Turkmen (Türkmençe)

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Re: Bahasa Turkmen

Postby eskandar » 2008-07-03, 21:25

0stsee wrote:I've listened to the Youtube clips a couple of times, and somehow I didn't perceive any particular lisping.


I think Zhiguli was referring to the presence of [θ] and [ð] (th and dh) instead of [s] and [z] in Turkmen, which may sound like lisping to some.

nadi wrote:I have looked into Turkmen language for a few days and have seen that if you are a speaker of a Turkic lanugage, it is really easy to learn Turkmen. Why don't you try it? I see that it is also useful for Turkish spoken in Turkey since it contains many nice idioms and expressions which can be adopted and used. I think it is worth a try.


Unfortunately I only know a little Turkish and a little Azeri. I'm not fluent in any Turkic language. I'd like to learn some Turkmen so that I can understand Magtymguly's poetry better. Thanks for the website!
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Re: Bahasa Turkmen

Postby nadi » 2008-07-04, 11:05

eskandar wrote:I think Zhiguli was referring to the presence of [θ] and [ð] (th and dh) instead of [s] and [z] in Turkmen, which may sound like lisping to some.


I think it is necessary for us to have some sound resources of Turkmen. I have searched but haven't found anything yet.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-07-07, 8:31


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Re: Bahasa Turkmen

Postby zhiguli » 2008-07-07, 8:44

eskandar wrote:
0stsee wrote:I've listened to the Youtube clips a couple of times, and somehow I didn't perceive any particular lisping.


I think Zhiguli was referring to the presence of [θ] and [ð] (th and dh) instead of [s] and [z] in Turkmen, which may sound like lisping to some.


this is indeed what i meant, and i can't think of any other language where s/z has been completely replaced by θ/ð.
if you listen to the first lesson on the indiana university website you'll hear them very clearly say "thalam", "eththalawmu aleyküm", "türkmeniththan", etc.

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Re: Bahasa Turkmen

Postby nadi » 2008-07-07, 11:43



Thank you very much, zhiguli. This is priceless help!

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-07-07, 12:17

just noticed there's a new link on the turkmens.com page:
http://www.turkmenkino.com/
it has full-length movies, including the magtymguly film the youtube clip was taken from.

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Postby eskandar » 2008-07-09, 22:17

Today I have some time to spend on Turkmen, so I've looked up a few of the uncertain parts from the "Näme Sen" poem. I'm using "Dictionary of the Turkic Languages" and this online dictionary for reference.

"Aýda bilmen, ýa çarhmy sen, çenbermiň" - this is a hard one. The words must be correct (though I couldn't find "çenber" anywhere). "Bilmen" is the tricky part, though. I tried to look for this word used elsewhere and it seems to be similar to the Turkish word "olmaz." Look at this sentence (with a translation) that I found and tell me what you think:
Kowalap ýetip bilmen - If I pursued, I would not catch him (from here).
However, I think your translation is probably correct.

"möwç" apparently means rage, havoc, or terror
"lenber" - ???
"Garaçy" may be related to the word "garakçy" (bandit) or "deñiz garaçylary" (pirates). "Gara" is of course 'black' in Turkmen (Turkish "kara")
"kär" means job, profession, or occupation

"Jahan doly" - "jahan" is world and "doly" is hail or full, filled, thick, complete, so I think your translation "The world is full" is correct.
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Postby nadi » 2008-07-10, 9:40

eskandar wrote:Today I have some time to spend on Turkmen, so I've looked up a few of the uncertain parts from the "Näme Sen" poem. I'm using "Dictionary of the Turkic Languages" and this online dictionary for reference.

"Aýda bilmen, ýa çarhmy sen, çenbermiň" - this is a hard one. The words must be correct (though I couldn't find "çenber" anywhere). "Bilmen" is the tricky part, though. I tried to look for this word used elsewhere and it seems to be similar to the Turkish word "olmaz." Look at this sentence (with a translation) that I found and tell me what you think:
Kowalap ýetip bilmen - If I pursued, I would not catch him (from here).
However, I think your translation is probably correct.



