Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Moderator: vijayjohn

User avatar
Formiko
Posts: 13388
Joined: 2008-01-25, 10:21
Real Name: Dosvdali
Gender: male
Location: Ashghabat
Country: TM Turkmenistan (Türkmenistan)

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Formiko » 2010-02-02, 6:13

Dreki wrote:Those characters are gorgeous. Depending how I do with icelandic & german, I might just try to learn Tibetan later. :) Thank you for bringing it up and all the resources!


Tibetan actually sounded like Japanese to me. It had the same pauses, and it definitely wasn't "clipped" like Vietnamese or Thai.
Tibetan spelling is difficult. While it's not "correct",spelling words phonetically is like spelling cat -> kat.
People will understand it. (by the way, cat is shimi,་ཞིམི་)
Cherokee Indian STILL improving German.
Getting reacquainted with Swahili Msaada!
In no particular order
[flag]eo[/flag][flag]de[/flag][flag]es[/flag][flag]yo[/flag][flag]chr[/flag][flag]ru[/flag]

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-02, 12:46

Dreki wrote:Those characters are gorgeous. Depending how I do with icelandic & german, I might just try to learn Tibetan later. :) Thank you for bringing it up and all the resources!

Not sure who your saying thanks to, but I'll take at least some of it! :twisted:
And though I wouldn't necessarily say that Tibetan letters are gorgeous, I do like the way they look (aesthetically speaking of course).

Formiko wrote:Tibetan actually sounded like Japanese to me. It had the same pauses, and it definitely wasn't "clipped" like Vietnamese or Thai.
Tibetan spelling is difficult. While it's not "correct",spelling words phonetically is like spelling cat -> kat.
People will understand it. (by the way, cat is shimi,་ཞིམི་)

I would agree that Tibetan does not sound like Vietnamese or Thai. It kind of sounds like a mix of Mandarin and Hindi to my ears :shock: . I guess that's because of the tones and aspiration.

And yes, Tibetan spelling is very difficult. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it! That's why I figured I'd post some stuff on it (after I get a handle on it of course 8-) ).

It is interesting though, what you were saying about spelling things phonetically. What exactly did you mean by that? Spelling Tibetan as it is pronounced, even if the 'traditional' spelling is different then spoken?

User avatar
Dreki
Posts: 61
Joined: 2010-01-27, 21:53

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Dreki » 2010-02-02, 18:04

Does Tibetan use it's own alphabet, or something else? i'm new to non-latin alphabets.
księżycowy wrote: Not sure who your saying thanks to, but I'll take at least some of it! :twisted:
And though I wouldn't necessarily say that Tibetan letters are gorgeous, I do like the way they look (aesthetically speaking of course).

The thanks is to whoever thinks they deserve the credit. So you can have it if you'd like :D *gives you plenty of thanks*

And aesthetics/beauty/etc is subjective, so I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me, but I happen to think that what I've seen is gorgeous. But that word 'ཞིམི་' is so pretty to me.

Formiko wrote: I would agree that Tibetan does not sound like Vietnamese or Thai. It kind of sounds like a mix of Mandarin and Hindi to my ears :shock: . I guess that's because of the tones and aspiration.

I don't know what hindi sounds like- but I looked up a song and I agree that it sounds more like mandarin than japanese to me.
TAC- Focus: [flag]is[/flag] Also: Image

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-02, 20:22

Dreki wrote:Does Tibetan use it's own alphabet, or something else? i'm new to non-latin alphabets.

Yes, Tibetan has it's own 'alphabet,' though it would be more of a syllabary then an alphabet. It is similar in function (and somewhat in shape) to the various syllabic alphabets in India. It is alphabet that represents consonants with vowels in one character, though it is not a true syllabary like Amharic, Japanese kana or the like, that is, most vowels are represented by a separate diacitical mark 'attached' to the character. And it is also used to write Dzongkha, the language of Bhutan (which is linguistically similar to Tibetan). [Sorry about the lengthy answer :whistle: ]
And aesthetics/beauty/etc is subjective, so I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me . . .
I agree, though I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't agree. Out of the many different scripts I've seem languages written in I've grown fond of a few.

User avatar
Dreki
Posts: 61
Joined: 2010-01-27, 21:53

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Dreki » 2010-02-02, 20:37

księżycowy wrote:
Dreki wrote:Does Tibetan use it's own alphabet, or something else? i'm new to non-latin alphabets.

Yes, Tibetan has it's own 'alphabet,' though it would be more of a syllabary then an alphabet. It is similar in function (and somewhat in shape) to the various syllabic alphabets in India. It is alphabet that represents consonants with vowels in one character, though it is not a true syllabary like Amharic, Japanese kana or the like, that is, most vowels are represented by a separate diacitical mark 'attached' to the character. And it is also used to write Dzongkha, the language of Bhutan (which is linguistically similar to Tibetan). [Sorry about the lengthy answer :whistle: ]

Lengthy answers are great, no apology. :)

Is it right to assume that in ''ཞིམི་' the swirly on top is the vowel representation of 'i' in Tibetan, then?
TAC- Focus: [flag]is[/flag] Also: Image

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-02, 22:47

Dreki wrote:Is it right to assume that in ''ཞིམི་' the swirly on top is the vowel representation of 'i' in Tibetan, then?

