj. 'pleasant, nice'

B:
Pronunced [b]: beðlenn [ˈbeˑ`ˌɽən] n. 'patience' (only found in North Norse, from ONN biðlund)
Pronunced [bː]: stubb' [stʰɞ`ɞbː] n. 'stump'

D:
Pronunced [d]: dętt' [dɛ`ɛtː] v. 'fall heavily'
Pronunced [dː]: rædd [rædː] adj. 'afraid'
Pronunced [ð]: slada [l̥aˑ`ða] n. 'sledge'

Ð:
Pronunced [ ]: bíð' [biː`i] v. 'wait'
Pronunced [ɣ]: bouð [bɞɵːɣ] v. imperf. 'offered'
Pronunced [ʋ]: souð [sɞɵːʋ] n. 'sheep'

E (soft vowel):
Pronunced [eˑ]: len [leˑn] adj. 'mild, smooth'
Pronunced [e]: vet [ʋetː] n. 'wit, understanding'

Ë (hard vowel):
Pronunced [eˑ]: skëkin [skʰeˑ`tʃɪn] adj. 'shaken'

É (soft vowel):
Pronunced [jeː]: éling [jeː`ɽɪŋ] n. 'small storm'
Pronunced [je]: létt [jetː] adj. 'light, low-weighted'
Pronunced [eː]: kné [kneː] n. 'knee'
Pronunced [e]: tétt [tʃʰetː] adj. 'dense'
(This vowel was earlier pronunced [ɪeː] which explains the examples above. This is in common with the dialects in Trøndelag, Norway. It's also the Icelandic pronunciation of the same letter.)

F:
Pronunced [f]: fœðnisk [føː´nɪsk] adj. 'very old'
Pronunced [fː]: nøff [nøfː] int. 'oink' (pig's sound)
(The long 'f' mainly for interjections and borrowed words from Low German.)

G:
Pronunced [g]: gás [goːs] n. 'goose'
Pronunced [ggː]: vęgg [ʋɛgː] n. 'wall'
Pronunced [ɣ]: vaga [ʋaˑ`ɣa] v. 'weigh'
Pronunced [j] (in fr. of soft vow.): geit [jeɪːt] n. 'goat'
Pronunced [ ]: tókug [tʰuː`kɵ] adj. 'crazy'
(Note the special combinations gj-, -ngj- and -ggj- which are [j], [dʒ] and [dʒː], respectively. Examples: gjara [jaˑ`ɾa] v. 'do'; tingjeð [tʰɪɲ´dʒə] n. def. 'the thing'; vęggjen [ʋɛdʒː´ən] n. def. 'the wall'.)

H:
Pronunced [h]: huvuð [hɵˑ`vɵ] n. 'head'
Pronunced [ ]: hvonn [ʋɞnː] pron. 'every, each'
(Note the special combination hj- pronunced [j]. Example: hjęrt' [jæ`æʈː] n. 'heart'.)

I (soft vowel):
Pronunced [ɪˑ]: rivin [rɪˑ`vɪn] adj. 'torn'
Pronunced [ɪ]: kipp' [tʃʰɪ`ɪpː] v. 'put on [shoes] quickly'
(Note that in words of the type -iCi-, e.g. rivin adj. 'torn', ridið v. sup. 'ridden' etc., the pronunciation [-ɪˑCɪ-] is highly normalised. Today, only a few dialects (western ones) have this pronunciation. Most of the actual dialects instead have [-eˑCɪ-], [-eˑCe-] etc.)

Í (soft vowel):
Pronunced [iː]: ís [iːs] n. 'ice'
Pronunced [i]: fínt [fint] adv. 'elegantly'
(Actually, there's a difference in pronunciation quality here; the short [i] is in quality between the long [iː] and the short [ɪ] for i.)

J:
Pronunced [j]: jamn [jamn] adj. 'even, smooth'
(Assimilated in various ways in combinations like gj, hj, kj, lj etc. and thus making the preceding consonant appear soft or silent.)

K:
Pronunced [k]: káll' [kʰɔ`ɔlː] v. 'call'
Pronunced [kː]: bękk [bɛkː] n. 'creek'
Pronunced [tʃ] (in fr. of soft vow.): kær [tʃʰeːɾ] adj. 'in love, beloved'
(Note that the special combination -kkj- is pronunced [tʃː]. Example: bękkjen [bɛtʃːən] n. def. 'the creek'.)

L:
Pronunced [l]: litteð [lɪtː´ə] adv. 'little'
Pronunced [lː]: fjęll [fjɛlː] n. 'mountain'
Pronunced [ɽ]: hol [hɞˑɽ] n. 'hole'
Pronunced [l̥]: kállt [kʰɔl̥t] adv. 'coldly'
(Note that in many combinations with voiceless consonants, l often gets assimilated to form a voiceless l. Examples: sleip [l̥eɪːp] adj. 'slippery'; nętl' [nɛ`l̥ː] n. 'nettle'. One also has assimilations where the product is a retroflex consonant. Example: bold [bɞɖː] n. 'boil, abscess'.)

M:
Pronunced [m]: møy [møʏː] n. 'maid'
Pronunced [mː]: kamm [kʰamː] n. 'comb'

N:
Pronunced [n]: nœgj' [nø`øʏː] v. 'satisfy'
Pronunced [nː]: tann [tʰanː] n. 'tooth'

O (hard vowel):
Pronunced [ɞˑ]: kol [kʰɞˑɽ] n. 'coal'
Pronunced [ɞɵˑ]: hog [hɞɵˑɣ] n. 'mind'
Pronunced [ɞ]: monn [mɞnː] n. 'mouth'

Ó (hard vowel):
Pronunced [uː]: vón' [ʋu`uːn] v. 'hope'
Pronunced [ʊ]: ónn [ʊnː] adj. 'evil, bad'

P:
Pronunced [p]: pusu [pʰɵˑsɵ] n. 'bag'
Pronunced [pː]: sopp [sɞpː] n. 'mushroom'
Pronunced [f]: sleipt [l̥eft] adj. neut. 'slippery'

R:
Pronunced [r]: rouð [rɞɵːv] adj. 'red'
Pronunced [ɾ]: hér [heːɾ] adv. 'here'
Pronunced [ɾː]: skarrug [skʰæɾː`ɵ] adj. 'slightly sick'
Pronunced [ʂ]: mork [mɞʂk] adj. 'dark'
(Note that r often gets assimilated in consonant combinations such as rs, rt, rkj etc. Examples: fors [fɞʂː] n. 'rapids'; knort [kn̥ɞʈː] n. 'gnat'; męrkj' [mæ`æʂː] v. 'mark'. Also note that [r] and [ɾ] are allophones, i.e., a jamtlander consider them being pronunced the same so that in practice one does not have to separate them.)

S:
Pronunced [s]: síg' [si`iːɣ] v. 'sink gently down'
Pronunced [sː]: hvoss [ʋɞsː] adj. 'sharp'
(Note that s becomes assimilated in some consonant combinations, e.g., ls, rs (see S), sj etc. Examples: hals [hæˑʂ] n. 'throat, neck'; sjęlv [ʃæɽv] pron. 'self'.)

T:
Pronunced [t]: tóm [tʰuːm] adj. 'empty'
Pronunced [tː]: vott [ʋɞtː] n. 'glove'
(Note that t becomes assimilated in the consonant combination tj. Examples: tjudur [tʃʰɵˑ`ðɵɾ] n. 'capercaillie'.)

U (hard vowel):
Pronunced [ɵˑ]: tulu [tʰɵˑ`ɽɵ] v. 'endure, tolerate'
Pronunced [ɵ]: snaskug [snas`kɵ] adj. 'dirty'
Pronunced [ʊ]: um [ʊmː] prep. 'about'
(Note that in words of the type -uCu-, e.g. tulu v. 'endure', udu n. 'eddy' etc., the pronunciation [-ɵˑCɵ-] is highly normalised and represents the common 18th century pronunciation. Today, only a few dialects have this pronunciation. The actual dialects instead have [-ɞˑCə-], [-oˑCɵ-], [-ɔˑCɔ-] etc. Also note that in East Jämtland, the adjective ending -ug is [-ə].)

