Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

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zhiguli
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Postby zhiguli » 2008-03-05, 9:16

you're probably aware of this site: http://uztranslations.net.ru/

and the peace corps manuals, which are very good, so there's no shortage of material out there. the problem is finding enough reading material and reliable native speakers.

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Timpul
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Postby Timpul » 2008-03-20, 13:13

Hi there!

I have a couple of doubts.
1) When do we pronounce e as ye and when as eh?
2) What are the stressing rules in Kazakh? Where to put stress in words?

Thanks in advance ;)

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-03-22, 6:04

Timpul wrote:Hi there!

I have a couple of doubts.
1) When do we pronounce e as ye and when as eh?
2) What are the stressing rules in Kazakh? Where to put stress in words?


maybe i should leave this to the experts, but:

afaik е is always pronounced je. listening to audio of spoken kazakh on sites like this one:
http://www.learnkaz.freenet.kz/about.htm
only seems to confirm this.

Timpul wrote:2) What are the stressing rules in Kazakh? Where to put stress in words?


stress as a rule goes on the last syllable, except in the case of some adverbs (and according to one of my textbooks "words with emotional shades of meaning and interjections" and loan words).
also:

The syllable preceding the personal endings takes the stress: жазАды, келЕмін, ойлАйды


that is the personal forms of the verb "to be", with the possessive suffixes the stress shifts onto the suffix.

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Timpul
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Postby Timpul » 2008-03-24, 15:50

stress as a rule goes on the last syllable, except in the case of some adverbs (and according to one of my textbooks "words with emotional shades of meaning and interjections" and loan words).
also:

After listening to the National anthem of Kazakhstan I was confused, because a man who is singing it pronounces "менің" as ['mʲɛɲiŋ] (the stress is on the first syllable.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-03-30, 10:16

listening to songs to figure out the intonation is probably not the best idea, but after listening to some of the dialogues again it does sound like менің сенің etc get stressed on the first syllable.

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The Owl and the Pussy-cat - to be translated into Kazakh

Postby pimpoapo » 2008-04-01, 15:53

Hi,

I'm looking for a translation of the Owl and the Pussy-cat by Edward Lear on behalf of my friend who is making a collection of this poem in as many languages as he can, just for fun. He's 97-year-old and this hobby gives him a great pleasure.

The Owl and the Pussy-cat

I

The Owl and the Pussy-cat went to sea
In a beautiful pea green boat,
They took some honey, and plenty of money,
Wrapped up in a five pound note.
The Owl looked up to the stars above,
And sang to a small guitar,
'O lovely Pussy! O Pussy my love,
What a beautiful Pussy you are,
You are,
You are!
What a beautiful Pussy you are!'

II

Pussy said to the Owl, 'You elegant fowl!
How charmingly sweet you sing!
O let us be married! too long we have tarried:
But what shall we do for a ring?'
They sailed away, for a year and a day,
To the land where the Bong-tree grows
And there in a wood a Piggy-wig stood
With a ring at the end of his nose,
His nose,
His nose,
With a ring at the end of his nose.

III

'Dear pig, are you willing to sell for one shilling
Your ring?' Said the Piggy, 'I will.'
So they took it away, and were married next day
By the Turkey who lives on the hill.
They dined on mince, and slices of quince,
Which they ate with a runcible spoon;
And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand,
They danced by the light of the moon,
The moon,
The moon,
They danced by the light of the moon.


He started about a year ago and we managed to get it in more than 40 languages so far. Because we are running out of resources I decided to ask help from communities who dedicated to different languages.
It doesn't need to be a professional translation.

Here's a website that I started to set up to share all the translations that we've got so far. Some of them was made by poets but most of them just by friends or people who we run into in different places (waiters of the local restaurant, nurses from hospital, etc). They did the best they could and they just did it for fun and because they wanted to add their own language to this collection.

http://pimpoapo.itrello.com/bompa/

The site is under construction, at the moment just a flash version available.

Here is the list of the languages that we've got so far (01/04/2008):

Afrikaans, Basque, Bulgarian, Catalan, Chinese, Danish, Dutch, Esperanto, Estonian, Finnish, French, Frisian, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hungarian, Italian, Irish Gaelic, Korean, Kyrgyz, Latin, Lithuanian, Macedonian, Malagasy, Norvegian Bokmål, Norwegian Nynorsk, Polish, Portuguese, Portuguese (Brazilian), Romanian, Russian, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish, Tagalog (Pilipino), Thai, Turkish, Welsh

If you could translate it into Kazakh that would be a great help for us.
For exchange I always mention who did the translation at the end of the poem and if you wish it can be linked to your website or email address.

