Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-21, 12:22

Formiko wrote:The Mon-Khmer and Sino-Tibetan families are one of my least studied languages, but Dzongkha and Tibetan are largely mutually unintelligible. :)

That's the impression I got backwhen I was looking into some Dzongkha and Tibetan. Dzongkha is actually one of the most fascinating languages of the Himalaya to me. Not that I don't like Tibetan, but on a pronunciation stand point alone Dzongkha is more interesting.
Hopefully I'll get back to these two some day! :)

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2011-01-31, 5:04

Formiko wrote:No, but Chinese is every where. It's almost as if China allows them their "cute little language", as long as they realize that Chinese is king. While you probably can't kill the spoken language, it was rare to find a young person (less than 30 yrs old) who spoke Tibetan BETTER than Chinese. Everyone spoke Tibetan, but it seemed like those days are numbered. Parents will most likely teach their kids only Chinese. (I'm sorry, I don't remember which dialect.I'm assuming everyone spoke Mandarin)


That's very sad. I certainly hope they can hang onto their languages long enough for the government's attitude to change. By the way, here's an article about the recent protests over the use of Chinese vs. Tibetan in schools: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/world ... china.html

From what I understood, Tibetan is the main language of most elementary schools in Tibet, but by the time students reach high school, Chinese is the dominant language. Most of the Tibetans I talked to in Kham/Western Sichuan spoke some form of Sichuanese/Southwest Mandarin when communicating with me or a Chinese, but I never noticed any of them use Chinese to speak with other Tibetans.

I'm hoping to start learning Tibetan again soon since I want to travel back to China and Tibet later this year. My biggest obstacle in studying Tibetan has been the daunting, archaic orthography. I'm more interested in the spoken languages of Tibet than written Tibetan, but I'm worried that all the different romanization systems for Tibetan will make it hard to progress much further with spoken Tibetan without also learning the written language :?

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-31, 10:34

yangbowen wrote:I'm hoping to start learning Tibetan again soon since I want to travel back to China and Tibet later this year. My biggest obstacle in studying Tibetan has been the daunting, archaic orthography. I'm more interested in the spoken languages of Tibet than written Tibetan, but I'm worried that all the different romanization systems for Tibetan will make it hard to progress much further with spoken Tibetan without also learning the written language :?

The one book on Tibetan I have, Manual of Standard Tibetan is an excellent textbook for learning spoken Tibetan in my opinion. But like you said, it requires you to learn the writing system. The beginning chapters have romanization with the script, but later lessons have only the Tibetan script.
It does do a nice job of explaining the writing system though. Overall I highly recommend it.
Though I don't know if it's what your looking for . . .

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2011-01-31, 21:47

księżycowy wrote:The one book on Tibetan I have, Manual of Standard Tibetan is an excellent textbook for learning spoken Tibetan in my opinion. But like you said, it requires you to learn the writing system. The beginning chapters have romanization with the script, but later lessons have only the Tibetan script.
It does do a nice job of explaining the writing system though. Overall I highly recommend it.
Though I don't know if it's what your looking for . . .


Actually, that's the book I have too. I agree; it is an excellent textbook, although I've only gotten through the first few chapters since I gave up on learning the script. I like the detailed grammatical explanations and the supplementary videos with dialogs and vocab that can be downloaded as podcasts from itunes. If I take up Tibetan again I'll probably just end up trying to learn the script so that I can work through the book, as much as I've avoided doing that. :? I'm also considering getting Fluent Tibetan, but some reviewers complained that it is too slow-paced and doesn't have enough vocabulary.

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-31, 21:58

yangbowen wrote:Actually, that's the book I have too. I agree; it is an excellent textbook

Cool! 8-)
although I've only gotten through the first few chapters since I gave up on learning the script. I like the detailed grammatical explanations and the supplementary videos with dialogs and vocab that can be downloaded as podcasts from itunes. If I take up Tibetan again I'll probably just end up trying to learn the script so that I can work through the book, as much as I've avoided doing that. :? I'm also considering getting Fluent Tibetan, but some reviewers complained that it is too slow-paced and doesn't have enough vocabulary.