Ú (hard vowel):
Pronunced [ʉː]: brúðr [bɾʉːɾ] n. 'bride'
Pronunced [ɵ]: húnnreð [hɵnː´ɾə] num. 'hundred'

V:
Pronunced [ʋ] (word initial): vęðr [ʋæˑɾ] n. 'weather'
Pronunced [v]: lava [laˑ`va] v. 'live'
Pronunced [ ] (word final): tav [tʰɑˑ] prep. 'of'
(Note that v gets silent in many consonant combinations, e.g., vt, vd etc. Examples: ęvter [ɛtː`əɾ] prep. 'after'; havd [hadː] v. sup. 'had'.)

Y (soft vowel):
Pronunced [ʏˑ]: byrin [bʏˑɾʏn] adj. 'carried'
Pronunced [ʏ]: fynnen [fʏnː`ən] adj. 'found'
(Note that in words of the type -yCi-, e.g. byrin adj. 'carried', stylið v. sup. 'stolen' etc., the pronunciation [-ʏˑCʏ-] is highly normalised. Today, only a few dialects (western ones) have this pronunciation. Most of the actual dialects instead have [-øˑCɪ-], [-øˑCe-] etc.)

Ÿ (hard vowel):
Pronunced [ʏˑ]: skÿtin [skʰʏˑ`tʏn] adj. 'shot'
Pronunced [ʏ]: gÿtið [gʏtː`ʏ] v. sup. 'had to, been forced to'
(Note that in words of the type -ÿCi-, e.g. skÿtin adj. 'shot', kÿmið v. sup. 'come' etc., the pronunciation [-ʏˑCʏ-] is highly normalised. Today, only a few dialects (western ones) have this pronunciation. Most of the actual dialects instead have [-øˑCɪ-], [-øˑCe-] etc.)

Ę (soft vowel):
Pronunced [ɛˑ]: tęv [tʰɛˑv] n. 'bad smell'
Pronunced [ɛ]: bękk [bɛkː] n. 'creek'
Pronunced [æˑ]: fęrðmann [ˈfæˑɽˌmanː] n. 'traveling merchant'
Pronunced [æ]: hęlvd [hæɖː] n. 'half'

Æ (soft vowel):
Pronunced [eː]: kær [tʃʰeːɾ] adj. 'in love'
Pronunced [æ]: rædd [rædː] adj. 'afraid'

Ø (soft vowel):
Pronunced [øˑ]: køn [tʃʰøˑn] n. 'gender'
Pronunced [ø]: øks [øks] n. 'axe'

Π(soft vowel):
Pronunced [øː]: rœðing [røː`ɪŋ] n. '[the act of] speeching' (*)
Pronunced [ø]: dœmd [dømd] adj. 'convicted'
Pronunced [øʏː] (in front of g): hœgr [høʏːɣ´(ə)ɾ] adv. 'right' (direction)
(*) The noun 'speech', rather than the act of speeching itself, would be rœðning. Note that the action of a verb with stem S is the noun Sing, while the result of the action of a verb is the noun Sning. Example: Consider the verb byggj' [bʏ`ʏdʒː] v. 'build'. The stem is bygg. The action, that is the work, of building is thus bygging [bʏdʒː`ɪŋ] while the result of building, that is a physical 'building', is byggning [bʏgː`nɪŋ].

EI (soft diphthong):
Pronunced [eɪː]: reið [reɪː] adj. 'angry'
Pronunced [e]: greitt [gɾetː] adj. neut. 'alright, okey'

OU (hard diphthong):
Pronunced [ɞɵː]: snouð [snɞɵːv] adj. 'bare'
Pronunced [ɞ]: houst [hɞst] n. 'autumn'

ØY (soft diphthong):
Pronunced [øʏː]: røykj' [rø`øʏtʃ] v. 'smoke'
Pronunced [ø]: døypt [døft] v. sup. 'baptised; dipped'
Pronunced [øː]: røyr [hɞst] n. 'pipe, tube, valve'

That´s the complete pronounciation guide!
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Fluent:English(Newzild)
Intermediate:None
Basic:Japanese, German
Learning:Brazilian Portuguese

Last edited Adfleekto Asashchee on 12 Apr 2006 21:03; edited 11321431 times in total

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Adfleekto Asashchee
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Basic Phrases in Jamtlandic!

