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Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2015-01-29, 18:06
by Meera
Yeah Vijay, I shared this one though because it plays music in each South Asian language and the presenter talks in English even though the songs are in Tamil, Sinhala, Malayalam etc. lol

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2015-01-29, 19:25
by vijayjohn
Yeah, thanks, I understand. :) I just posted the BBC links because you brought up the BBC and it reminded me of that, and that's pretty much all I know of from the BBC apart from what you just pointed out. :lol:

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2015-02-05, 18:55
by Meera
Lol well it doesnt hurt to have the links here :P BBC is cool because they have a lot of languages but I wish they more audio/video in some lol

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2015-03-12, 0:51
by TeneReef
SBS podcasts :whistle:

go to ''podcasts in your language''>

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2017-05-19, 19:01
by vijayjohn
I just noticed they don't have Telugu. :?

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2018-03-22, 12:22
by atalarikt
Anybody know what words in South Asian Sino-Tibetan languages are cognates with words in Chinese (any variants)?

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2018-03-22, 12:25
by vijayjohn
Lots of words, of course! Here's just one small set of examples.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2019-12-21, 6:36
by vijayjohn
I was going to create a new thread for this, but I decided to just dump it here since I'm not sure how this will generate any discussion. :P

Jeseri, also known by various names such as Jesri, Dweep Bhasha, or "Lakshadweep Malayalam," is the language variety spoken in most of Lakshadweep (with the exception of Dhivehi-speaking Minicoy Island). This is just a list of notes I had written down (by hand) on Jeseri from a phrasebook about it in Malayalam. All of the phonetic transcriptions of the Jeseri words are approximations because the book itself does not use IPA or anything similar, only Malayalam script:

Jeseri has a general change of *p > [f], e.g. something like [ˈfət̪ɯ] for 'ten', cf. Standard Malayalam പത്ത് [ˈpət̪ɯ]. The book says this was inspired by Arabic (in Malayalam, its exact wording is: "പകാരത്തിനു ഫകാരം നിയമേന കാണാം. ഇത് അറബിയുടെ പ്രേരണമൂലമാണു്.").

They list ഫുത്തം (something like /fut̪t̪am/) in Jeseri as meaning 'newness' (പുതുമ [puˈd̪uma] in Standard Malayalam) because of this sound change (not really sure what sound changes are involved in that word otherwise, though).

They have an example അയ് നാലിബാസ് ഫുത്തം ഫോലങ്ങല്ലീ? (something like /aj naːlibaːs fut̪t̪am foːlaŋalliː/) listed as meaning something like 'don't you see the newness in these clothes?' (or maybe '...this cloth?'; in Malayalam ഈ തുണിയിൽ പുതുമ കാണുന്നില്ലേ? [jiː t̪ʊˈɳijɪl puˈd̪uma kaːɳun̪n̪ɪlˈleː]).

The book also says that Jeseri preserves some words from Old Malayalam that have now disappeared from mainland Malayalam, such as ഫുള്ദ് (something like [fuˈɭɯd̪ɯ]) for 'sun' (in modern Malayalam സൂര്യൻ [ˈsuːɾjɛn]) from Old Malayalam പൊഴുത് /poɻut̪/.

On pages 10-11, they list the following as words that are shared with southern Malayalam (i.e. Malayalam as spoken in and around Thiruvananthapuram), but most of them are listed in my dictionary of Standard Malayalam:

