vijayjohn wrote:In Dravidian languages (including Malayalam, Tamil, and Hent's Telugu example), 'full' isn't an adjective like in English. Instead, we use a verb meaning 'to become full'. Literally, our expressions for 'my stomach is full' mean '(my) stomach became full'. (In Malayalam and Telugu, it's definitely grammatical to include the 'my' part, but this doesn't seem to be the case in Tamil). In Tamil (well, in Centamil ), '(my) stomach is full' would be வயறு நிறைந்தது.
vijayjohn wrote:I think that Telugu sentence is pronounced something like [naː kəɖuʋu niɳɖin̪d̪i].
Hent wrote:Stomach is kadupu not kaduvu.
dEhiN wrote:From the little I know in Tamil, I'm pretty sure you could include the 'my' part but it's probably option. Like I could probably say எனது வயறு நிறைந்தது.
So is Telugu kadupu cognate with Tamil vayaru?
vijayjohn wrote:.rmanoj wrote:What do you mean? The various small kingdoms in Kerala didn't use Malayalam at court?
How many of them had courts in the first place? How long did most kingdoms in Kerala last? My understanding is that the set of kingdoms within modern-day Kerala was constantly shifting due to the endless family feuds among the Nairs and that some of them were effectively city-states. "Kingdom" may not even be an accurate term in all cases.
I mean, ഐതീഹ്യമാല, for example, is mostly set in the 18th century as far as I'm aware and has plenty of untranslated dialogue in Sanskrit, frequently hinting at an assumption on the part of the author that any literate person would be able to understand it. The second story in it is about the kingdom of Kottayam, where the prince visits the court of a neighboring kingdom where he has to speak in Sanskrit, but he makes a language blunder and his own mother is so outraged she nearly murders him. If Sanskrit had that much administrative importance at such a late period, I don't see what the motivation for using Malayalam would have been, especially when Malayalam was apparently not even used very often for writing prose until the mid-19th century.
vijayjohn wrote:dEhiN wrote:From the little I know in Tamil, I'm pretty sure you could include the 'my' part but it's probably option. Like I could probably say எனது வயறு நிறைந்தது.
vijayjohn wrote:(I'm sure you've told me about this before, but எனது? Really? I thought it was என்...I'm so confused as to what the difference between the two is).
rmanoj wrote:It's வயிறு in Tamil, by the way, not வயறு.
dEhiN wrote:vijayjohn wrote:dEhiN wrote:From the little I know in Tamil, I'm pretty sure you could include the 'my' part but it's probably option. Like I could probably say எனது வயறு நிறைந்தது.
I'll confirm that with my SL friend and let you know.vijayjohn wrote:(I'm sure you've told me about this before, but எனது? Really? I thought it was என்...I'm so confused as to what the difference between the two is).
So as far as I can tell, it's a dialect thing between SL and India. If I'm not mistaken, the centhamizh for 'my' is என்னுடைய, which is the 1st person singular oblique pronoun என் + the genitive suffix -உடைய.
Indian Tamils shorten that in kodunthamizh to என், which always used to confuse me since that's really the oblique pronoun. (But then again, they do that with the other genitive pronouns, using the oblique form as a kodunthamizh equivalent of the centhamizh genitive pronoun).
From what I know, Sri Lankan Tamils shorten it in kodunthamizh to எனது. (I'm actually not entirely sure if a shortening process took place, or if enathu came from some other source). I don't know if the same is applied to all other genitive pronouns, mostly because I've never heard all of them spoken. But I feel like I have heard உனது, அவனது, அவளது. So the plural genitive pronouns might be different, or I've just never heard/noticed them.rmanoj wrote:It's வயிறு in Tamil, by the way, not வயறு.
rmanoj wrote:Sorry, I've had a busy week at work so haven't replied until now.
dEhiN wrote:It's வயிறு in Tamil, by the way, not வயறு.
rmanoj wrote:Anyway, I'm pretty sure all three forms have been used for the genitive in literary Tamil since early times: the bare oblique stem என், along with எனது and என்னுடைய. None of them are contractions of any of the others.
In spoken Indian Tamil, I think என்னுடைய becomes என்னோடெ, while எனது is mostly confined to the literary language.
vijayjohn wrote:I've never understood what the difference is between என் and என்னுடைய, except that என்னுடைய can be used predicatively.
rmanoj wrote:Predicatively? I don't see how. Do you mean என்னுடையது (i.e. എൻറേത്)?
I don't know that there is any difference in normal usage (should there be?)
dEhiN wrote:rmanoj wrote:So here you see உடை(ய) used in the sense of உள்ள.
உள்ள அர்த்தம் என்ன?
rmanoj wrote:நின்னுடை வாழ்க்கை
Is நின் a Literary Tamil version of உங்கள்?
vijayjohn wrote:It's such a relief for me to finally have someone to ask these kinds of questions to.
vijayjohn wrote:dEhiN wrote:உள்ள அர்த்தம் என்ன?
Something like 'having'.
vijayjohn wrote:That looks like it's probably an older Tamil equivalent of உன். We use நின் in that sense in literary Malayalam.
vijayjohn wrote:I just use Google Input Tools. But that's only easy for me because I'm on a desktop computer...
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