Uyghur?

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Mongol » 2008-11-22, 16:03

Hi ! I'm new to Unilang, and very interested in Turkic languages, and can read Turkish and Azeri etc somewhat. I studied an Uzbek language instruction book some years ago, and the similarities between Uzbek and Turkish were obvious. I've also seen some written examples of Uyghur. I don't think that Uyghur is as different from Turkish as Icelandic is different from English. Even Swedes and Danes can't understand Icelandic.
I knew a Turk living in America some years ago who visited Uzbekistan. He was able to converse with the Uzbeks, if with some difficulty.
I think that the Kazan Tatar language of the Volga would be difficult for Turks to understand, because of a vowel shift which changes words like Biz (we) to Bez, Bir (1) to Ber, common Turkic Men (I) to Min, Kel, come, to Kil etc.
I also read a Yakut grammar. Despite the vast distance from Turkey to Siberia, it was obvious to me that Yakut is very closely related to Turkish, despite the differences.

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby polishboy » 2009-02-12, 21:59

hey!
I have found a Japanese website for learning Uyghur!
These are personal pronouns:
2.人称代名詞
私 | メン män

私たち | ビズ biz
あなた | スィズ siz

あなたがた | スィズレー sizlär
君 | セン sän

君たち | スィレー silär
彼 | ウ u

彼ら | ウラー ural


they are different from Turkish, but similar.

I have read that Turkic languages are as similar as romance languages.

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Mongol » 2009-02-15, 15:41

Try the forums at turania.com, which has a subforums for the various Turkic languages,
including Uygur, as well as an Englsih forum for everything Turkic, Mongol, Finno-Ugrian,
Japanese, Korean etc. They consider all of these to be Turanian languages at this site.
It's really interesting. Check it out.

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby linguanima » 2009-07-23, 14:02

Guys, I've started a Uyghur thread here. You're welcome to discuss anything about the language, the people and the culture and post anything you think is relevant. Thanks!
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Laoshu505000 » 2009-08-12, 0:24

Wow, so much hostility in this thread. We all should be getting along here and working together as far as language learning is concerned. This is what these threads are for. I highly doubt ALL natives would not be willing to help an individual learn their language as long as there's some sort of language exchange. Perhaps those who don't care about language learning wouldn't want to even do something like that. Lets continue to work together and learn languages! :yep:

Moses

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Mert » 2009-12-06, 18:02

I have seen new letters in Uyghur. How are they used?

ﺌ ئا ئە ٮ ئو ئۇ ئۆ ئۈ ۋ ۇ ۆ ۈ ئې ئى ې يا


By the way, I had invested ۋ. I am using it for "ö" letter. :)


ۋردك : ördek
ه ه
ل
پ

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby linguanima » 2009-12-06, 18:58

Mert wrote:I have seen new letters in Uyghur. How are they used?

ﺌ ئا ئە ٮ ئو ئۇ ئۆ ئۈ ۋ ۇ ۆ ۈ ئې ئى ې يا


By the way, I had invested ۋ. I am using it for "ö" letter. :)


ۋردك : ördek


ئا = a, ئە = ə (in Azeri, or like 'a' in English 'fat'), ئو = o, ئۇ = u, ئۆ = ö, ئۈ = ü، ئى = i, ئې = e, ۋ = w/v

Uyghur orthographical rules state that a glottal stop (represented by the Arabic hamza) has to be present before every vowel that starts a word. So although all the vowels can be written without a hamza, like (ا، ە، ې، ى، و، ۇ، ۆ، ۈ), they have to be preceded by one when they start a word, compare the orthographical representation of the letter ۆ (ö) in the following words:

ئۆچمەك = öçmək, to go out (fire), to perish
كۆڭۈل = köngül, heart

Also, Mert, note that in Uyghur every vowel is written. So 'ördək' would really be written as ئۆردەك. And sorry, letter ۋ has a value already: it represents a w or a v, or something in between, depending on the dialect.
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Mert » 2009-12-06, 19:21

linguanima wrote:
Also, Mert, note that in Uyghur every vowel is written. So 'ördək' would really be written as ئۆردەك. And sorry, letter ۋ has a value already: it represents a w or a v, or something in between, depending on the dialect.


So, Alex; are all vowels written for the word having Arabic origin? Just like the following examples:

تشكر = ته شه ككور

مجرم = موجريم
ه ه
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby linguanima » 2009-12-06, 19:46

Mert wrote:
linguanima wrote:
Also, Mert, note that in Uyghur every vowel is written. So 'ördək' would really be written as ئۆردەك. And sorry, letter ۋ has a value already: it represents a w or a v, or something in between, depending on the dialect.


So, Alex; are all vowels written for the word having Arabic origin? Just like the following examples:

تشكر = ته شه ككور

مجرم = موجريم


Yes, including loan words. Uyghur has even eliminated redundant Arabic letters unfit for the language. For example, 'z' is uniformly represented as ز, despite the etymology, which could make it ض, ظ or ذ
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
Ğərbiy hünərlər: [flag]en[/flag] [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]el[/flag]

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Mert » 2009-12-06, 20:08

تشكرلر، آلكس

I wonder something: Is there a special letter for "ı" in Uyghur?
ه ه
ل
پ

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby linguanima » 2009-12-06, 22:33

Mert wrote:تشكرلر، آلكس

I wonder something: Is there a special letter for "ı" in Uyghur?


