Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Moderator: eskandar

Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Azərbaycanca
3
19%
Azərbaycan dili
9
56%
Other (please specify)
4
25%
 
Total votes: 16

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Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2009-01-11, 1:29

What is the proper, native way to refer to Azerbaijani in Azerbaijani? (Not what it should be called in English, Turkish, Russian, etc.) Please vote and then post a comment explaining your vote.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby zhiguli » 2009-01-11, 2:13

Until we get a native speaker I don't think we'll be able to decide this for sure. I still think "Azərbaycan dili" is the more "official" name, used more on official sites (and in wikipedia as well). "Azərbaycanca" seems more like a translation of "in Azerbaijani" (azərbaycanca danışmaq/oxumaq/yazmaq, azərbaycanca mahnılar/şerlər/etc)
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby Sean of the Dead » 2009-01-11, 2:25

I agree that it should be "Azerbaycan dili". Although we have no native speakers, I'm sure someone with an intermediate or advanced level might know. :P

Also, I kinda want to learn Azerbaijani, but I need to learn Turkish first, since most resources would be in Turkish. ;)
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-01-12, 3:40

I agree with everyone else! Dili is much more "proper" IMHO.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby Mert » 2009-01-14, 6:29

I'd prefer to call it "Azerice" instead of Azerbaycanca or Azerbaycan dili".
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2009-01-14, 7:02

Mert can, have you ever heard Azeris call it "Azerice"? I think only Turks from Turkey call it that.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby kalemiye » 2009-01-16, 0:25

I don't know, I heard Azerice from them, but it's true they were using Turkey's Turkish... mmm. Anyways I think they call it normally simply "Azeri", in the same way they don't call Persian as "farsça" but "Farsi".
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2009-01-16, 0:48

renata wrote:Anyways I think they call it normally simply "Azeri", in the same way they don't call Persian as "farsça" but "Farsi".

Yes, "farsça" doesn't exist in Azeri; the 'official' name for Persian is "fars dili."
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby zhiguli » 2009-01-17, 11:00

sjheiss wrote:Also, I kinda want to learn Azerbaijani, but I need to learn Turkish first, since most resources would be in Turkish. ;)


From what I've seen there really aren't that many resources about Azeri in Turkish, not surprising since Turks tend to look at Azeri as a kind of country dialect (it is very close to the one spoken in Erzurum and Kars):
http://azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazi ... ish_13.pdf
They have 85-90% common vocabulary, the grammar is almost identical, and many (I dare say - most) Turks can understand it passively, so it's more a matter of learning some different words/false friends than a completely separate language.

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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby kalemiye » 2009-01-22, 11:26

Yes, I agree. I have friends here from Erzurum and they speak sort of Azeri-like [replacing some k by kh or g (i.e: sokak = sogag; çok = çokh), they say "namana" (i dont know if i wrote this right) instead of "ne" (but this only old ppl), and also some vocabulary is closer] but overall it is clear that Erzurum's Turkish and Azeri are quite different. I don't know, I still cannot understand Azeri and I am tired of people (Turks and Azeris) trying to convince me "it is so easy", because for foreigners it is not, I think.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby coyote_k13 » 2009-01-22, 22:23

In fact calling Azeri as Azerbaijani is something we never do when it comes to give a name to our language. Actually, in Iran we call our language Turki but for preventing people mistaking our language with Turkey's Turkish we use the word Azeri which is a Persian word used to call people from Azerbaijan or their language; in Turkey our language and ourselves are called Azeri too.

Azerbaijan dili seems to be better than Azerbaijani but if you ask me, as a native speaker of this language, I prefer using the term Azeri; although, as you know ,the word Azerbaijan or Azar abadegan is a Persian word which means "Land of fire" or "The land that protects fire".

Another point is that if you write Azerbaijan using Turkish alphabet, meaning by this the system that is used in Turkey to write Turkish, you have to write it "Azerbaycan" but when it is written with Perso-Arabic script it is written like this: "آذربایجان". :)
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2009-01-23, 2:49

Çox xoş gəlmisiniz coyote_k13! I'm very glad we finally have a native Azeri speaker here, especially one from Iran! :D What city are you from, if you don't mind my asking?

I completely agree with you - my Iranian Azeri friends and relatives usually call their language "Türki" or "Azəri." However, for this forum I'd like to use the most formal/official name possible, and one acceptable to Azeris from both Iran and the Republic of Azerbaijan. Do you think "Azərbaycan dili" would therefore be acceptable, or is "Azəri" better?

As for the writing system, I prefer to use either the official alphabet used in the Republic of Azerbaijan (since it is specifically designed for use with Azeri) or else the Perso-Arabic script (since it is used by the majority of Azeris, those who live in Iran). However, people are free to use whatever writing system they prefer here.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby coyote_k13 » 2009-01-23, 13:44

Dear اسکندر,

I am from Tabriz :). If you ask me I prefer "Azeri", but "Azerbaycan dili" is acceptable too.

Let me give you some information about Azeri in Iran and Azeri in Azerbaijan Republic. Although we can understand each other pretty well or up to 100%, there are some little differences in our pronunciation. When it comes to script, all I can say is that I use Perso-Arabic script, but I know the other one which, if you ask me, fits Azeri better because the Perso-Arabic script is unable to show full pronunciation, therefore you have to be an Azeri or know enough Azeri to guess what the word is read like.