Thanks again for anyone who will help us.

-=Pimpoapo=-

zhiguli
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Postby zhiguli » 2008-04-02, 7:11

what the...?!?!
_not_ a good idea to spam half the forum with the same annoying request.
next time, make _one post only_ in the translations forum (it's there for a reason), you will get a more positive response.

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Postby pimpoapo » 2008-04-02, 12:31

Dear zhiguli,

I'm so sorry to dared to ask for help in your topic... I promise I won't do it any more...
Fortunately thanks to my "spamming" (actually it's more close to "flooding" if you want to categorise it) I met with people who actually know the description of the Language-specific Forums and happy to help... "Here you will find the language-specific forums. Serious learning takes place on these forums, often with virtual lessons about foreign languages. The topics can include any doubts or problems that arise in studying a language. This is also the place where you can practice your language skills or ask for grammar or translation assistance!"

Once again, sorry to ask for help with a Kazakh translation...

-=Pimpoapo=-

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Postby seytan » 2008-06-11, 8:20

According to the "to be going to" form; to create a verb in future (intentional) tense in Kazakh, we have to add to the root an adjectival intentional participle of the future tense suffix and after that - personal suffix.

E.g. келу - to come
кел+мек+пын - I'm going to come

Speaking about adjectival participle of the future, there are six suffixes:
- мақ мек
- пақ пек
- бақ бек
We add each due to a vowel harmony.

To the personal suffixes:
1st person singular - пын пін
2nd person singular - сың сің
2nd person (polite) - сыз сіз
3rd person polite - none
1st person plural - пыз піз
2nd person plural - сыңдар сіңдер
2nd person (polite) - сыздар сіздер
3rd person plural - none

Some examples:
Университет бітіруден соң, ол дәрігер болмақ.
After finishing the university, he is going to be a doctor.
Сен маған бұл хатты жібермексің бе?
Are you going to send this letter to me?
Біз ертең пәтерін сатып алмақпыз.
We are going to buy an apartment tomorrow.

To form a negative sentence, we have to add the word емес. The rule is simple; we leave a root of the verb with a participle suffix and a personal suffix goes to the negation phrase - емес. In action:

e.g. айту - to tell
1st sing - айтпақ емеспін
2nd sing - айтпақ емессің
2nd polite - айтпақ емессіз
3rd sing - айтпақ емес
1st plural - айтпақ емеспіз
2nd plural - айтпақ емессіңдер
2nd polite - айтпақ емессіздер
3rd plural - айтпақ емес

Note that the inflection of the "емес" phrase always stays the same, regardless of the verb.

Example:
- қайда баруың керек білеміз, тек қана сен анда болмақ емессің...
We know where must you go to, it's just you aren't going to be there...

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Postby Timpul » 2008-06-11, 13:41

Heh, I love Kazakh :) I'll spend all my holiday learning it :)

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Postby seytan » 2008-06-11, 16:53

Maybe I'm not in a such great love like you, Timpul, but at least I'll spend the end of this week with kazakh ;] I've got an exam on monday :/

According to my last post; there is also the second way to form "going to", just add the "шы" (or ші) suffix after the participle and then put the personal suffix. In negative "шы" stays with a root of the verb, after participle, negation phrase "емес" stays as I described above.

E.g. айту (to tell)
1st sing (+)айтпақшымын
1st sing (-)айтпақшы емеспін

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Postby Timpul » 2008-06-11, 19:17

Exam :) Are you studying this langauge professionally? :) I'm just an amateur, hoping to get to know some basics of it (on a communicative level :D). Btw, good luck! :)

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Postby seytan » 2008-06-12, 0:43

I'm the amateur too, because Kazakh isn't the dominant language during my studies, it's like a bonus to turkish language... After the exams I'll try to add some vocabulary and grammar... but now my brain is blowing up from this whole stuff :P
Thanks, I'll need a lot of luck ^^

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Re:

Postby hyc » 2008-07-27, 7:06

2 months ago I met a girl from Kazakhstan. I've been reading this stuff since then, many thanks to you for providing it!

zhiguli wrote:i'm a bit busy right now so i can't make any promises about new lessons, but your best bet if you're learning through english are the peace corps manuals, which can be downloaded at the links below:

Kazakh Language Course for Peace Corps Volunteers in Kazakhstan.