ചില്വാനം [t͡ʃillɯˈʋaːnəm] is attested even in Standard Malayalam, and I don't think they define it in this book (the dictionary defines it as 'remainder, balance, odd sums, (colloq.) wife'. I guess they're implying that it means the same in Jeseri).
പടവു /paʈaʋu/ 'a type of big boat' ("ഒരു വലിയതരം തോണി"; this same word is listed in my dictionary as meaning a small boat rather than a big boat)
പാരാട്ടുക /paːɾaːʈʈuka/ 'to caress, fondle' ("ലാളിക്കുക," but this is listed in my dictionary with this meaning, too)
മുനിയുക /munijuka/ 'to get angry' ("കോപിക്കുക"; I might have to check this again because my dictionary lists /munajuka/ with this meaning)
പാടകാരി /paːʈakaːɾi/ 'the act of going alone' ("ഒറ്റപ്പെട്ടുപോകൽ"; this word is not listed in my dictionary).
ഉടമ്പറ /uʈampara/ 'room with only one door' ("ഒറ്റവാതിൽ മാത്രമുള്ള മുറി"; also not listed)
കിടു /kiʈu/ 'matted palm leaves' ("മെടഞ്ഞ ഓല"; listed in my dictionary with this meaning though defined in Standard Malayalam as "ഓലച്ചെറ്റ")
പട്ടാച്ചി /paʈʈaːt͡ʃi/ 'the lower part of the ??? of a coconut tree' ("തെങ്ങിന്റെ കുലഞ്ഞിയുടെ താഴത്തെ ഭാഗം"; not sure what a കുലഞ്ഞി is. പട്ടാച്ചി is not listed in my dictionary)
ചൂലി /t͡ʃuːli/ 'pregnant woman' (listed in the book as "ചൂലി (ശൂലിന)" and defined as "ഗർഭിണി"; I'm guessing ശൂലിന is either Jeseri or Southern Malayalam and pronounced something like [ˈɕuːlɪna]. ചൂലി is listed with this meaning in my dictionary, too; perhaps they meant that ചൂലി is Southern Malayalam and ശൂലിന is the Jeseri form)
ഓശാരം /oːɕaːɾam/ 'mercy, free gift' (listed in the book as "ദയ, സൗജന്യം" but in the dictionary as 'free gift, concession' or "സൗജന്യം, ദാനം")
വക്കുക /ʋakkuka/ 'to walk around with a light(?) catching fish at night' ("രാത്രിയിൽ വെളിച്ചവുമായി നടന്നു മീൻ പിടിക്കുക"; false friend with Standard Malayalam വക്കുക [ʋəˈkʊga] 'to roast in a fire, cause to dry by exposure')
കടിയാമത്തെ /kaʈijaːmat̪t̪e/ 'last' ("അവസാനത്തെ (കടശി)"; presumably "കടശി" [kəˈɖəɕi] is etymologically related to this and/or more widely used in Southern Malayalam than in other varieties such as my own, where I have never heard it, although it is listed in the dictionary as well but കടിയാമത്തെ is not. Compare also கடைசி /kaʈajci/ ([kaˈɖasi]?) in Tamil)

On the next page (p. 11), they list the following loanwords from English, not shared with Standard Malayalam:

കാറ്റ് from English heart; this is a false friend with Standard Malayalam, where കാറ്റ് [ˈkaːttɯ] is a native Dravidian word meaning 'wind'
ജങ്ക്‌ളി (something like /d͡ʒankɭi/) from jungle
ലാട്ടം /laːʈʈam/ < lantern
കബാട്ട് /kabaːʈʈ/ < cupboard
And even ബോട്ടുക്കിളി /boːʈʈukkiɭi/ < boat cleavance

Also listed here are what they call തത്ഭവങ്ങൾ i.e. tadbhavas:

അതിക്കുറുമ (something like [əˈd̪ikʊrʊma]), listed as meaning "അതിക്രമം (കുസൃതിത്തരം)." അതിക്രമം is pronounced [əd̪iˈkrəməm], means 'offense, outrage, injustice, trespass', and is presumably the word that Jeseri അതിക്കുറുമ comes from. I'm not entirely sure what കുസൃതിത്തരം [kʊˈsrɯd̪it̪ɛɾəm] means, but it's probably at least similar in meaning; കുസൃതി [kʊˈsrɯd̪i] by itself means 'mischief'. Shouldn't it be listed as "കുസൃതിത്തരം (അതിക്രമം)," like "അവസാനത്തെ (കടശി)" above, i.e. with the definition outside parentheses and the presumed cognate inside parentheses, as with "അവസാനത്തെ (കടശി)" above (see under /kaʈijaːmat̪t̪e/)?
ഇടിച്ച (something like [jɪˈɖɪt͡ʃa]) 'loud sound' ("ഉച്ചത്തിലുള്ള ശബ്ദം") < ഇടിയൊച്ച [jɪˈɖijɔt͡ʃa] 'sound of thunder'
പാടകം (something like [ˈpaːɖəgəm]) 'anklet' ("കാൽച്ചിലമ്പ്‌") < പാദകടകം [ˈpaːd̪əgəɖəgəm]

Also listed on the same page, and again on p. 13, is this example of methathesis (തിരിൾ /t̪iɾiɭ/ < തളിരു് [t̪əˈɭɪɾɯ]) 'sprout, shoot, bud'. On page 12, the word കബറാക്കുക /kabaraːkkuka/ is listed as meaning 'to pay attention' (ശ്രദ്ധിക്കുക [ɕrəd̪ˈd̪ʱikʲʊga], more often pronounced more like [ɕrəd̪ˈd̪ikʲa]). Other examples of metathesis listed on p. 13 are:

ബദറെ /bad̪are/ < വെറുതെ [ʋɛrɯˈd̪e] 'ordinary, just, only, merely, no particular reason, in vain, uselessly, gratis, without payment'
കസൂറുക്ക /kasuːrukka/ < കർമ്മോസ [kərˈmoːsa] 'papaya'
ശീകരം /ɕiːkaɾam/ ([ˈɕiːgəɾəm]?) < ജീരകം [ˈd͡ʒiːɾəgəm] 'cumin'

കസൂറുക്ക /kasuːrukka/ is a curious example IMO. It's also translated into Standard Malayalam as പപ്പയ്ക്ക [pəˈpɛkʲa]. My dictionary does not have കർമ്മോസ [kərˈmoːsa] but does define പപ്പയ്ക്ക [pəˈpɛkʲa] as കർമ്മൂസ് [kərˈmuːs]. /kasuːrukka/ looks slightly more complicated than just metathesis to me, more like [kərˈmuːs] > [kəsˈmuːr] > [kəˈsuːr], with the -/kaː/ 'fruit (especially unripe), seed' suffix.

കെല്ലുക /kelluka/ in Jeseri is listed as meaning കെല്പുണ്ടാക്കുക [kɛlpɔɳɖaːkʊga] 'to strengthen' in Standard Malayalam.

Somewhere around p. 18, they start talking about cases. 'I' (i.e. the singular nominative case first person singular pronoun) in Jeseri is ന്നാം /nnaːm/ cf. Standard Malayalam ഞാൻ [ɲaːn]. I didn't write this down, but IIRC, 'my' in Jeseri is എന്നാ, so something like [ɛnˈnaː] as opposed to Standard Malayalam എന്റെ [ˈɛnde]. 'Your' is നിന്നാ, so I guess [n̪ɪnˈnaː], instead of നിന്റെ [ˈn̪ɪnde]. 'His' I believe is ഓന ([ˈoːna]?) instead of അവന്റെ [əˈʋɛnde], and 'her' (genitive case) I think is similarly ഓള [ˈoːɭa] instead of അവളുടെ [əˈʋəɭʊɖe] ~ [əˈʋəɭɖe]. 'What's your name?' is നിന്നാ ഫേർ എന്നൈന്റ്? i.e. something like [n̪ɪnˈnaː feːr ɛnˈnəjndɯ], listed with the meaning നിന്റെ പേർ എന്താണ് [n̪ɪnˈde peːɾ ɛn̪ˈd̪aːɳɯ] in Standard Malayalam.

On p. 20, they say that the locative case is expressed in Jeseri using the suffix -ന്റ് (I guess -/nt/? This resembles one of the forms for the genitive case suffix in Standard Malayalam) rather than the Standard Malayalam suffixes/morphemes -ഇൽ -/il/ and -കൽ /kal/. (In the original Malayalam: ആധാരിക. ഇതിന്റെ പ്രത്യയമായ 'ഇൽ' 'കൽ' എന്നിവ തീരെയില്ല. പ്രയോഗത്തിൽ ന്റ് എന്നൊരു രൂപം കാണാൻ കഴിയും). For example, നിങ്ങേന്റ് ആരേലും ബരോണേ! /niŋeːnt aːɾeːlum baɾoːɳeː/ means 'one of you should come!' (in Standard Malayalam നിങ്ങളിൽനിന്നു് ആരെങ്കിലും വരണേ! [n̪ɪˈŋəɭɪln̪ɪn̪n̪ ˈaːɾɛŋgɪlʊm ʋɛɾəˈɳeː]).

On p. 21, ബമ്പത്തം /bampat̪t̪am/ is listed as meaning 'intelligence' (മിടുക്ക് [mɪˈɖʊkɯ]), ഓൻ ആണ്ടേം ബബം /oːn aːɳʈeːm babam/ as meaning 'he is a smart man' (അവനാണു് സമർത്ഥൻ [əʋɛˈnaːɳɯ səˈmərt̪ʰɛn]), and ഓൻ ഹറുക്കത്തുകാരനാണ്ടേം /oːn harukkat̪t̪ukaːɾanaːɳʈeːm/ as meaning 'he is smart' (അവൻ മിടുക്കനാണു് [əˈʋɛn mɪɖʊˈkɛnaːɳɯ]). I'm guessing ഹറുക്കത്ത് (I guess pronounced something like [həˈrʊkət̪ɯ]) comes from Arabic حركة ḥaraka, but in Jeseri, it means 'intelligence' (like ബമ്പത്തം, I suppose).