When I look more carefully, I notice that “Aýda bilmen” may mean “söyleyemiyorum = I can’t tell”. In Turkish we have “-ebilmek” for “can”. “I can swim = Yüzebilirim.” “ I can’t swim. = Yüzemem.” If I am not mistaken this becomes “Yüze bilmen = I can’t swim” in Turkmen. In this case, my translation is wrong.

“Kowalap ýetip bilmen” may mean “I am following, but I can’t reach”.

Probably “çenber” has got a similiar meaning with the word “çember” inTurkish which means “cicrcle, hoop, ring, round”. This might have been used here as a symbol for the round face of the loved one.

I am hopless for the other parts.  :cry:

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Postby alijsh » 2008-07-14, 1:24

Has anybody read the poems of مختوم‌قلی فراغی (Magtymguly Fragy)? He is very famous among Iranian Turkmens. I got acquainted with him thru a novel in Persian.

I don't know Turkmen but as for möwç, can it mean "wave"? It sounds similar to Persian mowj. Especially that the word before it, is daryā.

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Postby eskandar » 2008-07-14, 1:56

The poem we are attempting to translate is by that very poet, Magtymguly! Do you happen to know if any of his poetry is translated into Persian?

Good guess with "möwç" - I think you're probably right, it makes perfect sense in context. Now if we could only figure out what "lenber" means!
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Postby alijsh » 2008-07-15, 3:47

All his poetry has been translated into Persian. I found one of them here. The first two beyts of it along with its translation:

[rp] سن فتاح

ايران ـ توران بو گون غولینگ آستيندا
سورگین ايندي بو دوراني سن فتاح
کوللی توركمن اوينار چؤلینگ اوستونده
دؤكمه بیلگين ناحق غاني سن فتاح


امروز ایران و توران زیر دستان تو
و دوران به کام توست ای فتاح!
از خون ترکمنان آزاد و رها بر سینه صحرا
بناحق سیل جاری مکن!
[/rp]

I also found this blog.

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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby zhiguli » 2008-11-12, 20:36

altyn asyr tv online:

http://www.turkmentv.com/

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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby zhiguli » 2009-01-09, 14:24

For you all you would-be Turkologists:
http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/cec/index.shtml
It's a virtual treasure trove of materials about various Turkic languages.
In "guides" there's an anthology of Turkmen literature and a Turkmen (monolingual) dictionary (on a side note, I looked for the word "lenber" but it wasn't there...)

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Re:

Postby eskandar » 2009-05-14, 15:40

I decided to revisit this poem (which I love) and see if I can figure out the parts that we couldn't get before. This translation is by Nadi, I just figured out a word here or there:

Asla seni görmemişem, dildarym! = I have never seen you, my love!
Gumrymy sen, bilbilmi sen, näme sen?! = Are you a dove, a nightingale, what are you?
Gamgyn köňlüm hyýalyňda aldaram, = I deceive my unhappy heart with your imagination,
Bag içinde gülgülmi sen, näme sen?! = are you a flower in a garden, what are you?

Ýa müşkmi sen, ýa kokunar anbarmyň, = Are you musk or ambergris which is smelled,
Aýda bilmen, ýa çarhmy sen, çenbermiň, = I can't tell if you are the moon, a wheel or a circle,
Ýa derýamyň, ýa möwçmi sen, lenbermiň, = A sea, a wave, or a ripple?
Ýa girdapmyň, ýa burgunmyň, näme sen?! = a whirlpool or a disaster, what are you?

Garaçymyň, ýa seýitmiň, hojamyň, = Are you a Qarachi, a Sayyid, or a Khoja,
Ýa sakymyň, ýa şerapmyň, ýa jammyň, = Are you a cupbearer, wine or wineglass,
Ýa ýylmy sen, ýa gündizmiň, gijemiň, = the year, daytime or night,
Ýa Aýmy sen, ýa Günmi sen, näme sen?! = the moon or the sun, what are you?

Altynmy sen, kümüşmi sen, zermi sen, = Are you gold, silver or a jewel,
Ýa arşmy sen, ýa kürsmi sen, ýermi sen, = Are you the highest heaven, the heavenly throne, or the earth,
Ýa ýakutmyň, ýa merjenmiň, dürmi sen, = are you ruby, coral or pearl,
Ýa çyragmyň, ýa röwşenmiň, näme sen?! = a lamp or a light, what are you?

Magtymguly, geç namysdan, aryňdan, = Oh, Magtymguly! Give up your honor and shyness,
El götergil bu wepasyz käriňden, = others took you away from your disloyal profession
Jahan doly, sen gapyl sen ýaryňdan, = The world is full and you are not aware of your sweetheart,
Meý-mestmi sen, ýa şeýdamyň, näme sen?! = Are you drunk or frenzied, what are you?

I decided to leave the titles Qarachi (high noble in the Turkic khanate), Sayyid (descendant of the prophet Muhammad), and Khoja (Sufi descendent of Ahmad Kasani) untranslated, because I think that makes more sense than trying to come up with English equivalents that don't really exist. It was difficult translating "arş" and "kürs" as well because they are Islamic terms without direct English equivalents, but I don't think "seventh heaven" and "sky" were ideal translations so I changed them. And I finally figured out "lenber" - it must be from the Persian لنبر (and indeed it's spelled this way when I've seen this poem written in Perso-Arabic script), which means "to lap" (as in water), so I think we can translate it as "ripple". I've bolded all the changes that I made to Nadi's translation.
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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-14, 15:43

Anyone learning Turkmen? I could start some grammar notes if anyone's interested. I'm currently learning Turkmen, though I haven't gotten very far yet . . . :para:

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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-14, 16:19

Sorry false alarm. Aparently CeLCAR at Indiana U. is in the ending stages of producing a Turkmen textbook. (Link here) And the textbook I have now is great and all, but it doesn't come with audio, so I think I'll wait for the CeLCAR textbook (should be out in spring).

Also, as a side note, CeLCAR also has textbooks for Tajiki, Uzbek, and Pashto (with audio/video!). Though I understand that the textbook for Tajiki was published by Georgetown U. instead of directly by CeLCAR. They are a bit pricey, but if you're serious about learning any Central Asian language, do check it out.

[They are also in the works for some other textbooks too, so who knows what the future holds :partyhat: .]

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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby eskandar » 2010-01-19, 3:38

If you do decide to post grammar notes, I will read them with interest. I'm eagerly waiting for the CeLCAR textbook to be released. What language is the textbook you're using written in - is it that Peace Corps manual? Turkmen phonology is not particularly tricky (especially for anyone familiar with other Turkic language). If you look earlier in this thread, you can find some good audio resources.
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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-19, 10:47

eskandar wrote:If you do decide to post grammar notes, I will read them with interest. I'm eagerly waiting for the CeLCAR textbook to be released. What language is the textbook you're using written in - is it that Peace Corps manual? Turkmen phonology is not particularly tricky (especially for anyone familiar with other Turkic language). If you look earlier in this thread, you can find some good audio resources.

I have a book from Dunwoody Press called Basic Turkmen which is in English. It's a good textbook actually, except for the audio thing. Actually the people who authored the book are from Indiana U. (the same university the CeLCAR is through) so I wonder if the textbook they are talking about making is either the same version I have, or maybe a modified version. Either way I can't wait for CeLCAR's textbook either. I don't know that much about Turkmen phonology, but to be on the safe side I like to have audio for any language I'm learning. Anyway let's hope they come out with that textbook soon!

I'll probably still wait to post anything until I get CeLCAR's textbook. Sorry.
Thanks for the audio ideas by the way.

As a side note, I do plan on buying the Uzbek Textbook through CeLCAR sometime in the next week or so, so I might start posting notes on that one soon, though if my memory is not as faulty as I think it is :shock: I think zhiguli was posting some. Though that was quite a while ago, huh?

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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby daniellle » 2010-03-04, 2:54

wow Turkmen! Is it like Arabic or Turkish :?: :blush:

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Re: Turkmen (Türkmençe)

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-04, 10:56

daniellle wrote:wow Turkmen! Is it like Arabic or Turkish :?: :blush:

In short:Turkish yes, Arabic no.


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