Azeri (Azərbaycan dili)

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zhiguli
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Postby zhiguli » 2007-11-24, 11:58

eskandar wrote:Is stollar pronounced any differently than *stolar? For instance, is the 'l' lengthened or anything, or is the doubling merely orthographical?


AFAIK yes.Doubled letters are pronounced double, they are also phonemic and serve to distinguish otherwise similar sounding words, i.e. güllər "flowers" vs gülər "he laughs" (aorist)

eskandar wrote:So in Northern Azeri, ev is used for houses and mənzil for apartments, whereas in Southern mənzil is used for houses and apartman for apartments? Is ev also used in Southern Azeri, or just understood?


According to my source it's also used for house/home, and is much more common than "manzel"

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Postby Qaanaaq » 2007-12-13, 19:33

zhiguli,

You did a great job here! How about reactivating the course? If there were more people interested in Azerbaijani we could even get our own sub-forum. The languages deserves it. And I’m definitely in! 8)

P.S. How does handwritten Ə ə look like?

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Postby eskandar » 2007-12-26, 19:39

There used to be a wonderful online dictionary at http://www.polyglot.az, but unfortunately it seems to have gone down and hasn't been back up in quite some time now. However, there is a software version which is quite useful. You can download it here. It can translate Azeri<->English, Azeri<->French, Azeri<->German, Azeri<Russian>Russian.

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Postby eskandar » 2007-12-28, 21:39

I have been puzzling over this sentence, taken directly from the Polyglot dictionary:

Mən dostum üçün çox darıxıram

The dictionary gives "I miss my friend very much" as its translation. I understand every word in the sentence except üçün. What does üçün mean? I can't find it in any dictionary, and I can't imagine it has anything to do with üçüncü. Also, why is dostum not in the accusative case?

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Postby eskandar » 2007-12-29, 2:57

Well, it turns out üçün means "for," which explains why dostum is not accusative. I wonder why üçün was not in either of the two dictionaries I consulted? Oh well.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-09, 7:15

edit: oops, seems this question was answered already, so never mind.

(strangely enough "üçün" does appear in the azeri>russian and azeri>french dictionaries in polyglot)

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Postby eskandar » 2008-01-09, 7:43

When I got the chance to ask my aunt about this expression, she hadn't heard it. It could be a Northern expression, or it could be that she doesn't remember that much Azeri these days :lol: When I asked her how to say "I miss you" in Azeri, she said they used a calque from Persian (ie "my heart becomes tight for you"). I can't remember how she said it, something like sizi ürəyim... something. I'll have to ask her again the next time I talk to her.

Zhiguli ağa, any chance you might post some more lessons? I've been searching for someone proficient in Azeri to be the mod for an Azeri forum here, to no avail.
Currently away from Unilang.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-09, 17:30

eskandar wrote:Zhiguli ağa, any chance you might post some more lessons? I've been searching for someone proficient in Azeri to be the mod for an Azeri forum here, to no avail.


Again, I'd like to but I can't promise anything since I haven't been studying Azeri for awhile and my contact with the language has been minimal at best...
Though if worse comes to worse you could just learn Turkish instead - it's more popular, there's a lot more material for it, it's close enough to be mutually intelligible with Azeri, and any gaps can be easily filled in with your knowledge of Persian.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-12, 3:42

Lesson 3


The verb "to be"

As in many languages, this one is irregular (as such it is probably the only irregular verb in Azeri)

in the present tense it's a suffix added to the end of the last word in a sentence.

The conjugation is as follows (by now you should have a good grip on vowel harmony so these will be given in the base back/unrounded vowel forms):

Mən -(y)am
Sən -san
O -dır
Biz -(y)ıq
Siz -sınız
Onlar -dır(lar)

So as an example let's take the word "müəllim" (teacher):

Mən müəlliməm
Sən müəllimsən
O müəllimdir
Biz müəllimik
Siz müəllimsiniz
Onlar müəllimdir(lər)

after words ending in a vowel a buffer consonant (y) is added before suffixes beginning in a vowel:

Mən tələbəyəm (tələbə = student)
Biz tələbəyik

etc.