Rica ederim, Mert.
No there isn't. You just have to know when to pronounce it as ı according to vowel harmony rules, which in Uyghur can be a bit chaotic...
Şərqiy hünərlər: [flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag]
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Mert » 2009-12-07, 18:52

Alex,

Are Turkish suffix' vowels used in Uyghur orthography? Just like: ميش instead of مش

Instead of دي to use دي دو تي تو
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby utku » 2009-12-07, 23:47

Kenji27 wrote:Hi can someone teach me Uyghur? thank you :)


I guess that Kenji27 is not familiar with the term Turkic.

I think it's a reasonable idea to ask for someone speaking Uyghur here in Turkish forum concerning that was no Uyghur forum at the time of related entry. It's obvious that there are a notable amount of Uyghur people living in Turkey.

Asking a German about Icelandic language and asking a Turk abour Uyghur language may not be analogous to each other. I don't know, both are Germanic, maybe it is. In order to express my point shortly, I give such example that Dutch-German and Turkish-Uyghur couples could be assumed as analogous. I don't know if it applies for the Icelandic-German couple too. Recently, I noticed that I can understand written Dutch by means of my skills in English and poor German at a basic level. :) Anyone speaking a Turkic language as native can understand basic expressions of other Turkic languages. Nevertheless, It's harder to express same basic things in a Turkic language other than one's own. Understanding Uygur is not a big deal for a Turkish native speaker. Such a Turkic language speaking person can get used to Uyghur in a short time. Most of words have Turkic, Arabic and Persian origins, grammer is similar, etc... Kyrgyz, Azeri and Turkish languages are even more similar to each other. Native speakers of these three languages can communicate in daily life easily. Uyghur and Turkish are not that close due to cultural difference based on larger geographical distance.

All in all, acting as if Uyghur and Turkish are from different planets wouldn't be so proper. Anyone may make a mistake easily by mixing up and confusing one with other without sufficient knowledge about languages in general.
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby eskandar » 2009-12-07, 23:52

utku wrote:Kyrgyz, Azeri and Turkish languages are even more similar to each other.

Er, what? Azeri and Turkish are quite similar to one another, but Kyrgyz is in a totally different subfamily within Turkic and is not particularly close to the Oghuz languages. It may be somewhat comprehensible to a speaker of another Kypchak language like Kazakh, but not to a Turkish-speaker. Perhaps you were thinking of Turkmen, which is fairly close to Turkish and Azeri.
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby kalemiye » 2009-12-08, 0:05

eskandar wrote:
utku wrote:Kyrgyz, Azeri and Turkish languages are even more similar to each other.

Er, what? Azeri and Turkish are quite similar to one another, but Kyrgyz is in a totally different subfamily within Turkic and is not particularly close to the Oghuz languages. It may be somewhat comprehensible to a speaker of another Kypchak language like Kazakh, but not to a Turkish-speaker. Perhaps you were thinking of Turkmen, which is fairly close to Turkish and Azeri.


There was a Kyrgyz student in my university, and he could communicate with my professor, each speaking in their own Turkish.
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby utku » 2009-12-08, 0:20

eskandar wrote:
utku wrote:Kyrgyz, Azeri and Turkish languages are even more similar to each other.

Er, what? Azeri and Turkish are quite similar to one another, but Kyrgyz is in a totally different subfamily within Turkic and is not particularly close to the Oghuz languages. It may be somewhat comprehensible to a speaker of another Kypchak language like Kazakh, but not to a Turkish-speaker. Perhaps you were thinking of Turkmen, which is fairly close to Turkish and Azeri.


Yea, maybe... You're right. I thought on the basis of territories. I shouldn't include the "Kyrgyz Language". I ment the people called Turkmen in the region. Exactly, descendants of Oghuz people in the region... I don't know whether they are Oghuz or not, but Turkic people in Tuva also speak very similar to Turkish, eventhough they are at the Kypchak region. Anyways, it's complicated :) It seems to me that Kypchak languages are closer to Oghuz than Uyghur. At least, in one of the entries an Uyghur guy claimed that he could chat with Oghuz people if they speak slowly. But, from academic point of view, you're absolutely right.
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Re: Uyghur?

Postby zhiguli » 2009-12-19, 1:55

I can't believe this topic is still being revived from the dead years after it was started. I wonder if this Kenji guy ever got around to learning it.

utku wrote:It's obvious that there are a notable amount of Uyghur people living in Turkey.


Notable - a few thousand, at most? And from what I've heard most of them (especially young people) do not speak their own language anymore.

utku wrote:Recently, I noticed that I can understand written Dutch by means of my skills in English and poor German at a basic level. :) Anyone speaking a Turkic language as native can understand basic expressions of other Turkic languages.


Speaking only French, I was able to understand basic expressions in Spanish/Italian/etc and communicate on a very basic level with native speakers of these languages. I was even able to follow along to tv shows after just a few hours of exposure. This does not make them the same language or even mutually intelligible, not by a long shot.
Somehow I doubt Uyghur is closer to Turkish than these languages are to each other.

utku wrote:All in all, acting as if Uyghur and Turkish are from different planets wouldn't be so proper. Anyone may make a mistake easily by mixing up and confusing one with other without sufficient knowledge about languages in general.


No one is saying anything of the kind. But it would be equally wrong to act as though they're the same language.

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Re: Uyghur?

Postby Muhammed » 2010-10-21, 13:25

If you'll learn Uyghur, let me know by PM, I can help you.
[flag]ug[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]en[/flag] [flag]az[/flag] [flag]uz[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag]


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