Yup.

I'll try to get a script 'lesson' (I use the term 'lesson' loosely, as usual) either later today or tomorrow.
Last edited by księżycowy on 2010-02-03, 0:29, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-03, 0:28

Ok, here is the first set of notes on my series of notes on the Tibetan Script.
Have fun reading!
And as usual, any problems please feel free to let me know.

User avatar
Dreki
Posts: 61
Joined: 2010-01-27, 21:53

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Dreki » 2010-02-03, 4:03

Oh wow, that's really complicated. :shock: I think I'll be focusing on Icelandic for now and wait until I can devote a bit more time to tibetan. Thanks for posting this, though, it looks really useful. The notes were great for explaining how to pronounce, too. :D I've got your notes and script on my computer for when I can focus on it more. Thank you!
TAC- Focus: [flag]is[/flag] Also: Image

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-03, 19:53

Dreki wrote:Oh wow, that's really complicated. :shock: I think I'll be focusing on Icelandic for now and wait until I can devote a bit more time to tibetan. Thanks for posting this, though, it looks really useful. The notes were great for explaining how to pronounce, too. :D I've got your notes and script on my computer for when I can focus on it more. Thank you!

No problem, happy to help, as always.
Keep checking back for more, cause there's a lot more on the way! :wink:

User avatar
Riptide
Posts: 836
Joined: 2008-12-08, 23:00
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Riptide » 2010-02-07, 19:00

I found this site which helps with learning the characters if you want to check it out: http://www.digitaldialects.com/Tibetan.htm
Image
Unilang Language Codes
Skype chats (ask to be added):
Austronesian Languages, Romance Languages, and Main UL
Main Languages of focus: Costa Rican Spanish (es-cr) Spanish, Tagalog (tl) Tagalog, Malagasy (mg) Malagasy
Other Languages: Cebuano (ceb) Cebuano, Romanian (ro) Romanian

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-02-07, 22:03

Riptide wrote:I found this site which helps with learning the characters if you want to check it out: http://www.digitaldialects.com/Tibetan.htm

Great link. I'm surprised too, 'cause it goes into some things other websites on the alphabet I've seen don't. Though the site doesn't go over everything, so I'll continue with my notes. Speaking of which:

User avatar
Dreki
Posts: 61
Joined: 2010-01-27, 21:53

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Dreki » 2010-03-24, 6:14

I don't know if this is a silly question- but I was looking into tibetan and it seems like it has a lot of religious significance and I don't really know about the culture... Is it bad to learn a language just because it looks beautiful?
TAC- Focus: [flag]is[/flag] Also: Image

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-24, 20:19

Dreki wrote:I don't know if this is a silly question- but I was looking into tibetan and it seems like it has a lot of religious significance and I don't really know about the culture... Is it bad to learn a language just because it looks beautiful?

It's as good a reason as any. People learn languages for many reasons. Just because Tibetan culture is fundamentally religious [Buddhist to be precise] and their language reflects that doesn't mean that anyone has to have a 'religious' reason to learn Tibetan. Though it seems as though your worried about offending the people that speak the language because of this (or something like that)? I think they'd just be happy that you know some Tibetan, and not too worried about it, but then again this is my opinion (and obviously I'm not Tibetan [nor Buddhist]).

[Though I'm sure they might appreciate the gesture :) ]

User avatar
Dreki
Posts: 61
Joined: 2010-01-27, 21:53

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Dreki » 2010-03-24, 21:18

księżycowy wrote: It's as good a reason as any. People learn languages for many reasons. Just because Tibetan culture is fundamentally religious [Buddhist to be precise] and their language reflects that doesn't mean that anyone has to have a 'religious' reason to learn Tibetan. Though it seems as though your worried about offending the people that speak the language because of this (or something like that)? I think they'd just be happy that you know some Tibetan, and not too worried about it, but then again this is my opinion (and obviously I'm not Tibetan [nor Buddhist]).

[Though I'm sure they might appreciate the gesture :) ]


That is mostly it. Buddhism is interesting to me, but not to a serious degree and I get pretty nervous about things that involve religion because I don't want to insult anyone by accident. It probably doesn't help that what seems to be a fairly important bit of buddhism, the Om Mani Padme Hum, was butchered in an american novel I read that also ignored the meaning behind it- and I really don't want to risk coming off like that.

I know some cultures are pleased when non-natives learn any of their language, but others aren't patient when people don't know it very well, so even if they're pleased by the effort it doesn't really make a difference.
TAC- Focus: [flag]is[/flag] Also: Image

yangbowen
Posts: 37
Joined: 2008-09-14, 19:04
Real Name: Steve
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2010-03-24, 21:53

Dreki wrote:I don't know if this is a silly question- but I was looking into tibetan and it seems like it has a lot of religious significance and I don't really know about the culture... Is it bad to learn a language just because it looks beautiful?