For words ending in the "harmonizing" consonants q or k, these change accordingly when adding vowel-initial suffixes:

Balıq ("fish") Mən balığam I am a fish.
Sən balıqsan

Note:

Note:
1. The *singular* form of the noun is used regardless of whether the subject is singular or plural. So "Biz müəllimlərik" would be incorrect.
2. Since the pronoun is inherent in the ending the separate pronouns can be omitted:
(mən) həkiməm (I) am a doctor
3. the -dır ending, unlike in Turkish, is obligatory and can't be omitted. As for the -lar of the 3rd person plural, it's omitted for inanimate objects (AFAIK this also includes animals) and retained for animates (that is, people):
Onlar tələbədirlər They are students.
Onlar stoldur Those are _tables_.
4. the endings -sınız and -dır(lar) are shortened in colloquial pronounciation:
sınız > sız
dır(lar) > dı(lar)

For the negative the particle "deyil" is used. This is put after the last word in the sentence, and the personal suffix is attached to deyil:

Mən sürücü deyiləm I am not a driver

The endings are the same as in the affirmative, except in the third person, where they are omitted for inanimates and optional (but usually omitted in colloquial language) for animates:

Bu stol deyil This is not a table
Onlar həkim deyil (or deyildirlər) They are not doctors

Note: in colloquial language "deyil" often gets pronounced "döl"


The question particle

this is a vowel harmonizing suffix -mı added to the last word in the sentence (including other suffixes)

Sən tələbəsənmi?

Unlike Turkish, this is optional and is usually indicated by tone of voice (in fact I have met Azeri speakers from Iran who were completely unaware that such a suffix existed)
Also unlike Turkish, it is not written separately and comes after the second person suffixes
(Az. Sən tələbəsənmi > Tr. Sen öğrenci *misin*?)

Exercises:

1. write out the entire present tense conjugation (Mən ....-am, sən ...-san etc.) of the verb "to be" using the following words
a. şagird ("pupil")
b. fəhlə ("worker, labourer")
c. ovçu ("hunter")
d. sürücü ("driver")
e. riyaziyyatçı ("mathematician")

2. Do the same in the negative (Mən ...deyiləm etc. since the final word is invariable you may do this with only one of the above nouns)
(you may optionally do the same with the affirmative+question particle "ovçudurmu?")

3. Translate to Azeri (remember - the suffixed verb "to be" and "deyil" _always_ come last)

a. I am in the house.
b. I am not at university ("universitet")
c. It is on the table.
d. We are not in the cars.
e. This house is not expensive ("baha")

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Postby eskandar » 2008-01-18, 21:29

Dərs üçün çox təşəkkürlər, Zhiguli! Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond, I've been busy with school, but I'm eager to continue learning.

zhiguli wrote:Biz -(y)ıq

So as an example let's take the word "müəllim" (teacher):

Biz müəllimik


Why has -(y)ıq become -ik here? Is there some consonant harmony rule at work that I've overlooked?

Another thing I'm a little confused about is how do I know when vowel harmony is 2-way or 4-way? I assumed it was 2-way here because you had written müəlliməm, not *müəllimim as an example. But then I noticed ovçudurmu, not *ovçudırmı, and that really confused me. What's the rule?

Exercises:

1. write out the entire present tense conjugation (Mən ....-am, sən ...-san etc.) of the verb "to be" using the following words
a. Mən şagirdəm
b. Sən fəhləsən
c. O ovçudur
d. Biz sürücüyiq (or sürücüyik?)
e. Siz riyaziyyatçısınız

Would "He's a student" be "O şagirddir" or "O şagirdir"?

2. Do the same in the negative (Mən ...deyiləm etc. since the final word is invariable you may do this with only one of the above nouns)
(you may optionally do the same with the affirmative+question particle "ovçudurmu?")
a. Mən şagird deyiləm (şagirdəmmi? Would that be the correct way to ask "am I a student?")
b. Sən fəhlə deyilsən (fəhləsənmi?)
c. O ovçu deyil (ovçudurmu?)
d. Biz sürücü deyiliq (sürücüyiqmi?)
e. Siz riyaziyyatçı deyilsiniz (riyaziyyatçısınızmı?)

Why does "ovçudurmu" harmonize 'completely' but "fəhləsənmi" harmonizes 'incompletely'? In other words, why does -mı become -mu for "ovçudur" but only -mi for "fəhləsən" and not *-mə?

3. Translate to Azeri (remember - the suffixed verb "to be" and "deyil" _always_ come last)

a. I am in the house. - Evdəyəm
b. I am not at university - Universitetdə deyiləm
c. It is on the table - Stoldadır
d. We are not in the cars. - Maşınlarda deyiliq
e. This house is not expensive - Bu ev baha deyil
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Postby kalemiye » 2008-01-18, 22:39

How is ə pronounced?

What is the difference between q and k?
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Postby eskandar » 2008-01-18, 22:53

Zhiguli has provided a guide to pronunciation on the third page of this thread. ə is pronounced like the 'a' in US English "pad" (IPA æ).