I never really got to much into the book myself. Though I certainly will use it (hopefully within the year, or next) to start it up again.
I didn't know they had videos and podcasts on iTunes, I'll be sure to check that out when I get back into it, thanks! :D

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2011-02-01, 19:03

księżycowy wrote:I didn't know they had videos and podcasts on iTunes, I'll be sure to check that out when I get back into it, thanks! :D


You're welcome!

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2011-02-01, 21:52

I thought someone might find this helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_pinyin

The first chart shows the different combinations of consonants transliterated in Wylie and their corresponding IPA and Tibetan pinyin spellings.

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-06-14, 15:27

Bump!
Here's an intermediate level textbook/reader for Tibetan:
http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/colle ... ktales.pdf

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Postby Unknown » 2011-06-25, 17:11

Starlin wrote:Hello! I have to learn Tibetan as my second Asian language at my university. It's more Classical Tibetan, though, because almost everything we learn from is Buddhist texts... I'm now in China for my year abroad and have to learn Tibetan on my own, which is quite impossible, I should say, complex as it is :roll: Thanks for those links!


Sveiki, jei reikite kokią pagalbą mokausi tibetiečių, galite susisiekti su manimi per Skype. Ačiū. :)
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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Unknown » 2011-06-25, 17:14

n/a
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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Unknown » 2011-07-04, 20:46

Hello folks I am going to be posting some Tibetan lessons on here, so I hope you enjoy them:


Lesson 1: To be Verb

In Tibetan, the "to be" verb has three translations:

རེ་ (ray) - for adjectives, nouns, and improper verbs
ཚ་ (du) - for locational and proper verb purposes
ཡི་རེ་ (yöray) - for fact expressions (can be used equivalently and/or locationally)

Ex.
ཚ་་ེགརེ་ (diy yak ray) - This is a yak
ཁོ་ཚེཆན་ཚ་ (ko ter chig du) - He has a book (literally: to him book there is)
བི་རེ་ེགཡི་རེ་ (bö la yak yöray)- There are yaks in Tibet

Now the verb tense prefixes:

བ་- (ba-) = past (for all persons)
་ན་- (giy-) = future (for 1st person)/present (for all persons)
་ན- (gir-) = future (for 3rd person)


Then, the verb tense suffixes:

1st/2nd person

-ཡིན་ (-yin) = for both past and future
-ཡི་ (-yö) = for present

3rd person

-རེ་ (-ray) = for both past and future
-་ (-y) = for present


Ex.

ང་ག་རེསེབ་ཡིན་ (ngay kala say bayin) - I ate food
ཁོ་ག་རེསེ་ནེ་ (ko kala sa giray) – He will eat food



Now, to form yes or no questions, look for the question word in the sentence, and then answer with the given "to be" ending that matches. Here is a chart of this:


Question Word---du-gay---yö-bay---re-bay---yin-bay--yö re-bay
Yes----------------du--------yö-------ray-------yin-------yö-ray
No-----------------min-du--may-----ma-ray---men-----yö ma-ray


Ex.

Yak chen-po yö re-bay? – Are yaks big?
Yö-ray/ yö ma-ray – Yes/No

Kayrangday shugi yöbay? – Do you live here?
Yö/may – Yes/No


End of lesson one
Last edited by Unknown on 2011-12-04, 19:26, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2011-07-14, 22:52

Cesare M. wrote:Hello folks I am going to be posting some Tibetan lessons on here, so I hope you enjoy them

ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ།
Thujeche!

སེ་ས་རེ་ལགས། ཁེད་རང་ག་ན་ད་ཡིན་པས།
Cesare la, khyerang kanada yin bä?

May I ask how you learned Tibetan? I have recently taken up studying Tibetan again with some great books, but progressing past the basics is difficult.

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Unknown » 2011-07-14, 23:58

yangbowen wrote:
Cesare M. wrote:Hello folks I am going to be posting some Tibetan lessons on here, so I hope you enjoy them

ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ།
Thujeche!

སེ་ས་རེ་ལགས། ཁེད་རང་ག་ན་ད་ཡིན་པས།
Cesare la, khyerang kanada yin bä?

May I ask how you learned Tibetan? I have recently taken up studying Tibetan again with some great books, but progressing past the basics is difficult.



Tashidelek, ngay peo gay ter nay dang video nay chang bayin. Yang, ngay Kanada nay yin, dang nam shi Kanada la yago yin. :) Ngay peo gay mang lessons chay giyin, dang peo gay khag po ray; yin nay ngay kayrang yago chay giyin hago ray. ;)

PS: Kayrang peo gay yago ti bayin! :)


Hello, I learned Tibetan through books, and videos. Also, yes, I am from Canada, and the weather in Canada is good. I'll be posting more Tibetan lessons, and Tibetan is difficult, but I know you'll do well. ;)

PS: You wrote good Tibetan! :)
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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby heinrich s. » 2011-07-15, 20:16

Apart from what Translator2 said, how are these lessons meant to be helpful? Do they assume prior knowledge of the language? Because I can't make heads or tails of even the first one.

For example, Cesare M., could you explain to me how ཚ་ (du) is both the verb "to be" in certain circumstances and yet means "to have" in the phrase "ཁོ་ཚེར་ན་ཚ་ (ko ter chig du) - He has a book?"

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Unknown » 2011-07-15, 20:29

n/a
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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-15, 20:31

It might also be helpful to explain the script. You've posted the sentences in Tibetan script the way they normally would be, but to learners who don't know the script it's helpful to know how to read.

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Unknown » 2011-07-15, 20:42

księżycowy wrote:It might also be helpful to explain the script. You've posted the sentences in Tibetan script the way they normally would be, but to learners who don't know the script it's helpful to know how to read.



Yes that's a good idea. I'll do that in the next lesson if I have time. :)

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2011-07-16, 6:31

I can give a brief intro to the Tibetan alphabet. Here an acute accent mark ʹ indicates high tone, and a grave accent mark ` indicates low tone. The first consonants of the first five rows are unaspirated and have high tone. The second consonants of the first five rows are strongly aspirated and have high tone. The third consonants of the first five rows are moderately aspirated and have low tone.

ཀ་ ཁ་ ག་ ང་
gá khá kà ngà
ཅ་ ཆ་ ཇ་ ཉ་
já chá cà nyà
ཏ་ ཐ་ ད་ ན་
dá thá tà nà
པ་ ཕ་ བ་ མ་
bá phá pà mà
ཙ་ ཚ་ ཛ་ ཝ་
dzá tshá tsà wà
ཞ་ ཟ་ འ་ ཡ་
shà sà à yà
ར་ ལ་ ཤ་ ས་
rà là shá sá
ཧ་ ཨ་
há á

The vowels i, e, and o are written as marks above ཨ་ or a consonant, and u is written as a mark below ཨ་ or a consonant:

ཨི་ ཨུ་ ཨེ་ ཨོ་
i u e o

The vowel sounds ä, ö and ü also exist, but they do not have separate written forms.

Tibetan spelling is extremely complicated due to its very old orthography. One word may be spelled the same way throughout all the Tibetan regions but pronounced very differently according to the language/dialect of the speaker. This means that in Standard Central Tibetan, words are seldom spelled exactly as they sound. There are consonant clusters, prefixes, suffixes, superscribed letters and subscribed letters that can affect aspects of pronunciation like tone and aspiration or may not be pronounced at all. I was extremely intimidated by all this when I first began studying Tibetan, but unfortunately there are almost as many systems of phonetic transcription for Tibetan as there are resources for studying Tibetan. Once you learn some of the rules regarding sound changes, it's actually not as terrible as it might sound :wink:

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Unknown » 2011-07-16, 11:37

Thanks yangbowen for posting the alphabet. :) Yes spelling is very complicated.

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Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2011-07-16, 11:58

Though as Formiko posted a bit back, it is also acceptable to spell things phonetically. Thus the complexity can be over looked. It just depends on which style you want to go with. Though I would be inclined to believe that the average Tibetan would be fine with phonetic spelling (perhaps even favoring it).

Personally I a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to these sort of things myself.


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