Foreign influence on Azeri

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Wilco
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Foreign influence on Azeri

Postby Wilco » 2009-04-17, 19:29

eskandar wrote:telephone - telefon
cup - stəkan
journal - jurnal
table - stol
chair - stul
pencil - karandaş
bus - avtobus
director - direktor


Quite interesting to see how deep was the Russian influence on Azerbaijani : I would have expected direktor and telefon, but stəkan, stol and stul ? That's odd to me, as if those words didn't exist when the Russian came...

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Re: Bakıdan Təbrizə / باکیدان تبریزه (From Baku to Tabriz)

Postby eskandar » 2009-04-17, 19:57

Foreign influence on languages has little to do with adding words that the language previously lacked. For instance, the English word "table" is from French, but that doesn't mean that the early Anglophones didn't have a word for "table" prior to Norman invasion. Instead, words from the dominant or colonial language (in this case, Russian) that are commonly used are often borrowed into the dominated or colonized language (in this case, Azeri) and replace native words, or exist alongside them.
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Re: Bakıdan Təbrizə / باکیدان تبریزه (From Baku to Tabriz)

Postby Zorba » 2009-04-17, 20:10

Quite interesting to see how deep was the Russian influence on Azerbaijani : I would have expected direktor and telefon, but stəkan, stol and stul ? That's odd to me, as if those words didn't exist when the Russian came...


'Karandash' and 'stakan' are words the Russians borrowed from the Turkic languages, not vice versa! These are not Slavic or Indo-European roots.

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Re: Bakıdan Təbrizə / باکیدان تبریزه (From Baku to Tabriz)

Postby eskandar » 2009-04-17, 20:27

Interestingly enough, despite their Turkic origins in Russian, Azeri did in fact borrow "karandaş" and "stəkan" from Russian. That is, Russian originally borrowed something like "ıstıkan" from a Turkic language (not sure which) and turned it into стакан, which Azeri then re-borrowed as stəkan. Similarly, Russian got карандаш from something like "qara daş" or "kara taş" (black stone) and then Azeri re-borrowed it as "karandaş."

A similar process has happened between Persian and Arabic. Persian has a great deal of words from Arabic, but some Arabic words of Persian origin have been re-borrowed into Persian. For instance, the Persian word for elephant ("pil") was borrowed into Arabic as "fil" (as Arabic has no [p]), and then re-borrowed into Persian, giving us the modern Persian word "fil."
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Re: Bakıdan Təbrizə / باکیدان تبریزه (From Baku to Tabriz)

Postby Zorba » 2009-04-17, 20:30

Interesting!

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Lietmotiv » 2009-05-16, 15:11

Wilco wrote:Quite interesting to see how deep was the Russian influence on Azerbaijani : I would have expected direktor and telefon, but stəkan, stol and stul ? That's odd to me, as if those words didn't exist when the Russian came...


Why is it odd? Borrowing is normal in any language, and Azerbaidjan was part of Russia and Soviet Union,so except for the cultural influence,the lingusitic influence was felt as well.

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby kalemiye » 2009-05-17, 20:54

Come on, they even speak Turkish with a sort of Russian accent... the influence of Russian is simply astonishing so I woudn't be surprised by any loanword they could have.
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Lietmotiv » 2009-05-17, 20:59

renata wrote:Come on, they even speak Turkish with a sort of Russian accent... the influence of Russian is simply astonishing so I woudn't be surprised by any loanword they could have.


Same in Moldova,we also speak Romanian with a strong(not sort of) Russian accent,but I believe this is a consequence of the emergence of bilignual people.

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby zhiguli » 2009-05-18, 6:36

just turned up this azeri blog, written in cyrillic:

http://devrimsol.azeriblog.com/

it's so very strange to see anyone writing in cyrillic when it is practically nonexistent on the net and is being phased out in daily life. is it a political statement? a fashion statement?

(edit: the blogger himself explains, here:
http://devrimsol.azeriblog.com/2009/05/ ... ill-azyram)

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Lietmotiv » 2009-05-18, 6:58

zhiguli wrote:just turned up this azeri blog, written in cyrillic:

http://devrimsol.azeriblog.com/

it's so very strange to see anyone writing in cyrillic when it is practically nonexistent on the net and is being phased out in daily life. is it a political statement? a fashion statement?

(edit: the blogger himself explains, here:
http://devrimsol.azeriblog.com/2009/05/ ... ill-azyram)


In the Republic of Azerbaijan, North Azeri now officially uses the Latin alphabet, but the Cyrillic alphabet is also in wide use, while in Iran, South Azeri uses the Perso-Arabic script.

What you show there is a blog or smth and I far as I know that alphabet is in wide use,so the person there is free to use whatever alphabet he wants he wants.

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby zhiguli » 2009-05-18, 7:42

That may be true in real life, but it's practically never used on the internet (do a search for some random Azeri word in Cyrillic if you don't believe me). And so many people can't even be bothered to type with a proper Azeri *Latin* keyboard (which makes web searches all the more fun), so someone would have to go to a lot of trouble to type in Cyrillic. That is all.
And for the record I think it's quite neat that someone is writing in Cyrillic, I never meant to imply that people shouldn't.

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Iratus » 2009-05-18, 16:54

renata wrote:Come on, they even speak Turkish with a sort of Russian accent... the influence of Russian is simply astonishing so I woudn't be surprised by any loanword they could have.


I don't agree with you. Azeri has its own phonetics which hasn't been influenced by Russian at all. Maybe you heard some Russian-speaking Azeri people speaking Turkish with Russian accent. If you begin speaking Azeri I am sure you will have Turkish accent. So, the influence of Russian on Azeri is great without doubt but mostly in vocabulary and not in phonetics.

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby kalemiye » 2009-05-20, 20:58

Iratus wrote:
renata wrote:Come on, they even speak Turkish with a sort of Russian accent... the influence of Russian is simply astonishing so I woudn't be surprised by any loanword they could have.


I don't agree with you. Azeri has its own phonetics which hasn't been influenced by Russian at all. Maybe you heard some Russian-speaking Azeri people speaking Turkish with Russian accent. If you begin speaking Azeri I am sure you will have Turkish accent. So, the influence of Russian on Azeri is great without doubt but mostly in vocabulary and not in phonetics.


If you hear Azeri spoken in Iran or Turkey, and Azeri spoken in Azerbaijan the difference is really clear. Plus, other Azeris, as well as Turks, perceive Baku's accent as having a distinct Russian flavour, not only when it comes to vocabulary.
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Utopist » 2011-12-09, 17:24

I've done some sort of research on this question in the link below.
Azərbaycan dilində alınma sözlər

If you ask me, Iranian Azeri is spoken with a kind of Persian accent. =D
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby kalemiye » 2011-12-09, 18:23

Utopist wrote:I've done some sort of research on this question in the link below.
Azərbaycan dilində alınma sözlər

If you ask me, Iranian Azeri is spoken with a kind of Persian accent. =D


If you ask an Iranian, he will tell you that the Azeri spoken in Azerbaijan has a distinct Russian flavour, especially the one spoken in Baku.

I actually don't think Iranian accent has a Persian accent - if you pay attention to old movies like Arsin mal alan you will realize that they speak very similar to the way Iranian Azeries speak today -, but in terms of vocabulary and grammar its influence is undeniable.
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Utopist » 2011-12-09, 19:06

Anyway I think that there is only one literary form that everyone should base on. :) Guess which? ;)

In fact we Azeris from Azerbaijan feel no Russian flavour in our speech maybe because it doesn't exist at all, excluding some everyday loanwords.
Differences are all caused by the mutual isolation and lack of interaction for 2 ages. :) Still we speak the same language and our southern dialects are similar to Iranian ones (both are "persian-like").
I will post some texts written in dialects tomorrow to demonstrate some features.

Russian influence:
- a little purely Russian vocabulary (mostly in everyday language)
- internationalisms with some features of pronunciation (vowel reduction): avtomat is pronounced as avtamat etc.
- calques (in everyday speech): alınmaq (~succeed), can't remember another one
- that's it :)
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby voron » 2011-12-09, 19:54

kalemiye wrote: if you pay attention to old movies like Arsin mal alan

Wow I used to pass by our musical theatre on a minubus every day and my attention was always attracted by this board advertising the "Arşın mal alan" play, and it always made me think what language the name was in (my guess was French (because of the "mal" part maybe?) and mind you we spell everything with Cyrillic so I couldn't guess by the alphabet). You revealed the truth for me kalemiye! I wonder if the play is still on.

In fact we Azeris from Azerbaijan feel no Russian flavour in our speech maybe because it doesn't exist at all, excluding some everyday loanwords.

Infact after I started studying Turkish I keep noticing more and more similarities between Turkish and Russian, and when I study with my Turkish friend (we do language exchange Russian<->Turkish) it is often easier to explain something by using analogies in our respective languages than in English, so I got to believe that the influence of Turkic languages onto Russian is rather strong. Off the top of my head:
syntax -- * var - * есть (possessive construction)
phraseology -- söz vermek - давать слово
grammar -- bana (dative case) zor geliyor - мне (dative case) трудно
vocabulary -- sandık - сундук, hazine - казна, başmak - башмак, ütü - утюг
etc etc

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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby Utopist » 2011-12-09, 21:32

You've got a point but still there are just borrowings or things that exist almost in every language.

papaq - папаха
saray (дворец) vs сарай (anbar etc.) :)
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby kalemiye » 2011-12-09, 22:12

Utopist wrote:Anyway I think that there is only one literary form that everyone should base on. :) Guess which? ;)


İn İran people dont use latin script to write Azerbaijani, and the dialect of prestige and literature is that of Tabriz, Baku's dialect is not considered prestigious at all. Books written in latin script are rare to find (in fact i only found a collection of poems by shahryar written in it) all the books on Azerbaijani İ've read or bought are written in a modified Arabic script.
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Re: Foreign influence on Azerbaijani

Postby kalemiye » 2011-12-10, 7:29

voron wrote:
kalemiye wrote: if you pay attention to old movies like Arsin mal alan

Wow I used to pass by our musical theatre on a minubus every day and my attention was always attracted by this board advertising the "Arşın mal alan" play, and it always made me think what language the name was in (my guess was French (because of the "mal" part maybe?) and mind you we spell everything with Cyrillic so I couldn't guess by the alphabet). You revealed the truth for me kalemiye! I wonder if the play is still on.


Arsin mal alan is a very very beautiful operetta with a great story and incredibly beautiful music - even when I didnt understand what the lyrics were saying the melody would be stuck in my mind - that tells the story of Asghar,a rich youth who wants to find love instead of having an arranged marriage. His friend Suleyman suggests him to pretend he is a cloth-peddler so he can enter the houses and see the women. Doing so he falls in love with Gülçöhre (rose-faced) who also falls in love with him :kiss:. If you still have the chance of seeing the play don't miss it!!

More info about Arshin mal alan:
http://www.visions.az/culture,203/
http://shekiazerbaijan.blogspot.com/2011/02/treasures-of-azerbaijan-uzeyir.html

It can be watched for free on YT but unfortunately without subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNjASjmNNNw
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