Postby Adfleekto Asashchee » 2007-08-05, 4:12

I will use IPA and Hunef´s spelling for this! (this is taken from Hunef´s posts and typed with an altered swedish keyboard settings)

Hej-Hello
É heej t ...-my name is...
Houtt heit u?-what is your name?
Hár eið ne?-how are you?
Bære grett, n dú rá?-I´m fine, and you?
Attút te rákes!-Nice to meet you.
Takk-Thank you

Not sure on all of it I tried to spell them correctly but there may be mistakes.
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Native:English(Newzild)

Fluent:English(Newzild)

Intermediate:None

Basic:Japanese, German

Learning:Brazilian Portuguese


Last edited Adfleekto Asashchee on 12 Apr 2006 21:03; edited 11321431 times in total

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Re: Complete Alphabet

Postby Hunef » 2007-08-05, 22:41

Adfleekto Asashchee wrote:That´s the complete pronounciation guide!

Except that the orthography is outdated. :roll:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Postby Bokkjen » 2007-08-08, 18:23

Hunef wrote:Vad har du för uttal för "óg"!? Så vitt jag vet så är stavningen og eftersom det är ett öppet å-ljud (a-ljud i nån enstaka dialekt) snarare än trångt o-ljud. Akut accent betecknar i min (liksom i svenskans) ortografi ett trängre uttal.

Bah, det var mitt försök på huneftiskt skriftspråk :lol:

Skrivet du òg?

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Postby Hunef » 2007-08-08, 19:06

Bokkjen wrote:
Hunef wrote:Vad har du för uttal för "óg"!? Så vitt jag vet så är stavningen og eftersom det är ett öppet å-ljud (a-ljud i nån enstaka dialekt) snarare än trångt o-ljud. Akut accent betecknar i min (liksom i svenskans) ortografi ett trängre uttal.

Bah, det var mitt försök på huneftiskt skriftspråk :lol:

Skrivet du òg?

nej, jag skriver og. vad ska jag med tecknet ò till? Nynorska har òg 'också' för att inte blanda ihop med og 'och'. (Och svenska skriver ju 'ock' vs 'och' trots samma ursprung.) Såna stupida regler har inte jag. Om två ord råkar stavas på samma sätt så får så vara fallet. I jämtska stavar vi og 'och' OCH 'också'. :lol:

(Och du, g:et i og uttalas av vissa jämtar. Jag har tappat bort exemplet, men det finns en ljudinspelning här nånstans som bevisar det jag säger: http://norms.uit.no/. I transkriptionen skriver de åg. Texten finns också i Bengt Pamps Svenska dialekter.)
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Postby Bokkjen » 2007-08-08, 19:10

Jag trodde du använde den nynorska stavningen och jag fick ´´``` fel. :yep:

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Postby Boingy88 » 2007-09-07, 2:47

I've never even heard of this language! I like it though. Hunef: Assuming the lessons and the location you're in I assume you speak Jamtlandic? And about the 2 orthographies what's up with them? Why are they're 2?

Also I was wondering how many people spoke the language and which orthography is used today to write Jamtlandic. Looking forward to replies! εĭз
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Postby Boingy88 » 2007-09-07, 2:52

Well if some one gave me a text in this language without telling what language it is I would've guessed Swedish. But then when I saw the letter 'æ' I realised that it wasn't Swedish because Swedish doesn't have the letter 'æ'.