The point is the script which is used in Azerbaijan Rep. is an adaptation of Turkish alphabet with some special characters to represent sounds that do not exist in Turkey's Turkish (i.e. "x"). So, although I prefer it to Perso-Arabic, in my opinion it is far from being totally suitable for our language since it was made to fit Baku's dialect.

As you know, the majority of Azeri people live in Iran and Azeri people of Iran think it is more trendy and high class to speak Tabrizi-accented Azeri. I am not telling this because I am from Tabriz, so I can help you in any problem you have with any accent of Azeri you prefer, but try to speak the best considered Azeri :wink:, so people can think the best of you.
and you know me :wink: I am Renata's friend :silly:.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby zhiguli » 2009-01-25, 19:27

Perhaps it would be a good idea to add the name in Arabic script (آذری) to the header. That way you could pull in more native speakers from Iran through the search engines.

Btw, خوش كلدك فورومزه، coyote_k13, always good to see native speakers here.

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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2009-01-28, 4:42

I propose that the forum title be changed to Azerbaijani (Azərbaycan dili/آذری). How does that sound to everyone?

!تبریز پایتخت جهان است :D I want to learn the Tabrizi dialect because my zan-ammu (yenge) is from Tabriz.

coyote_k13 wrote:"خوش گلیپسیز" یا "خوش گلمیسیز"

"Xoş gəlipsiz" or "xoş gəlmisiz" - is that correct? What does گلیپ mean on its own?
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2009-01-29, 16:01

The forum title has been changed to Azerbaijani (Azərbaycan dili/آذری). I have split the posts discussing how to say "welcome" in Azeri to a new topic.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby ati » 2010-05-29, 8:42

Azerbeycanca demek çok uydurulmuş geldi. "Azerbaycan dili" demek de fazla abartılı ve gereksiz. Yani dostlar arasında konuşurken Azerbaycan'dan bahsederken "sen Azerbeycan Cumhuriyetinde mi yaşıyorsun?" demek gibi gereksiz bir resmiyet var? Benim önerim Azeri veya Azerbaycani.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby Mulder-21 » 2011-07-26, 18:22

Do the words really mean the same?

From what tidbits I've learned of Turkish (so I apologise beforehand if I get it wrong in Azeri), the -CA-ending is called an equative meaning it's like something, while dil + the possessive -(s)I is an 'of something'-thingy, so:

azərbaycanca = like an Azerbaijani
azərbaycan dili = language of Azerbaijan

Clearly, again, if I understand the constructions correctly, these two words mean two different things. I also think that the Wikipedia uses the -CA endings, so we could use it here also.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby kalemiye » 2011-07-26, 21:12

No, that suffix means "language". That is why all languages in Turkish end in -ca/-ce/-ça/-çe as in: İspanyolca (Spanish language), Korece (Korean language), Farsça (Persian language), Türkçe (Turkish language).

My updated opinion is that is should be named "Azərbaycan Türkçesi", but the current name is fine.

It seems I had missed this back in the day, but Farsca is also the way Persian is called in Azerbaijani, not only Fars dili, as in:

Milli.Az xəbər portalı
CNN Türk-ə istinadən xəbər verir ki, 24 saat fasiləsiz xəbər verən “Euronews” bir müddət əvvəl türk dilində yayıma başlamışdı. Farsca verilişlər yayımlansa, “Euronews” 10 dildə xəbər verən telekanal olacaq. Əldə olunan razılaşmaya görə, fars dilində verilişlərə maliyyə dəstəyini Avropa Komissiyası verəcək. Farsca verilişləri başda İran, Əfqanıstan və Tacikistan olmaqla 126 milyon tamaşaçının izləməsi nəzərdə tutulur.
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Re: Poll: Azərbaycanca vs. Azərbaycan dili

Postby eskandar » 2011-07-26, 21:53

kalemiye wrote:No, that suffix means "language". That is why all languages in Turkish end in -ca/-ce/-ça/-çe as in: İspanyolca (Spanish language), Korece (Korean language), Farsça (Persian language), Türkçe (Turkish language).
Well, it doesn't literally mean "language" - the suffix is used for other things as well (see here). It means something more like "like/in the way of" so that a language name like Türkçe means literally "in the way of the Turks," as pointed out in the link. This is the usual way for forming language names in Turkish, but it doesn't actually mean 'language.'

My updated opinion is that is should be named "Azərbaycan Türkçesi", but the current name is fine.
"Azərbaycan Türkçəsi" is not used as much as "Azərbaycan dili," and from what I can tell it's mostly used by Azerbaijanis writing under Istanbuli Turkish influence (similar to how Iranian Azerbaijanis, under Persian influence, often call their language "Türki"). For example, "Azərbaycan Türkçəsi" yields 228,000 results on Google - compare that to "Azərbaycan dili" with 14,400,000 results. The -cA ending is not ordinarily used in Azerbaijani to form language names; 'X dili' is the norm. Such a construction for forming language names is not even understood by Iranian Azerbaijanis (who far outnumber the Azerbaijanis of other countries) except those who have had exposure to Istanbuli Turkish.
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