On p. 23, they have the following sentence, which I couldn't help laughing upon reading (unfortunately, since I was on a quiet floor in the library!): അങ്ങ ഓട ഓൻലച്ച് നാന 'he had stayed at our house', probably pronounced something like [əˈŋa ˈoːɖa oːn lət͡ʃɯˈnaːna] (translated into Standard Malayalam as ഞങ്ങളുടെ വീട്ടിൽ അവൻ ഇരുന്നിട്ടുണ്ടായിരുന്നു [ɲəˈŋəɭʊɖe ˈʋiːʈɪl əˈʋɛn ɪɾʊn̪n̪ɪʈɔɳˈɖaːjɾʊn̪n̪u]).

Finally, on p. 25, they list the following words for 'crab' in Jeseri (in Standard Malayalam ഞണ്ട് [ˈɲəɳɖɯ]):

അലഗം /alagam/
അലോം /aloːm/
അബലം /abalam/
അലഗൻ /alagan/

as well as the word അലമ്പൽ /alampal/, which they define as 'problem, noise' (കുഴപ്പം, ബഹളം, പ്രശ്നം [kɔˈɻəpəm], [bɛˈɦɛɭəm], [prɛɕˈnəm]).

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2020-12-21, 9:08
by Saim

Re: General Discussion

Posted: 2020-12-26, 7:18
by vijayjohn
He actually answers that question for you in the video itself! It's consistent with what I have heard of Jews speaking Malayalam so far; to me, they sound just like Gentile relatives and family friends of mine (apart from the Hebrew words in this video):

"Shalom, my name is Thapan Dubayehudi; I am now residing in Ernakulam near Kochangadi. What I am speaking now is Jewish Malayalam a.k.a. Judeo-Malayalam. In Hebrew, we call this Malayalam Yehudit and such. You're probably wondering, 'What's different about it? Dude, it isn't any different from normal Malayalam. It's exactly the same!' And that's true; Judeo-Malayalam isn't very different at all. There is no one among the remaining Jews here in Kerala who speaks pure Judeo-Malayalam or is well-versed in it. You can hear Judeo-Malayalam in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel; there's even a Malayalam Department there, and it's a department that's doing a lot of research (into it).

So what's the difference? As far as the difference between Judeo-Malayalam and Malayalam goes, many people say the writing system they use is the Hebrew alphabet. There is no truth to this. It's the Malayalam alphabet itself that we use to write Judeo-Malayalam, not the Hebrew alphabet. Then what is the difference? The only difference in Judeo-Malayalam is nothing but some expressions, some words, some loan...loanwords. For example, if a person, a nefesh leaves his body (i.e. if someone dies), we say, we say he 'became shalom.' Or if we get into a fight with someone, we say, we say we will never have a relationship in the olam. Or if we want to scold our kids, if that kind of context occurs, we'd call them things like hammurs. Those kinds of loanwords or expressions are the only distinct things Judeo-Malayalam has.

Another characteristic that distinguishes it is songs, Jewish songs. There are plenty of songs that are either in Hebrew or in a mixture of Hebrew and Judeo-Malayalam. You could say if you like that that is the greatest asset of Judeo-Malayalam. The most world-renowned song among them is 'Ma Navu.' They call, the song called 'Ma Navu' is, among Jews, world-renowned. It's entirely in Hebrew, but it's a Cochini Malabari song. 'Ma Navu' is a Malabari Jewish song (i.e. a song from Kerala's oldest Jewish community). There are many modifications, tunes, versions, and such of it in Europe, America, and such, but if you want to hear the authentic Malayalam version of it, you can hear it if you go to the Kadavumbagam Synagogue on Market Road in Ernakulam. Alternatively, you can hear it in some Cochini moshavs in Israel. This is Judeo-Malayalam's greatest asset. These kinds of things are all that distinguish Judeo-Malayalam. Moreover, you could say if you like that Judeo-Malayalam is the only Indian language connected to Jewish culture. Or not 'if you like'; that's the truth! So that's Judeo-Malayalam; that's all I have to say about Judeo-Malayalam. Shalom."