Malayalam lessons

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-08, 1:11

So why were you really waiting for me to post here then? :P

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby rmanoj » 2018-01-08, 3:39

Hi,
There is no expression എന്റെയിൽ. You may be thinking of എന്റെ കൈയ്യിൽ, which I guess can sound like എന്റെയിൽ in colloquial pronunciation.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-08, 3:47

Oh, yes, I had forgotten to mention എന്റെ കൈയ്യിൽ. I have seen a few people online write എന്റെയിൽ, but indeed, I haven't seen it in written Malayalam otherwise.

Thanks! :)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby księżycowy » 2018-01-08, 10:52

vijayjohn wrote:So why were you really waiting for me to post here then? :P

Just to clog it up a bit with OT. :lol:

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 16:00

Today, as I said before, I'll talk about other ways to say 'no' and about the direct objects of verbs having to do with emotions.

I've said before that the way you usually say 'yes' in Malayalam is to repeat the main verb in a sentence. Similarly, to say 'no', we just use the negative form of that verb. Since most verbs in Malayalam are negated using ഇല്ല illa anyway, we can usually use ഇല്ല by itself instead of the entire negative form of the verb. However, when we're responding to a question about whether we want something and saying 'no', then we instead use the negative form of that verb, i.e. വേണ്ട vENDa.

A verb like വേണ്ട can take a direct object in accusative case even though the subject has to be in dative case. However, for some verbs that require the subject to be in dative case, the direct object (or at least, the direct object in the English equivalent) isn't necessarily in accusative case. For example, if you wanted to say 'I like him' in Malayalam, what you would literally say is 'I have a liking to/for him'. One way you could say this is എനിക്ക് അവന് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം ഉണ്ട് enikk avan oru ishTam uND(u). This could perhaps be ambiguous since both 'I' and 'him' are in dative case, so it could also mean 'he likes me' rather than 'I like him', although 'I like him' would probably be the more likely interpretation given the word order. oru ishTam may also be pronounced more like orishTam colloquially/when you're speaking casually or normally.

Another way you could say it that's not ambiguous is എനിക്ക് അവനോട് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം ഉണ്ട് enikk avanOT [oru ishTam]/[orishTam] uND(u). Here, അവനോട് avanOT(u) is in sociative case, and this sentence can only mean 'I like him', not 'he likes me'. These are not the only ways you can say 'I like him'; you could also say 'I felt a liking to him', i.e. എനിക്ക് അവന്/അവനോട് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം തോന്നി. enikk avan/avanOT oru ishTam thOnni. You could even just say എനിക്ക് അവന്/അവനോട് ഇഷ്ടമാ(ണ്). enikk avan/avanOT ishTamaa(N(u)).

And so, when Pareekkutty asks Karuthamma whether she likes him, he says:

കറുത്തമ്മ, എന്നോട് ഇഷ്ടമാണോ? karruththamma, ennOT ishTamaaNO?

Next time, maybe I'll post a lesson about how to say 'only' and how to talk about whether there's any point to doing something. :)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby rmanoj » 2018-07-03, 7:22

The "എനിക്ക് അവന് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം ഉണ്ട്" construction doesn't exist. You can use the accusative and say "എനിക്ക് അവനെ ഇഷ്ടമാണ്." But the construction with അവനോട് is better, particularly for romance.

And I prefer the spelling വേണ്ടാ―that's where it comes from, ആ being an old-fashioned negating suffix.

You can see it in poetry. There is a line in Kumaran Asan's വീണ പൂവ്: "ഗുണികളൂഴിയിൽ നീണ്ടുവാഴാ"
I.e. The virtuous/ those who have good qualities (ഗുണികൾ) in the world (ഊഴിയിൽ) will not live long (നീണ്ടുവാഴാ).
In Tamil they would add a personal ending to make it வாழார்.

You can also see it in in constructions like കാണാപ്പൊന്ന് 'unseen gold'.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-03, 12:24

rmanoj wrote:The "എനിക്ക് അവന് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം ഉണ്ട്" construction doesn't exist. You can use the accusative and say "എനിക്ക് അവനെ ഇഷ്ടമാണ്."

Weird, my dad seems to think it does, or at least that it's grammatical. Oh well. Thanks! :)

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby rmanoj » 2018-07-03, 12:50

vijayjohn wrote:
rmanoj wrote:The "എനിക്ക് അവന് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം ഉണ്ട്" construction doesn't exist. You can use the accusative and say "എനിക്ക് അവനെ ഇഷ്ടമാണ്."

Weird, my dad seems to think it does, or at least that it's grammatical. Oh well. Thanks! :)

Hmmm.. Maybe it's just a rare construction I haven't come across.

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Re: Malayalam lessons

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-04, 0:22

rmanoj wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
rmanoj wrote:The "എനിക്ക് അവന് ഒരു ഇഷ്ടം ഉണ്ട്" construction doesn't exist. You can use the accusative and say "എനിക്ക് അവനെ ഇഷ്ടമാണ്."

Weird, my dad seems to think it does, or at least that it's grammatical. Oh well. Thanks! :)

Hmmm.. Maybe it's just a rare construction I haven't come across.

I've started learning from this sort of thing just how much native speakers disagree on whether things are grammatical or not, and I suspect that might be what's happening here. അപ്പ also strongly disagrees with a lot of K. P. Mohanan's grammaticality judgments.


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