As for 'k' and 'q', some of their usage is still a little confusing to me, but here's what Zhiguli wrote:

zhiguli wrote:k (к), - like english k, but it tends to get palatized near front vowels and even in some back vowel words (example - bakı 'baku', which sounds almost like bakyı)
g (ҝ), q (г) - both are pronounced more or less like g, but g is associated with front-vowel words and is more palatized, while q is associated with back vowel words and (in theory at least) does not palatalize even with front vowels. q corresponds to the arabic letter ق in loan words from that language.
at the ends of syllables in words of turkic origin, it gets pronounced like x. when it's found in the same position in arabic loans, it tends to get pronounced like a k.
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Postby kalemiye » 2008-01-18, 22:59

Thanks, I think I went reading so fast that I skipped that part of the post :oops:. Thanks for quoting it Eskandar!

I don't really understand how "q" is pronounced though :(. I know that in some areas of Turkey ğ is pronounced like a g that comes from the "back", would azeri "q" be like that sound? :)
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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-19, 8:53

eskandar wrote:Dərs üçün çox təşəkkürlər, Zhiguli! Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond, I've been busy with school, but I'm eager to continue learning.


dəyməz

eskandar wrote:
zhiguli wrote:So as an example let's take the word "müəllim" (teacher):

Biz müəllimik


Why has -(y)ıq become -ik here? Is there some consonant harmony rule at work that I've overlooked?

Another thing I'm a little confused about is how do I know when vowel harmony is 2-way or 4-way? I assumed it was 2-way here because you had written müəlliməm, not *müəllimim as an example. But then I noticed ovçudurmu, not *ovçudırmı, and that really confused me. What's the rule?


to recap:

zhiguli wrote:there are two kinds of vowel harmony, 2-way and 4-way.
2-way has only two alternatives, a/ə.
4-way is a bit more complicated, because the choice depends not only on whether a vowel is front or back, but also whether it's rounded or not.

therefore:

roots ending in a/ı get the suffix vowel ı.
" " " e/ə/i " " " " i.
" " " o/u " " " " u.
" " " ö/ü " " " " u.

when harmonizing suffixes, there is also a kind of 'consonant harmony' involving the letters k/q y/ğ.

words ending in q turn this into ğ when followed by a vowel initial suffix: bıçaq (knife) - bıçağı (his knife)
" " " k " " " y: ürək (heart) - ürəyi (his heart).
there is no change when adding consonant-initial suffixes: bıçaq > bıçaqlar (knives)

in suffixes containing one of these consonants, however, all four variations are possible:
çatacaq he will arrive (-caq - future tense forming suffix)
çatacağam i will arrive (-am first person ending)
gələcək he will come
gələcəyəm i will come


so basically suffixes that contain a/ə are two-way harmonizing, and those with ı/i/u/ü are four-way. in addition, suffixes containing k or q (which become y or ğ intervocalically) alternate depending on whether the vowel is front or back.
if this is still difficult to grasp i can write up some more exercises.

eskandar wrote:müəlliməm, not *müəllimim as an example.


this is a good illustration of the rules

müəllim-əm - with the two-way suffix is "i am a teacher"
müəllim-im, which is four-way, would mean "my teacher", that is - the possessive ending (which will be covered later)
so the kind of vowel in the suffix is the key.

eskandar wrote:d. Biz sürücüyiq (or sürücüyik?)


sürücüyük (four-way harmony+k/q alternation)

eskandar wrote:Would "He's a student" be "O şagirddir" or "O şagirdir"?


there is no consonant reduction when adding suffixes, so şagirddir is the correct form.

eskandar wrote:d. Biz sürücü deyiliq (sürücüyiqmi?)


deyilik*
sürücüyükmü*

eskandar wrote:Why does "ovçudurmu" harmonize 'completely' but "fəhləsənmi" harmonizes 'incompletely'? In other words, why does -mı become -mu for "ovçudur" but only -mi for "fəhləsən" and not *-mə?


well, it is complete. after ə the only option for four-way suffixes is i (see the table quoted above)
and again the kind of harmony in a suffix is fixed, so it won't magically change from 2- to 4-fold under any circumstances.

eskandar wrote:d. We are not in the cars. - Maşınlarda deyiliq


deyilik
Last edited by zhiguli on 2008-01-19, 9:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-19, 9:02

renata wrote:I don't really understand how "q" is pronounced though :(. I know that in some areas of Turkey ğ is pronounced like a g that comes from the "back", would azeri "q" be like that sound? :)


no, it's a normal g like in english.

the ğ sound (arabic غ) is spelled with ğ.

(though in southern (iranian) dialects q ق can and does get pronounced ğ.)

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Postby eskandar » 2008-01-19, 19:55

Düzəlişlər üçün təşəkkür edirəm. It looks like all of my questions were from the same misunderstanding of vowel and consonant harmony. I think I get it now; we'll see with the next set of exercises 8)
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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-21, 15:08

oops, just noticed a small typo here:

zhiguli wrote:roots ending in a/ı get the suffix vowel ı.
" " " e/ə/i " " " " i.
" " " o/u " " " " u.
" " " ö/ü " " " " u < should be ü.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-22, 4:06

[edit: repeat post]
Last edited by zhiguli on 2008-01-22, 4:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-01-22, 4:11

thanks to alijsh for the links to iranian sites about azeri, which i am copying from the other thread in the turkish forum:

http://www.sharemation.com/gajil11/dastoor-e-zaban.pdf
http://gayagizi3.blogfa.com/
http://sozluk.blogfa.com/
http://www.gajil.20m.com/maktab.htm

i also found this short grammar outline:

http://www.azatyurt.com/Azerbaijan%20Turkish.pdf

it's in azeri but i'm linking it anyway, in case it may be useful to someone. (if anyone needs any explanations or translations...i'll see what i can do.)

here is something about the azeri arabic standard:

http://www.azeri.org/Azeri/az_arabic/az ... andard.pdf

unfortunately it's all in azeri but there are enough examples there to see how it works.
as i mentioned in the other thread it does not follow the rules of ottoman turkish and thus gives a much more phonetic representation of the language.

Lesson 4

The genitive pronouns are as follows:

Mənim, sənin, onun, bizim, sizin, onların.

for the 1st person the ending is -im, for everything else it's -in.

the possessive suffixes are as follows

mənim -(ı)m my
sənin -(ı)n your
onun -(s)ı his/her/its
bizim -(ı)mız our
sizin -(ı)nız your
onların -(s)ı/ları their

these are all four-way harmonizing suffixes.
for the third person plural there are two possibilities; -(s)ı is used if the possessed noun is singular, -ları if it's plural:
onların it-i their dog
onların it-ləri their dogs
likewise, if the possessed noun with other pronouns is also plural it takes the plural suffix:
bizim itlərimiz - our dogs
the letters in brackets are variations used depending on whether the word ends in a consonant or a vowel. to illustrate, we'll use the consonant-final kitab ("book") and vowel-final meyvə ("fruit"):

mənim kitab-ım my book
sənin kitab-ın your book, etc.
onun kitab-ı
bizim kitab-ımız
sizin kitab-ınız
onların kitab-ı

mənim meyvə-m my fruit...
sənin meyvə-n
onun meyvə-si
bizim meyvə-miz
sizin meyvə-niz
onların meyvə-si

so as you can see, consonant-final words require a vowel-initial suffix, and vice-versa.

the full pronouns are of course optional and used mainly for emphasis.

the genitive of regular nouns is formed with the suffix -(n)ın; -nın after vowels, -ın after consonants. the possessed noun likewise takes the 3rd person possessive suffix:
adam-ın ev-i the man's house
ana-nın bağça-sı the mother's garden
this suffix can also be added to possessive suffixes:
ana-m-ın bağça-sı my mother's garden
or the plural ending:
adam-lar-ın mənzil-i the men's apartment

one exception: su ("water"), which has the buffer consonant -y- instead of -n-:

suyun dadı the taste of water ("water's taste")

to express possession ("i have x") the construction is noun+possessive suffix + var.

kitabım var i have a book (or the book) (lit. "my book is/exists")
böyük itin var you have a large dog

to do the same in the negative ("i don't have x") var is replaced by yoxdur (note: unlike turkish the -dur is necessary, in azeri "yox" alone means "no")

mənim itim yoxdur i don't have a dog ("my dog isn't")
sənin evin yoxdur(mu)? don't you have a house?

there's another, simpler possessive construction using the locative ending -da:

pul məndədir i have the money ("the money is on me")

to be continued...

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Postby zhiguli » 2008-02-29, 11:33

a very valuable resource that was passed on to me:

http://multimedia.peacecorps.gov/multim ... gelessons/

beginner lessons for would-be peace corps volunteers, it includes rare languages like bengali, georgian, kyrgyz, malagasy, and yes...azeri, all with sound files and full transcripts.

i don't think i will be continuing the lessons here, i'm really not liking how they're turning out like typical boring textbook lessons populated by tables and chairs and pencils and pens. instead, i''ll be adding grammar-related stuff to the wiki every so often...and biding my time until a real native speaker decides to appear.


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