Bengali ( বাংলা)

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-03-30, 16:49

Meera wrote:Oh sorry i read it wrong :P Its pretty similiar. Mostly the main different thing is grammar, some vocab and accent. for example instead of "sab" for all, in Bangla it would be "shob". Many words are different but to hard to figure ot. Like tumi is you instead of tum and aapni isntead of aap. I think bengali has more sanskritic words.
I'm not sure about that - Hindi is definitely more Sanskritized than Urdu, and Bengali is spoken in a Muslim country. But it's hard to say for now. I might look it up later.

Yesterday I got a book on Hindi, Urdu and Bengali! I just need to learn the Bengali script. I've already looked over the Hindi parts.

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby eskandar » 2010-03-31, 3:00

Talib wrote:
Meera wrote:I think bengali has more sanskritic words.
I'm not sure about that - Hindi is definitely more Sanskritized than Urdu, and Bengali is spoken in a Muslim country. But it's hard to say for now. I might look it up later.

Meera is right. It has little or nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with the development of language. There are many millions of Hindu Bengalis in India and Bangladesh, and they speak Bengali the same way that Muslim Bengalis do. Not all languages spoken by Muslims absorb huge amounts of Arabic/Persian vocabulary, the way Urdu has. Bengali has retained most of its Indic, Sanskritic character, and its literature tends to borrow 'high vocabulary' from Sanskrit, even when written by Muslim authors. At most 5-8% of Bengali vocabulary is from foreign sources (including Arabic, Persian, English, and other languages). Compare this to Urdu, where over 50% of the vocabulary comes from foreign languages. This is not uncommon for languages whose speakers are majority Muslim; other languages like Kurdish and Pashto also have relatively few Arabic/Persian loans.

On the other hand, prior to the development of the artificially-Sanskritized Hindi language (partially engineered by the British), Muslims and Hindus who now speak "Hindi" and "Urdu" both spoke what we would probably label as "Urdu" today. For several hundred years, Hindus used just as many Arabic and Persian loanwords as Muslims, and most Hindus could only read the Arabic-derived script and were illiterate in Devanagari. The Sanskritized "shudh [pure] Hindi" that exists today would have been just as alien to Indian Hindus a few centuries ago as it is to Pakistani Muslims today.
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-03-31, 4:01

Thanks for explaining that Eskander :D
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-03-31, 16:00

Hindi still has many Perso-Arabic loans, but not nearly as many as Urdu.

I suppose I just assumed Bengali would be similar to Urdu in that respect. Call it an educated guess.

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Rémy LeBeau » 2010-03-31, 23:41

eskandar wrote:
Talib wrote:
Meera wrote:I think bengali has more sanskritic words.
I'm not sure about that - Hindi is definitely more Sanskritized than Urdu, and Bengali is spoken in a Muslim country. But it's hard to say for now. I might look it up later.

On the other hand, prior to the development of the artificially-Sanskritized Hindi language (partially engineered by the British), Muslims and Hindus who now speak "Hindi" and "Urdu" both spoke what we would probably label as "Urdu" today. For several hundred years, Hindus used just as many Arabic and Persian loanwords as Muslims, and most Hindus could only read the Arabic-derived script and were illiterate in Devanagari. The Sanskritized "shudh [pure] Hindi" that exists today would have been just as alien to Indian Hindus a few centuries ago as it is to Pakistani Muslims today.


I'm not sure I agree with this. Using the terms Hindi and Urdu to refer to what people 'speak' is very misleading. Hindi and Urdu are better used for describing styles of writing (regardless of script- by this I mean you can still write 'Urdu' in Nagari script and vice versa), and you can rest assured that hardly anybody actually speaks the way that they write unless they are reading a written speech. The reality is that (written) Urdu and (written) Hindi are just as alien to their respective illiterate speakers as they are to the 'other'. Illiterate Urdu-speaking Pakistanis and illiterate (ethnic) Hindustani Muslims generally have no idea of how to work with Arabic plurals (which are employed with ridiculous frequency in 'Urdu' texts) of Arabic-derived words (which are also applied to non-Arabic words sometimes) or foreign loanwords (including English words) that are used in writing instead of more commonly spoken native equivalents, and the same is just as true of illiterate 'Hindi' speakers who are more familiar with Indianised foreign loanwords (again not just Arabic, but also Portuguese and English) that are part and parcel of the spoken language rather than new words derived from Sanskrit and Prakrit roots that tend to be used in written Hindi.

Or, to summarise in a single sentence, neither Hindi or Urdu are accurate representations of the language they attempt to standardise.

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby eskandar » 2010-04-01, 0:11

Rémy LeBeau wrote:I'm not sure I agree with this. Using the terms Hindi and Urdu to refer to what people 'speak' is very misleading. Hindi and Urdu are better used for describing styles of writing (regardless of script- by this I mean you can still write 'Urdu' in Nagari script and vice versa), and you can rest assured that hardly anybody actually speaks the way that they write unless they are reading a written speech. ...

Or, to summarise in a single sentence, neither Hindi or Urdu are accurate representations of the language they attempt to standardise.

Fair enough. I wanted to reply to Talib using the terms he was using, and in common parlance, the vernacular 'Hindustani' spoken in both India and Pakistan is often called "Urdu" (however inaccurately), which is what I meant by Muslims and Hindus who now speak "Hindi" and "Urdu" both spoke what we would probably label as "Urdu" today. But you're right that both terms are more descriptive of formal writing and not really representative of ordinary speech.
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Old Ashes » 2010-04-08, 7:35

I've taken an interest in Bengali myself recently, so it's nice to see so many resources available! :D Those talking about the Teach Yourself books, I own a few for other Indian languages (Beginner's Hindi, Punjabi) and they are some of the best TY books in my opinion. Of course these ones seem to be a lot harder to find :(

Off topic question, but what does "TAC" mean? I see it in a few sigs and I'm not quite sure what it is :P
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-04-08, 21:14

Nice to see another Bengali Learner! TAC means Total anilhation challenge which is to go a whole yr learning a langauge. It really works too :P
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-05-22, 18:53

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-06-23, 3:31

Tumi koto je dure-beautiful song by Asha and RD Burman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUaEsn4NLoc
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Mutusen » 2010-07-21, 17:10

Meera wrote:
Katarinka wrote:I love Bengali script. So i hope i will beginn to learn it soon. Looks better than devanagari to me

yeah it does and in ll honesty its much eaiser to read then devangari

(Responding to a 6 month-old message. :D).
I've recently learned devanāgarī, and I've just read the Wikipedia article about the Bengali script. The Bengali script looks more difficult to me: the inherent vowel can be pronounced [o] or [ɔ], some vowels have the same pronunciation (ই/ঈ, উ/ঊ), so do some consonants (apparently ঞ, ণ and ন are all N), some consonant conjuncts have are not pronounced like the sum of their components, etc. What do you think?
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-07-21, 17:22

I've learned both (though my knowledge of Bengali is rusty) and I find it a lot more difficult than Devanagari for the reasons you stated. The greatest difficulty is the irregular conjuncts, and also how the vowels aren't always represented accurately.

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-07-22, 5:10

Mutusen wrote:
Meera wrote:
Katarinka wrote:I love Bengali script. So i hope i will beginn to learn it soon. Looks better than devanagari to me

yeah it does and in ll honesty its much eaiser to read then devangari

(Responding to a 6 month-old message. :D).
I've recently learned devanāgarī, and I've just read the Wikipedia article about the Bengali script. The Bengali script looks more difficult to me: the inherent vowel can be pronounced [o] or [ɔ], some vowels have the same pronunciation (ই/ঈ, উ/ঊ), so do some consonants (apparently ঞ, ণ and ন are all N), some consonant conjuncts have are not pronounced like the sum of their components, etc. What do you think?


Yes i know, but the letters are more clearer in Bengali
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby mōdgethanc » 2010-07-22, 17:03

I don't think they are. I think Bengali looks like chicken scratches. Devanagari is simpler.

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-08-03, 4:31

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-08-03, 4:34

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-08-20, 17:44

Shuvro Chad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0J40rlRUc

jochana debo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riasLH6qKYI
this is just an awesome song!!!! i love her voice
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-08-21, 17:18

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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby Meera » 2010-08-24, 18:39

this site has a bangla tv channel :
http://www.etv.co.in/e-tv-5/index.php
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Re: Bengali ( বাংলা)

Postby TeneReef » 2010-08-29, 21:13

I've never tried Bengali but it sounds funny with all that rounded vowels: Bengoli :lol:

Biposho Posu is nice tho. :D

---
my conclusion:

easiest grammar: Hindi/Urdu
easiest pronunciation: Hindi/Urdu, Telugu
easiest script to write: Tamil
best correspondence from text to sound: Hindi, Malayalam
worst correspondence from text to sound: Tamil
best looking script: Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu
most frustrating: Tamil (because of diglossia), Kannada (their speakers have low esteem)
the funniest: Bengoli :mrgreen:
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