But is the language related to Swedish? Because it looks alot like it except for a few of the letters. εĭз
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Postby Johanna » 2007-09-07, 13:42

It's a Scandianvian dialect spoken in Jämtland, a Swedish province. When you're talking about dialects in Sweden and Norway you can't really call them either Swedish or Norwegian, at least not when you talk about the ones close to the border in their genuine forms. Actually the two languages aren't really separate languages but rather a lot of dialects within two countries and with a total of three written standards (Norway: Bokmål and Nynorsk, Sweden: Rikssvenska).
The alphabets are the same basically, only difference is that Swedish Ä ä and Ö ö looks like this in the two Norwegian standards: Æ æ and Ø ø. Both Swedish and Norwegian use Å å.

Hunef is simply trying to give his dialect an orthography of it's own.
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Postby Hunef » 2007-09-07, 19:35

Thank you for your interest, Boingy88.

I speak Jamtlandic, though there aren't that many left to speak it with.

I am constantly refining my orthography. There's an "academy" which has chosen their own orthography, but the fact is not even the members of the academy follow it. And they only have recommendations, not well-defined rules.

There are 110,000 people living in the province of Jämtland. Of them maybe 95,000 live in traditionally Jamtlandic speaking areas, though 50,000 of them in the capital city where Jamtlandic isn't used at all. So, maybe 2/3 of the remaining part - or 30,000 - can actively speak it to some degree. (Though probably noone uses proper Jamtlandic to 100% these days.) Just to give you a rough figure.

There is no official (or unofficial for that matter) orthography for Jamtlandic. Yet.
Last edited by Hunef on 2007-09-07, 19:53, edited 1 time in total.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Postby Hunef » 2007-09-07, 19:39

Jamtlandic resembles Norwegian more than Swedish. Probably because Jämtland was colonized from the west in the early Viking age. But during the last 150 years or so it has been heavily affected by Standard Swedish, of course.

It has been proven that Jamtlandic during Vikings age was probably the most archaic variety of Norse. The jamtlander Bo Oscarsson (a member of the "academy" for Jamtlandic) writes:
    "Runforskaren Henrik Williams i Uppsala har konstaterat att runstensmästaren inte var norrman, inte heller svensk, utan jamt och att han ristat minst tio runstenar för att få fram den ådagalagda skickligheten på frösöstenen."
    (Source.)
I have personally contacted Henrik Williams and he basically said that Viking age Jamtlandic was it's own variety of Norse (not West nor East), and that due to some striking archaisms.
These still exist in some sense, though not a archaisms any more. To be concrete, Jamtlandic is the only Norse dialect to have the combination (~ OWN ) together with a dropped unstressed r (~ OEN -R).
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2007-09-07, 19:44

This was a very interesting thread to read, even if some points, as Hunef himself said, are ‘outdated’ by now. :)
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Postby Boingy88 » 2007-09-07, 20:58

WOW! That's amazing indeed. So I assume that there's not that much ( if any ) material written in it using any of the unofficial orthographies? And what about new papers? Thanks for the info!

Found it very interesting indeed and I hope that the language some how makes a come back with an official orthography ASAP. Keep posting more of what you know on it here! εĭз
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Postby Boingy88 » 2007-09-07, 21:01

Well knowing that makes alot more sense! εĭз
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Postby Hunef » 2007-09-07, 21:34

Some is written, but unfortunately people don't follow their own (or other's) recommendations all the way. And personally I haven't been writing any publishable stuff.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

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Postby Boingy88 » 2007-09-08, 0:52

WOW! So what about school there? εĭз
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Postby Hunef » 2007-09-08, 13:19

Boingy88 wrote:WOW! So what about school there? εĭз

Jamtlandic is taught to some degree in some elementary schools, but only the local variety and not following any orthographical standard.

Dalecarlian, and Elfdalian in general, has come much further in this respect. (A very informative 45 pages long report about this in Swedish available here in pdf format.)
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

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Postby Boingy88 » 2007-09-08, 16:06

OOOOOOH! Cool even though I can't read it it's awesome!εĭз
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Postby Bokkjen » 2007-09-09, 11:48

Hunef wrote: To be concrete, Jamtlandic is the only Norse dialect to have the combination (~ OWN ) together with a dropped unstressed r (~ OEN -R).

thewhatnow? :para:


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