Kazakh: Language Competencies for Peace Corps Volunteers in Kazakhstan.



The second link there is just an older version of the first document, it seems. One published in 1992 and the other in 1995, both have basically the same structure and background text. I've read them both completely now, and I don't think there's anything in the 1992 version that's not in the 1995.



These are all digital scans of printed books, so they're not very clear in several places. I've started manually typing them into a text (HTML) file so they're more readable. But I suppose I've introduced errors along the way. If anyone is interested, you can see what I've finished so far here:
http://www.highlandsun.com/hyc/Kazakh_Grammatical_Sketch.html

I've corrected some obvious English grammatical errors and such, but with the difficulty of reading the typeface I'm not sure I've gotten all of the Kazakh text right.

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Re: Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

Postby zhiguli » 2008-07-29, 13:44

Thank you for the note and the great work you're doing, I can't promise I'll be proofreading but I will be using it, for sure. Of course there are some rules (like front vowels with front vowels, қ ғ with back vowels only, etc etc etc) that can make the guesswork easier but they are not 100% foolproof.

I'll be adding some stuff to my site some time or other (link is in my profile) sooner or later, so check back once in awhile.

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Re: Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

Postby hyc » 2008-07-30, 10:03

Yeah, I see. I started with the Grammatical Sketch because it was short, it only took me two days to type it all up. But I didn't really understand the alphabet well enough when I started. It seems the 1995 Language Course is the best document to work with here; unfortunately it's also the most difficult to write in HTML since it uses so many graphics and irregular positioning of the text.

I may work at it slowly. The 1992 manual is simple to format, but its organization is not as good as the 1995 manual. (E.g., it starts talking about suffixes with examples in Cyrillic, but before it has actually introduced the alphabet. Ordering things that way makes no sense for English-speaking students, and the 1995 manual does a much better job of ordering the material in a logical sequence.)

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Re: Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

Postby Timpul » 2008-08-09, 14:56

In this pdf the letters ү and ұ are totally illegible and without a magnifier sometimes it's impossible to read it ;)

Oh, do you know the song Асыл әжем by Қарақат? It's really beautiful. Does anyone know the link to the lyrics or can write them here? If the translation isn't possible, please just tell me what it's about :)

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Re: Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

Postby zhiguli » 2008-08-10, 5:39

Timpul wrote:In this pdf the letters ү and ұ are totally illegible and without a magnifier sometimes it's impossible to read it ;)

Annoying, yes, but the rules of vowel harmony should help in sorting these out.

Timpul wrote:Oh, do you know the song Асыл әжем by Қарақат? It's really beautiful. Does anyone know the link to the lyrics or can write them here? If the translation isn't possible, please just tell me what it's about :)


Can't help with the translation, but here are the lyrics:

Асыл әжем, ғасыр әжем аңсаған
Сағынышым - сары ормандай самсаған
Әке болып жүргенімді ұмытып
Әлі күнге еркелеймін мен саған

Құлыңдаймын асыр салған аңғарда
Қозындаймын ойнақтаған албарда
Өзің барда қысылмаймын күлуге
Жылауға да қысылмаймын сен барда

Мен өзіңнен қабылдаппын сүюді
Мен өзіңнен қабылдаппын күюді
Сенің жаның жүрегіме ораулы
Менің жаным жаулығыңа түюлі

Тұра тұршы түзелгенше бұзығың
Жүре тұршы жалғанғанда үзігің
Маған дәулет неге керек, ақ әже-ау
Өзің бірге көре алмасаң қызығын?!

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Re: Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

Postby Timpul » 2008-08-12, 12:01

РАХМЕТ!

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Re: Kazakh (Қазақ тілі)

Postby akilbek » 2008-10-05, 0:51

Singer: Qaraqat Abeeldena (qaraqat means blackberry)
Music: Nurgeesa Tillendi
Lyrics: Qader Mirzali

My Precious Grandmother.

My precious grandmother, my graceful grandmother, I miss you;
My earning for you is as great as a mighty forest.
In spite of me being a parent myself;
Until this day I long you to caress me like a child.

I am as your colt that jumps around happily in the valley;
I am as your lamb that plays in the paddock.
I can freely laugh in your presence;
I am not ashamed to cry in front of you.

I have learned from you how to love;
I have learned from you what conscience is.
Your soul is wrapped in my heart;
My soul is pinned to your head scarf.

(This is mostly word for word translation. As is always the case with poetry, it was pretty hard to translate).


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