I think księżycowy is right. In my experience, Tibetans are appreciative if you know a few words of Tibetan, and they won't expect you to be Buddhist anyway, so no worries :) However, if you do begin studying Tibetan just out of linguistic curiosity, you might become interested in Tibet's religious culture later on, as it is very unique...

I wish I had more time to study Tibetan. It turned out to be a very difficult language for me :?

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-24, 23:39

Dreki wrote:That is mostly it. Buddhism is interesting to me, but not to a serious degree and I get pretty nervous about things that involve religion because I don't want to insult anyone by accident. It probably doesn't help that what seems to be a fairly important bit of buddhism, the Om Mani Padme Hum, was butchered in an american novel I read that also ignored the meaning behind it- and I really don't want to risk coming off like that.

I know some cultures are pleased when non-natives learn any of their language, but others aren't patient when people don't know it very well, so even if they're pleased by the effort it doesn't really make a difference.

Point taken. Buddhism does seem have a fairly structured system of respect and hierarchy (especially in countries which have Confucian influences as well, though Tibet isn't one). Though as far as Tibet, I don't think that anyone who really be offended by your learning of their language. Though I don't claim to be an expert on Tibet of Tibetan Buddhism (though I have studied religious studies extensively back in college, mostly Christianity though. But I did take a few world religion courses. Damned if I remember any of it now though :shock: !). I do respect your wish to be cultural sensitive though. I suppose my greatest advice I suppose would be to study some Tibetan Buddhism/culture and see if your reasons for studying Tibetan match with that, but that might be a little too much work . . . :?
Sorry that may not have been much of an answer . . . :doggy:

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[EDIT: Just noticed the post by yangbowen, good add!]

User avatar
Dreki
Posts: 61
Joined: 2010-01-27, 21:53

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Dreki » 2010-03-25, 3:03

I have looked a bit into it- I started getting concerned because most of the things I've found on learning Tibetan mention how it's a useful language for religious purposes and talked primarily about the religion. I'm a lot better at looking into the mythology and stuff behind religion than looking into the current practices, and even if I do I won't always know how the actual people feel about it. :/

yangbowen wrote: However, if you do begin studying Tibetan just out of linguistic curiosity, you might become interested in Tibet's religious culture later on, as it is very unique...

I imagine I might as well, but I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't offend anyone in case I didn't. :) No point in learning a language if all you're going to do is insult the speakers.

I wish I had more time to study Tibetan. It turned out to be a very difficult language for me :?

I imagine it will for me, too. I haven't seriously gotten into it (although I've saved all of księżycowy notes for when I can :D). I might do Chinese first. I need a language for university, don't feel like doing german any more, and chinese seems like it'd be good to try and learn because it's so foreign to english.
TAC- Focus: [flag]is[/flag] Also: Image

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13123
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-25, 15:14

Yeah, sorry for essentially dropping off the Tibetan thread here. I do mean to continue with my notes (especially the ones on the writing system), however I'm not currently learning Tibetan. I'll get back to it :) , though it might take me a while . . . :cry:

yangbowen
Posts: 37
Joined: 2008-09-14, 19:04
Real Name: Steve
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby yangbowen » 2010-03-26, 17:57

Dreki wrote: I imagine I might as well, but I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't offend anyone in case I didn't. :) No point in learning a language if all you're going to do is insult the speakers.


I understand what you mean. I wouldn't worry about it too much though. Like I said, in my experience Tibetans seem appreciative if you know a little bit of their language. I had to use Chinese to communicate with the Tibetans I met in Sichuan/Kham, but they seemed to like it when my western friends and I could say things like "trashi dele" or when we asked them how to say something in their language, even if our pronunciation was bad. I have never been to Tibet proper, but I have heard that Tibetans in Lhasa are even more encouraging about foreigners speaking Tibetan, and sometimes try to teach foreign tourists how to say things in Tibetan even if the tourist already knows how to say the thing in Chinese. So I don't think Tibetans would be offended by your interest in their language. Just be respectful and avoid breaking cultural taboos if you ever go to a Tibetan region and you should be ok :)

It doesn't look like there are any native speakers of Tibetan on unilang...too bad, as they would know better than I would. It's nice that there is a thread for Tibetan though...

User avatar
Sean of the Dead
Posts: 3884
Joined: 2008-10-11, 17:51
Real Name: Sean Jorgenson
Gender: male
Location: Kent
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Tibetanབོད་སྐད་/Dzongkhaརྫོང་ཁ

Postby Sean of the Dead » 2010-03-26, 18:19

If anyone would care to know, there are several native Tibetan speakers on Lang-8, I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could get one or more over here, or at least ask them questions about the culture and language. :wink:
Main focuses: [flag]kw[/flag] [flag]he[/flag]
Sub focus: Plautdietsch
On my own: [flag]is[/flag]


Return to “South Asian Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest